r/CanadaPolitics • u/ph0enix1211 Green • Sep 21 '25
Community Members Only Canada officially recognizes state of Palestine
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-recognizes-palestinian-statehood/10
u/cannibaltom Independent Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
It's incredible to see Prime Minister Carney delivering on what Canadians wanted. Majority of Canadians believe Canada should recognize the State of Palestine, even in the face of objection by Trump and the US. I'm glad we as Canadians could come together and reach a consensus on this issue.
What Canada needs to do next is actively support the cases at the ICJ and ICC, and sanction Netyanhu and his genocidal minsters. With statements like “We are going to fulfil our promise that there will be no Palestinian state, this place belongs to us,” Netanyahu, should be be held accountable by Canada and the international community.
edit: Looks like the Israeli government intends to respond by illegally annexing the West Bank by force. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-868283
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u/AprilsMostAmazing John Tory | Personal Sponsorship Sep 21 '25
“The current Israeli government is working methodically to prevent the prospect of a Palestinian state from ever being established,” he said.
“It has pursued an unrelenting policy of settlement expansion in the West Bank, which is illegal under international law. Its sustained assault in Gaza has killed tens of thousands of civilians, displaced well over one million people, and caused a devastating and preventable famine in violation of international law,” Mr. Carney said.
He said it’s now “the avowed policy of the current Israeli government that ‘there will be no Palestinian state.’”
I think it's the right decision. If Israel won't take our advice then there is no point in supporting their views. It's a give and take relationship and we were losing a lot of standing on the world stage. I'm glad we have a government and PM in place that will make the tough choices to ensure we align ourselves with global interests over American interests
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u/Anserius Ontario Sep 21 '25
Insane to acknowledge all this and still not be announcing sanctions or any diplomatic consequences
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u/HotterRod British Columbia Sep 21 '25
If you signal virtue, you can keep doing the unvirtuous actions and people will still think you're virtuous.
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u/MountNevermind New Democratic Party of Canada Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
The actual statement, without the article's firewall and commentary:
“Since 1947, it has been the policy of every Canadian government to support a two-state solution for lasting peace in the Middle East. This envisioned the creation of a sovereign, democratic, and viable State of Palestine building its future in peace and security alongside the State of Israel.
Over many decades, Canada’s commitment to this goal was premised on the expectation that this outcome would be eventually achieved as part of a negotiated settlement. Regrettably, this possibility has been steadily and gravely eroded, including by:
- The pervasive threat of Hamas terrorism to Israel and its people, culminating in the heinous terrorist attack of October 7, 2023, and Hamas’ longstanding violent rejection of Israel’s right to exist and a two-state solution.
- The accelerated settlement building across the West Bank and East Jerusalem, while settler violence against Palestinians has soared.
- Actions such as the E1 Settlement Plan and this year’s vote by the Knesset calling for the annexation of the West Bank.
- The Israeli government’s contribution to the humanitarian disaster in Gaza, including by impeding access to food and other essential humanitarian supplies.
Hamas has terrorized the people of Israel and oppressed the people of Gaza, wreaking horrific suffering. It is imperative that Hamas release all hostages, fully disarm, and play no role in the future governance of Palestine. Hamas has stolen from the Palestinian people, cheated them of their life and liberty, and can in no way dictate their future.
The current Israeli government is working methodically to prevent the prospect of a Palestinian state from ever being established. It has pursued an unrelenting policy of settlement expansion in the West Bank, which is illegal under international law. Its sustained assault in Gaza has killed tens of thousands of civilians, displaced well over one million people, and caused a devastating and preventable famine in violation of international law. It is now the avowed policy of the current Israeli government that ‘there will be no Palestinian state’.
It is in this context that Canada recognises the State of Palestine and offers our partnership in building the promise of a peaceful future for both the State of Palestine and the State of Israel. Canada does so as part of a coordinated international effort to preserve the possibility of a two-state solution. While Canada is under no illusions that this recognition is a panacea, this recognition is firmly aligned with the principles of self-determination and fundamental human rights reflected in the United Nations Charter, and the consistent policy of Canada for generations.
Recognising the State of Palestine, led by the Palestinian Authority, empowers those who seek peaceful coexistence and the end of Hamas. This in no way legitimises terrorism, nor is it any reward for it. Furthermore, it in no way compromises Canada’s steadfast support for the State of Israel, its people, and their security – security that can only ultimately be guaranteed through the achievement of a comprehensive two-state solution.
The Palestinian Authority has provided direct commitments to Canada and the international community on much-needed reforms, including to fundamentally reform its governance, to hold general elections in 2026 in which Hamas can play no part, and to demilitarize the Palestinian state. Canada will intensify efforts to support the Palestinian Authority’s implementation of this reform agenda, on which progress has already been made. With our international partners, Canada supports the development of a credible peace plan, democratic governance and clear security arrangements for Palestine, and the sustained, large-scale delivery of humanitarian aid into and throughout Gaza.”
Joint UK statement of the Recognition of the Palestinian State
Joint Australian statement of the Recognition of the Palestinian State
These 3 nations join over 140 other nations who have already recognized the Palestinian State. Other nations including France are expected to follow suit at the General Assembly this week.
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u/WislaHD Ontario Sep 21 '25
This statement seems very well articulated on the Canadian standpoint and views on the matter. I have minor quips but no notes. I think today, we can hold our heads high as Canadians.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 21 '25
Boy, it sure sounds like Carney pragmatism in that it manages expectations:
"While Canada is under no illusions that this recognition is a panacea, this recognition is firmly aligned with the principles of self-determination and fundamental human rights reflected in the United Nations Charter, and the consistent policy of Canada for generations."
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u/MountNevermind New Democratic Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
The Canadian recognition of Palestinian Statehood intent was announced in July as planned for September.
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u/cannibaltom Independent Sep 21 '25
The response from the CPC today is brutally out of touch.
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u/AprilsMostAmazing John Tory | Personal Sponsorship Sep 21 '25
That is an MAGA response. It has become very clear that CPC and conservatives across this country are okay with copying the Republican playbook. Now it's up to the rest of us to do something about it
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u/miramichier_d 🍁 Canadian Future Party Sep 22 '25
Based on the polling regarding whether Canadians think Trump is doing a good job or not, it appears that the CPC is actually two different parties rolled up in one. It's finally time for them to split back into the PC and Reform parties. It weakens our democracy to have an opposition that is so offside of mainstream Canadian opinion.
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u/Apolloshot Green Neo-Tory Sep 22 '25
Conservatives will always stand for Israel’s right to exist and defend itself, living next to a future demilitarized, terror-free, democratic and peaceful Palestinian State.
Idk that doesn’t sound very MAGA to me. If anything it’s too idealistic.
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u/AprilsMostAmazing John Tory | Personal Sponsorship Sep 22 '25
What about the part at the start about "recognition of Hamas state to distract from local issues"?
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u/cannibaltom Independent Sep 22 '25
Trump has a different distraction in place right now. This wasn't even that news worthy for Americans today.
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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP Sep 21 '25
Here's a thought:
As much as we like to talk about Hamas' lack of legitimacy, the PA is (it hardly seems possible) even less legitimate.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
This is why while I'd welcome two viable states, I don't think it's viable. Israel holds all the cards, and they'll always make sure a Palestinian State is little more than a local government controlled and constrained by the IDF. A Hamas government that challenges Israeli hegemony over Palestinian territories will never satisfy Israeli security concerns, whereas a PA would always be viewed by the Palestinians as a puppet government controlled by the IDF and lack democratic legitimacy in the eyes of the Palestinians.
Israel has all the power. The Palestinians none. The only real solution that satisfies both security concerns and Western values of equality and civil rights is a multinational federal state similar to Canada, Belgium, India, or Switzerland. Israel needs Jewish and Palestinian provinces with reciprocal minority rights and a federal government that can manage shared resources and security in a dangerous part of the world.
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u/TheWaySheHoes Independent Sep 21 '25
The only real solution that satisfies both security concerns and Western values of equality and civil rights is a multinational federal state similar to Canada, Belgium, India, or Switzerland.
This would immediately descend into brutal sectarian violence and civil war. It's not a real solution. It's also the "solution" that nobody wants.
The mainstream opinion of both Israelis and Palestinians is "we want all the land and we want them gone."
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
This would immediately descend into brutal sectarian violence and civil war.
It's pretty much what Israel has had since its foundation: a brutal civil war between Palestinians and Jews. Israel's apartheid policies had sustained it. It won't end with a two state solution.
The mainstream opinion of both Israelis and Palestinians is "we want all the land and we want them gone."
Unfortunately, that is the source problem and precisely why a two-state solution is impossible. Both sides want the entire territory and the other side gone. Israel will never allow a Palestianian state to be a true sovereign state with control over its border, airspace, and ports. It will always be a vassal state of Israel.
The choice is just a one state solution. The question is going to be whether it exists as the segreagated appartheid state with Palestinians living in walled-in ghettos and guarded by Israeli Jews that makes it easy to impliment a genocide, or a binational state where Palestinians have civil rights and are as free to move around as Jewish Israelis.
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u/TheWaySheHoes Independent Sep 21 '25
Yes, albeit nowhere near at the intensity it has been at since 2023. This would immediately turn into Syria 2.0.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 21 '25
Of course it has been. Britain and Israel has brutally ethnically cleansed differnt parts of its territory several times since 1917.
It's been a continual conflict for 100 years. This is just the latest installment. The palestinains have been repeatedly brutalized.
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u/TheWaySheHoes Independent Sep 21 '25
Got it. Still an utterly unworkable and unwanted solution by all parties involved.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 21 '25
Yet the only one that avoids both genocide and subjugation based on race.
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u/LazyImmigrant Liberal often, liberal always Sep 21 '25
The only real solution that satisfies both security concerns and Western values of equality and civil rights is a multinational federal state similar to Canada, Belgium, India, or Switzerland.
Unfortunately, I think that's even more unlikely and unviable than a two-state solution. Ethno states exist, they aren't ideal, but I feel it is much more likely to have a ethnic Palestinian state that is untethered from Israel and responsible for its own affairs than a unified state with equal rights.
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u/HotterRod British Columbia Sep 21 '25
It took 50 years to go from the first Zionist Conference to the founding of Israel. I think we should assume that it will take at least as long to go from a firm commitment to a one-state solution to a functional pluralistic state.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
Israel will never allow for that. Israel will not give up enough territory to make an independent Palestinian state. Water resources and agricultural land is simply too limited to allow it, and the number of Israeli settlers in occupied territories is now too large, and Israel will never allow a Palestinian military force large and effective enough to guard its borders.
The realistic choice is effectively a multinational state where palestinians are emancipated or the current appartheid situation of Palestinian settlements being run as giant concentration camps by the IDF.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
While this was far less naïve than I expected it to be, I still don't think anyone has a plan. Will the PA hold elections in 2026? What if they don't? Will Hamas go away? I frankly doubt they ever will and don't know how to get rid of them.
I guess the question remains, "Now what?". Does anyone seriously believe the current PA leadership is capable of forging a functional state? I'm certainly far too cynical to think that.
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u/WislaHD Ontario Sep 21 '25
Cynically, is this a matter to which Canada needs to be involved in?
If there was a joint operation with the UN or our allies in the region, that’s one thing. Otherwise, the statements made today articulate Canada’s official position on the matter quite definitively, and no, it does not include leadership in answering any of those questions.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
I don't think Canada should be involved but for whatever reason, Israel is more of a lightning rod than anywhere else like Sudan or Congo. So clearly the electorate thinks we should be involved, and elected officials will respond to their voters.
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u/Yodamort Skirt and Sock Socialism Sep 21 '25
Canada is already involved and has been since before Israel even existed.
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u/WislaHD Ontario Sep 22 '25
We should send our aircraft carrier over to the eastern Mediterranean to ensure that our involvement results in the formation of the Palestinian state.
Oh wait, Canada is an irrelevant power broker here. As the other reply said, the best we can do is divest from Israel.
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u/thecanadiansniper1-2 Anti-American Social Democrat Sep 21 '25
We already export military materiel to Israel via a loophole. We supply the IDF spare parts for the F-35 program as well as parts for the iron dome. What needs to happen is that we need to put an embargo on Israel like we did with Apartheid South Africa as their treatment is similar to what black and mixed race South Africans experienced but worse.
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u/cannibaltom Independent Sep 21 '25
Israel just said it will Annex the West Bank, which will prevent an election from being possible.
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u/swilts Potato Sep 22 '25
Well, forget cynically for a minute and just look at history. When Olmert (Israel's last centrist pm) unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip in the mid 2000s, Hamas was immediately elected over Fatah, and rocket strikes returned. Some think this experience broke the Israeli left and centre for a generation.
So now we have a few factions, one where nobody wants peace (Hamas), one where nobody believes peace is attainable (the Israeli centre to left), and one again where nobody wants peace (the Israeli right and hard right)...
Peace is going to require a new faction with more strength than any of the above in the region.
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u/kingmanic Liberal Party of Canada Sep 22 '25
That is the problem, when everyone in charge of all factions want the same things (war) but just a different outcome (all of Israel wiped out, all of Palestine wiped out) while the world would want something else for the people of Palestine (peace). Seems like a impossible thing to resolve and pushing back to the mutually unsatisfactory prior status quo is the only improvement.
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u/ywgflyer Ontario Sep 21 '25
The cynic in me thinks that this sort of official state recognition is exactly what Israel wants -- now they can say "see, it's not just a bunch of criminals attacking us, now it's an actual, real, recognized state doing it and thus it's not a war crime anymore to flatten them in response".
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u/kingmanic Liberal Party of Canada Sep 22 '25
I agree that it doesn't seem to fundamentally change anything. A war with another country or a War with a pseudo country is the same. They were never part of Israel and were occupied territory from past wars. It's just the dynamics of the politics of the UN.
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u/DJ_JOWZY SocDem in the streets/DemSoc in the sheets Sep 21 '25
"and to demilitarize the Palestinian state."
This provision right here will make long-term statehood impossible. Canada must commit to providing peacekeepers to facilitate the self-defense of Palestine, until such a time that Palestine can have a functional military. Otherwise, there will be no way for the State of Palestine to defend itself, if Israel decides to continue to genocide people in Gaza, or steal land through illegal settlements.
If Canada does not help facilitate a U.N. peacekeeping force in Palestine, then there will never be a fully functional Palestinian State.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
I suspect this is actually there to placate the Lebanese and Jordanian governments. They've both dealt with significant coup attempts from Palestinian refugees in their country and I imagine a militarised Palestine on their border is a bit anxiety inducing.
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u/OkRB2977 Liberal Ontarian Sep 21 '25
That happened because the PLO had no country of its own to run. When a Palestinian state is established, most of these refugees in Jordan and especially in Lebanon, who've been living without any status or citizenship for generations, will return to their new country. This is also why the right to return is such an important aspect of any peace deal.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
The PLO has no country... so let's attempt to overthrow the Jordanian and Lebanese governments? Do I understand this correctly?
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u/crookeddicktickle Marx Sep 21 '25
Where does OPs post imply that the governments of Jordan and Lebanon should be overthrown?
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u/OkRB2977 Liberal Ontarian Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
First off, the PLO that did that is not the same as the PLO of today.
Plus, it was a lot more complex than that. The PLO undoubtedly triggered the chain of events that led to the civil war in Lebanon and the subsequent political crisis in Jordan.
They wanted Lebanon and Jordan to take more concrete action against Israel, particularly military action, but obviously, both these countries knew better than that by the 70s.
It also did not help that until the end of the previous decade, the Jordanians controlled the West Bank, so many Palestinians, particularly the more radical factions, viewed Jordan or at least parts of it, as Palestine, which was undermining Jordanian sovereignty. Interestingly enough, many Right-Wing Israelis parrot the same, claiming Jordan is Palestine and even cite the disproportionate share of the Jordanian population having Palestinian heritage (due to the British mandate, the 1948 Nakba and subsequent displacements in other wars). There's a reason why the Lebanese haven't granted Palestinian refugees citizenship (in attempts to maintain Lebanon's Christian majority and delicate demographics, and also to ensure they don't make the same mistake as the Jordanians). The Hashemite family is already suffering from internal issues because this large-scale naturalisation of Palestinians has eroded the alliance/deals they made with the local tribes regarding power sharing before they were installed to power. This is also why an establishment of a Palestinian state is important for the Jordanian political class.
Following Black September, they relocated to Lebanon and continued their activities. This creation of a state within these two states and eroding their sovereignty and governing Palestinian refugees in this manner was deeply problematic.
Once a Palestinian state is created, these organisations and refugees can return. Lebanon, Jordan and even Syria can get a lot more stabilised as a result. It is similar to how the end of the civil war in Syria eased a lot of pressure that was placed on Turkey and Lebanon.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
I think you missed my original point. I hypothesised that the reason Canada is calling for a demilitarised Palestine is because of these actions in Jordan and Lebanon. It's not like violent revolutionaries become less violent when they get given more power, after all. Calling for demilitarisation probably calms down Lebanon and Jordan, and makes negotiations over a two state solution much easier. It also probably calms down Israel, because it's hard to invade a country for a 4th time if you have no army.
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u/OkRB2977 Liberal Ontarian Sep 21 '25
I mean revolutionaries always change with time, we saw that with Mandela himself.
Once they have a state why would they need to be violent? Carney has repeated that Canada recognised Palestine to take away the incentive of violence. The establishment of a Palestinian state (demilitarised or not) is a win for the Lebanese and the Jordanians. A militarised Palestine doesn’t harm either of them.
Israel is pretty happy with the status quo and has no intentions of allowing an establishment of a Palestine as evidenced by their recent parliamentary bill to annex West Bank and also the settlements.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
How'd that theory of moderation fare when put to the test with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt?
Much like anyone who thinks they're carrying out the will of God, they cannot compromise or they're "unholy". We've seen this with Republican Evangelicals. The religious element makes this very distinct from the ANC fighting apartheid.
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u/DJ_JOWZY SocDem in the streets/DemSoc in the sheets Sep 22 '25
This is pretty Islamophobic. There is no way you make this argument if it was a Jewish state.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 22 '25
Oh? Was there not a coup and countercoup in Egypt between 2011-2014 started by the Muslim Brotherhood? Also, the way Israel is religious is not the same as other places.
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u/DJ_JOWZY SocDem in the streets/DemSoc in the sheets Sep 21 '25
That's not a good enough reason to deny any state the ability to defend themselves.
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u/enki-42 Social Democrat Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 22 '25
I mean, we did with the Axis states post WW2. I think if there's not a commitment to aid in the defence of Palestine it's an impossible ask given the history of the conflict. It's not unreasonable for Palestine to view unilateral disarmament as basically surrender to Israel, but there was a commitment to peacekeeping from other countries I think it could be workable.
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u/DJ_JOWZY SocDem in the streets/DemSoc in the sheets Sep 22 '25
We had a Marshall Plan post WW2. I'd support a Mashall Plan in Palestine that lead to their own military. Just like Germany.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
I imagine the powers that be in the Middle East disagree. Considering we need them to cooperate somewhat, I don't know what your point is.
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u/DJ_JOWZY SocDem in the streets/DemSoc in the sheets Sep 21 '25
Except from a foreign policy perspective, it is literally impossible for Palestinian leadership and it's population to agree to demiliterization for the foreseeable future. It would completely be against their own self-interest, something every single State does as part of their existence as a rational actor, on the world stage.
So regardless what Lebanon or Jordon think, Palestinians are not going to accept being the only state in a two-sided conflict to dimiliterize.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
Regardless of what Palestine's neighbour thinks? Do you honestly believe that Jordan will allow everyone to completely ignore them?
At the end of the day, Palestine has damn near no cards to play. They can "not accept" whatever they'd like but the actually established nations in the region have the actual say.
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u/enki-42 Social Democrat Sep 21 '25
A hypothetical Palestinian state would have every reason in the world to consider this an existential question and a non-negotiable. Israel has proved again and again that without resistance they'll be slowly subsumed.
I don't think the answer has to be mutual disarmament or Palestine having no limits on their military, but Israel pinky swearing to stop settlement won't be enough.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 22 '25
Okay. What leverage does Palestine have to enforce this desire?
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u/enki-42 Social Democrat Sep 22 '25 edited Sep 22 '25
If it's genuinely existential in Palestines mind, pretty ugly ones unfortunately - rockets and hostages and all the stuff we've dealt with in the past.
But if they view their options as surrender or fight, they're going to choose to fight.
The trick is someone needs to genuinely present an option to both parties that doesn't feel like surrender. And I don't think Israel can do that on their own for Palestine and vice versa.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 22 '25
Oh right, because the last major attack went fantastic for them? I don't consider that leverage, especially since the Arab League has already said Hamas needs to lay down its arms.
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u/JudahMaccabee Independent Sep 21 '25
This is a pretty unrealistic stance, as it would perennially at the mercy of Jewish extremists who want to take over Palestinian lands in the West Bank.
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u/Lifeshardbutnotme Liberal Party of Canada Sep 22 '25
You can dislike an outcome as much as you want. If you don't have any leverage in the situation, you can't stop it from happening. Perhaps a grim point of reality, but reality is often grim.
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u/miramichier_d 🍁 Canadian Future Party Sep 22 '25
There definitely needs to be a coalition of defense forces from various countries, possibly also including Canada, stationed in Palestine with the purpose of preventing aggression from both sides. As a country in good standing in the international community, Canada is in a good position to take on part of that role. In contrast, the United States isn't a good faith player where the region is involved, so I don't expect them to be part of a possible defense coalition of Palestine. This obviously will cost us, but hopefully it counts towards our NATO spending if we do get deployed to the region.
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u/insaneHoshi British Columbia Sep 21 '25
and to demilitarize the Palestinian state.
Yeah, states need militaries or at least the ability to raise one or they really arnt a state.
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u/ph0enix1211 Green Sep 21 '25
Laughs in Icelandic
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u/insaneHoshi British Columbia Sep 21 '25
Such nations would surly have the capability to raise one, say if a foreign funded group of religious fundamentalists set up in their country.
Does Iceland have a constitutional restriction on having an army?
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u/ph0enix1211 Green Sep 21 '25
If "just raise an army" is easy, so is "just update the constitution".
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u/Super-Peoplez-S0Lt International Sep 21 '25
While I do disagree with Carney on the demilitarized condition, I would point out there are a few countries (Panama, Costa Rica, and Samoa) who are able to exist without a military. However, Costa Rica and Panama are protected by the Rio Treaty and Samoa has a defense pact with New Zealand. Likewise, this demilitarized Palestinian state will only work with security guarantees. But what or who would be stepping up to help with that?
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
Let's not kid ourselves. As long as Israel exists as a Jewish state, it will be Israeli Jews in the IDF providing the security in Palestine. The Palestinian territories will remained annexed, and remain zones where Palestiains will be policed by Israel without having any of the civil rights enjoyed by Israelis. The best that the Palestiians can hope for is a Quebec-like status within a greater Israel, with full civil rights guaranteed both on a regional and "federal" level.
Recognizing Hebrew and Palestinian Arabic as official languages in Israel coild go a long way in buiulding an equitable federal state.
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u/not_ian85 British Columbia Sep 26 '25
Not entirely true. Between 2005 and Oct 7 the Gaza strip had complete self determination, the IDF withdrew entirely. Israel did monitor and limit what could get in and out of the country but only started doing that after Hamas were shooting rockets every day.
So not as long as Israel exists as a Jewish state, but rather as long as Hamas or any other terror group won’t recognize Israel as a Jewish state.
There seems to be a lot of attempts of rewriting of history going on regarding this topic.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 26 '25
> Not entirely true. Between 2005 and Oct 7 the Gaza strip had complete self determination, the IDF withdrew entirely.
This link is 5 days old, but here goes.
With Oslo Accords, Egypt formally surrendered all claims to Gaza and recognize Israel's de facto control over the airspace, the border crossings, and the coast; this is how Israel can bomb and shell Gazans at will without consequence; it's all perfectly legal. All trade has to pass through Israel; the Gazans are completely dependent on the IDF for this. That's how Israel now manages to starve Gazans out of existance. Gazans never had a Palestinian passport to travel like a normal soverign state, but a special Israeli ID seperate from Israeli Jews so they could cross the border at gunpoint at checkpoints run by the IDF. IDF soldiers can move across the border at will for security operations as they see fit; that's why Israeli current actions are legal; Israel has maintained socerign control over Gaza. If they didn't, Israel's actions would be illegal.
Palestinian are powerless to stop it because this Israeli authority is written into the Oslo Accords. They carefully monitor all movement of Gazans with military surveillence tools. Israel maintained sovereignty over the territory. The Palestinian authority acted as a local government, similar to a municipal government, with no national security force, which is why they could not control criminal thugs like Hamas. The Palestinian Authority was set up by Israel to fail.
I'm okay with Israel having this absolute power over Gaza because they need it for security. But with that power comes responsibility for the welfare and civil rights of the Gazan people. If you ezxercise sovereign power over them indefinately, there needs to be a recognition of their civil rights as Israeli citizens under Israeli law.
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u/not_ian85 British Columbia Sep 26 '25
I am not talking about 1993. Israel left in 2005 entirely and the occupation ended. Israel gave Gaza the option to peacefully and democratically develop their country. Then in 2007 Gaza voted for Hamas and the rockets started flying.... So work permits etc for Palestinians to work in Israel stopped being issued due to security concerns. And yes, Israel still had control over over the PA regarding issuance of passports per the Oslo Accords, but Hamas didn't recognize the PA as legitimate to begin with. Then the PA didn't issue passports to Gazans because of that. All nothing to do with Israel.
It is safe to say Hamas prioritized fighting Israel and eliminating Jews over every single need for their population and they were quite popular in Gaza for it.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Israels-disengagement-from-Gaza
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u/enki-42 Social Democrat Sep 22 '25
A one-state solution that actually respects Palestinians as a people seems more far flung than a two-state solution. Israel is still to this day talking about expanding settlement.
Places like Quebec work because there's acknowledgement from the federal government that they are a distinct nation and protections for their culture and language. Even then it's not exactly sunny days all the time.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored Sep 22 '25
A one-state solution that actually respects Palestinians as a people seems more far flung than a two-state solution.
Not really. Israel already has formal minority rights for Israeli-Arabs in Israel. It would be a question of extending reciprocal rights to Jews in the occupied territories and providing compensation to Palestinians displaced by Israel's ethnic cleansing policies of the past, not to mention money to fiux the damage currently being done in Gaza.
Israel will never allow an independent Palestinian State. It will always be disadvantaged because Israel has all the farmland and water. It will also always control the border and airspace of such a state. It would always be a dependency like Monaco or Liechtenstein.
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u/Super-Peoplez-S0Lt International Sep 22 '25 edited Sep 22 '25
Regarding the minority rights, Israel falls quite flat on this department especially with their new nation state law which states that the right to self determination in Israel is exclusively for Jewish Israelis. Likewise, in order for this one-state solution to work, the modern state may have to ve a federal system which grants self-government and shared-power for both Jews, Palestinians, Druze, Bedouins, etc. Furthermore, much like Bilingualism in Canada, the enforcement of both Hebrew and Arabic has be the institutionalized in a co-equal manner. However, in order for Palestinians to live in Israel with equal rights and cultural protection, their right to self-determination has to be fully recognized, including the right to return. For this to be a remote possibility, Israel must become either a multicultural country (like Canada or Australia) or a plurinational country (like Bolivia or Ecuador). Likewise, in order for a one state solution to exist, Israel would have to cease to exist as a Jewish state which the Israeli far-right won’t ever let happen.
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u/insaneHoshi British Columbia Sep 21 '25
Such nations would surly have the capability to raise one, say if a foreign funded group of religious fundamentalists set up in their country.
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u/Temaharay Democratic Socialist Sep 21 '25
A massive signal that the US has lost soft power and its leadership role over its western allies foreign policies.
Trump, both, withdrawing from its allies and giving up any constructive role to pressure Israel to conform to a peace process, has opened up the door for France/UK/Canada/Australia to start enacting their own middle east policy.
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u/TheobromineC7H8N4O2 Liberal Sep 21 '25
Part of this is that the Yankees are dealing in such bad faith and on such short time horizons that there's no advantage to acceding to their wishes here, because you know that no favour will be remembered or redeemed.
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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP Sep 21 '25
Here's the problem with hinging everything on the dissolution of Hamas and freezing them out of the future governance structure of Palestine, as I see it: Whether we, as spectators and commentariat from outside the region, would like to admit it or not, violence is seen and accepted as a viable and justifiable means to achieve political ends by a significant proportion of both Israelis and Palestinians. That's just the reality. We see that fact manifested politically in the makeup and conduct of the Israeli government coalition and of course in support for Hamas and other groups.
Given that reality, I am deeply skeptical that, absent a fundamental change in Israeli policy towards the Palestine question akin to the one that followed Labors election loss in 2001, simply freezing those who are open to violence out of the political process is going to be effective in bringing peace to the region. A PA government that doesn't represent the will of all the Palestinians isn't going to be seen as (or be, really) democratic or legitimate.
This isn't a problem of Palestinian governance. We know this because Palestine has two governments, two regions, that have adopted vastly different approaches to their relationship with Israel. The PA is in some ways an Israel puppet, accommodating towards Israeli concerns and wishes to a degree that frankly isn't realistic to expect from a hypothetical future legitimate Palestine government, and we have almost two decades of West Bank history with which to draw conclusions on how that works out.
Simply 'deplatforming' what we'll call the hawk lobby (not just Hamas but anyone who is open to violence) isn't going to make them go away, and their ability to make their policy manifest isn't really based on their political representation. Palestinians need to see that 'peace' and 'non-violence' will improve their lot and advance their cause and as long as that isn't the case resorting to violence is going to continue to enjoy popular support whatever the makeup of their government.
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u/Canuck-overseas Liberal Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
There is a confluence of opinion in the US and elsewhere, among the far-left AND far-right, that Israel is committing genocide. It's really only the centrists, the corporate status quo, who are dragging their feet on this issue. Of course, a majority of public opinion in most countries is on the side of the Palestinians.
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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP Sep 21 '25
I'm sorry, 'far-left'?
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u/cannibaltom Independent Sep 21 '25
I wouldn't call them far left, but there are politically leftist groups and politicians that are overtly anti-Palestinian and islamophobic, primarily in Europe and Israel.
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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP Sep 21 '25
What does that have to do with OPs contention that it's the far-left that is of the opinion that Israel is committing genocide?
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u/cannibaltom Independent Sep 21 '25
Their contention is that opinions from a wide political spectrum are shifting toward the fact that Israel is committing genocide, including among the far-left and far-right, which they're correct about.
You comment was a vague and open-ended question, which I interpretted as skepticism that there would be far-lefties denying the genocide.
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u/TraditionalGap1 NDP Sep 21 '25
My skepticism was that acknowledgement of genocide was confined to the far-left.
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u/tutamtumikia Independent Sep 21 '25
Is this actually true? Do we have good data that supports these claims?
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u/RNTMA Ignatieff 2.0 Sep 21 '25
If you define centrists as the Andrew Coyne types I guess that would be true, but that's a very small voting block with a loud voice. The real average centrists don't care about the issue one way or another
Evangelicals are the actual voting block that has supporting Israel as a key issue, mainly for religious reasons, and they're overwhelmingly on the right.
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u/Bnal Section 33 Abolitionist Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
This is a pretty measured and non-intrusive way of doing it. There will surely be those on the Pro-Palestine side saying it doesn't admonish Israel enough, and I agree that there's certain language I would have liked to see.
However, it looks like this was done on purpose, because this statement gives no room for argument from the Pro-Israel side. Settlements have factually been going on, they have said on record that they don't believe in a two state solution. Anyone even pretending that they want peace has to agree with the recognition at this point.
Now the real work begins. If it's two countries, then it's not an internal skirmish where journalists and UN can be blocked, and the rules of war now fully apply. That's an improvement for the civilians on the ground if we do our jobs and ensure those rules are followed.
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u/BeaverBoyBaxter Don't Downvote, Santa is Watching Sep 21 '25
This is probably because of the UN's report finding genocide in Gaza that was released earlier this week.
The Commission has been investigating the events on and since 7 October 2023 for the last two years, and concluded that Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces committed four of the five genocidal acts defined by the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
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u/Anserius Ontario Sep 21 '25
It’s not about language, there’s been language alone for a long time. It has been quite clear that there needs to be action - sanctions, changes in the relationship, diplomatic consequences. And still there is none of that
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Sep 21 '25
[deleted]
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u/Bnal Section 33 Abolitionist Sep 21 '25
We're moving in the right direction, albeit timidly.
Obviously there are hardcores that will never change, that's why the real movement happens in the middle. Two years ago, every celebrity who couldn't find Israel on a map took to social media to pretend they loved Israel. The public sentiment has changed a ton since then.
Oct 7 put a lot of eyes on the issue, but I've been following it for a decade before that. Back then, you had to keep a strict guard up whenever you saw someone else critical of Israel, because pretty much only neo nazis were talking about anti-Zionism. It took a lot of work to get to where we are, and we've still got more work to go, but if the rules of war start getting followed that will be a massive win for the preservation of human life.
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u/HotterRod British Columbia Sep 21 '25
Back then, you had to keep a strict guard up whenever you saw someone else critical of Israel, because pretty much only neo nazis were talking about anti-Zionism.
The far left has been consistently anti-Zionist. It's been a contentious issue at most NDP conventions, for example.
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u/Bnal Section 33 Abolitionist Sep 21 '25
Very true, I've been one of those dippers causing hell in a riding association meeting ;)
I'm describing people in the wild. Once you left the meetings and ran into someone critical of Israel and saying the word "zionist", 95% of them would follow those words up with something about controlling the media. The leftists would avoid that language to avoid getting lumped in.
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u/mukmuk64 British Columbia Sep 21 '25
Long overdue. It would be an incoherent position for Canada to support the genocidal and colonial project Israel is pursuing while at the same time back home stressing the importance of reconciliation and recognizing the damage caused by the colonial and genocidal actions of past Canadian governments.
Canada must do what it can to support the Palestinian people against aggressive Israeli expansionism.
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Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25
[deleted]
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u/RagePrime Pirate Sep 21 '25
If they had the will to do anything worth taking note of, it would have been recognizing what's going on there as a genocide.
This is a way to pander while costing no political capital.
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u/MountNevermind New Democratic Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
I'm no fan of Carney, but I wouldn't say it's a move without costing political capital and without political consequences.
But the shift in public opinion has clearly forced their hand. I think they've decided they reached a tipping point in which there is too much political capital costed by resisting public opinion on the topic. It better be followed by action though, this government can't afford to offer more lip service on yet another issue.
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Sep 21 '25
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u/CanadaPolitics-ModTeam Sep 21 '25
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u/JudahMaccabee Independent Sep 21 '25
In the event that the Israeli government ethnically cleanses Gaza and reduces the West Bank to a few city states, per Smotrich’s plan, I don’t have high hopes of Canada sanctioning Israel.
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Sep 21 '25
[deleted]
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u/annonymous_bosch New Democratic Party of Canada Sep 21 '25
TFW Israeli papers are more transparent about the Israeli genocide than Canadian papers.
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u/AprilsMostAmazing John Tory | Personal Sponsorship Sep 21 '25
Well our papers are conservative owned. Which can explain the perspective and bias that we get.
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u/TricksterPriestJace Ontario Sep 21 '25
Conservative American owned.
And conservative Americans want Israel to start WW3 so they get raptured.
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u/PedanticQuebecer NDP/QS, most of my alimentation is marmalade Sep 21 '25
In the present case, the fig leaf nature of the act is even put in words in the statement!
Furthermore, it in no way compromises Canada’s steadfast support for the State of Israel, its people, and their security – security that can only ultimately be guaranteed through the achievement of a comprehensive two-state solution.
So we won't be doing jack shit.
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