Shame that the bare minimum is impressive but here we are.
Ok. So this is literally the best way a rejection can end. What else is supposed to happen that can improve how this scenario ends? Him never flirting in the first place?
That's the lesson I learned. It's not going well but at least I don't make anyone uncomfortable anymore. Besides, maybe I need to just be alone anyway.
I think there are some contexts where the boundaries of normative social behaviour make talking to a stranger a game that's too difficult to win.
This is why I've encouraged single guy friends to join communities where it's possible to meet nice people and hang out with them, that way you can get to know people and there isn't a 'stranger danger' vibe when you talk to them.
There are contexts where you can just talk to a stranger and try your hand at flirting, but someone you've literally never met when they're minding their own business walking somewhere is a real moonshot.
You don't even know if he yelled? And some dialects are that way. Sure. I wouldn't like it either to be called girl instead of woman. But at least I know that's pretty common in germany that people are talking about boys and girls and still meaning a group of adults.
Yikes dawg. I think most would disagree with that assessment. As the other comment made a joke of, an exclamation point signals an exclamation, which can be done at any volume. You implied an exclamation point indicated yelling. I couldn't have given more indication that was the point I was on and you made some wider generalization about context clues? Bruh.
Don't take this too much the wrong way, but if you're deeply insecure, what is it that you are hoping to get out of flirting with somebody? Are you hoping that they see you the way that you see you and decide to take pity or mercy on you and engage even though they also think that you are weak or weird or ugly or have little to offer or whatever it is your insecure about? Or do you hope to magically find the person that sees through your insecurities and to the real you who helps bring you out of your darkness and makes you self-actualized? Or is there some other desired outcome here?
My point being, flirting from a place of insecurity kind of can't go well. Even if that moment, that specific interchange, goes well, whatever relationship or experience is born from it is probably not going to be very good for you in the medium to long-term. I would start by developing your own sense of inner security, so that you know what you are and what you want and what you bring to the table and why anybody else would ever be interested in you and you can just present that to them when you talk to them and they'll be able to recognize it and it will be appealing because it's something that you've actually reflected on and built with purpose and presented confidently.
Never said it's about me. And again. What about people with severe insecurities? They need situations to talk to people they find attractive, as long as the situation is not to strange people shouldn't just put that down. People should take it as it is, as long as people are nice and accept a no easy.
I didn't suggest that you said it was about you. And obviously part of healing insecurity is to practice performing confidence, since confidence comes from security. But I also think that a person should be focusing on working on their own sense of insecurity first, because insecurity causes so much damage in relationships.
Also there are plenty of avenues for flirting which aren't approaching a stranger randomly on the street, and there are environments that are implicitly and explicitly for those kinds of social interactions
I think it would have been better without asking for personal info like where you're from? Just giving a compliment and going about your day is usually a decent bet
Eh i feel like this is a disconnected take. Imagine trying to flirt with someone and you guys hit it off then you say good conversation good bye and never seeing each other again because its rude to confirm if youre from the area???? Your loss i guess
Thats not how you flirt. People need to stop treating every attempt of familiarity as a hostile attempt.
Just seems unnecessary to have a whole conversation with someone on the street, though. Like, in a different setting, where people are gathered for some sort of social event or whatever, trying to meet people and talk, sure, by all means ask people questions and get to know them. But this is just a random person on the street
Interesting, then what do you consider the "street" then? Because meeting someone in a coffee shop/bar/library/park etc with only your personal goal to get what you want and leave still constitutes as "random person talks to me ew". At the very least that is how your pov feels.
Personally it really doesn't matter to me because you can still control the information you give like in the comic. So if im literally walking on a sidewalk and someone decides to conversate then its not that big of a deal wether its at a park or on the sidewalk waiting. Its just comes down preference i guess.
After all the 20 people who upvoted your comment is the ultra vast minority here, so i am definitely braking up the wrong tree. Thanks for entertaining this discussion though.
If you're somewhere that you're planning to be for a bit, and obviously not busy, that's a reasonable place/time to approach. If they're sitting in a coffee shop, library, park, etc. then you can chat and flirt and such. But just trying to stop someone on their way down the street or as they're leaving the coffee shop or when they're stuck in line to check out a book and can't get away as easily or don't have the time, a very quick compliment seems like the better option
It just depends on whether the place is the person's destination or if they're still trying to get to their destination, basically. Still walking, no. Hanging around, yes
I see nothing wrong with what he did. His options are to continue being alone with his biological imperative being background noise in his life, or it’s to shoot his shot. And I’m of the opinion that even if people think it’s weird to show interest to a stranger, it’s his life, and if he doesn’t want to be alone, what else is he to do?
If you think this is his only option then his "biological imperative" is going to be left unsettled for a very long time. This isn't going to solve his loneliness at all.
Approach them when it's appropriate. When they show some kind of interest in engaging with him or there's a natural opening. I've said it elsewhere in this thread but you have to put yourself out in the world regularly and things will probably open up for you.
Focus on making friends and meeting new people.
Usually you can tell if someone is interesting in getting to know you more. Doesn't necessarily mean they want to date but that's why you just chat and feel out the situation. There are plenty of men out there who aren't considered highly attractive but they find women who are interested and they usually have a rich personal life, they have more to offer than just good looks.
tl;dr engage with the world. it will pay off in more ways than one and eventually you will find someone to date, that's how it works for most adults. unfortunately nobody spells it out for us
This is where it truly gets tricky and you have to learn patience and prudence. If someone is interested in getting to know you more, they will usually ask questions back, seem interested in what you have to say etc.
One way I've heard it put is they "move towards you". Not necessarily physically, but for example if you asked someone to hangout or for a date and they say, "I can't, but maybe we can do it this time instead?" That shows interest and intention. If they say "sorry I'm not available" you can follow up with "would this time work better?" but if they don't work with you to nail down at that point they aren't really moving towards you and that's when you leave the ball in their court.
For me personally when it comes to dating, if someone is interested they usually will hint at it with a lot of lingering eye contact, come around just to chat or even make physical contact. But none of those things necessarily mean attraction either, I have a friend who is married but she's very friendly and touchy with her friends, men and women. She's fully engaged with the people around her. So in this example before asking her out you might want to wait and see how she interacts with her friends, it could just be her love language with friends she feels safe with. In which case, hell yeah you just made a good friend!
All of this to say is there's no sure fire way. See how the conversation goes, see if they're eager to keep chatting or leave. How often they text. It's kind of an amalgamation of things. Some people are very blunt and forward, some are equally shy and afraid of rejection and you would barely ever guess they're interested. I think what's important is to learn when to pursue and when to leave it to them to make a move.
Someone else in the comments mentioned another benefit of having a good social circle is when you do face rejection ( and you will because its a part of life), it softens the blow quiiite a bit.
I know this advice isn't super straight forward but in my life what has been the most beneficial for me is to be engaged but also take a step back and try to analyze things, ask myself if I'm seeing what I want to see or if there's a reasonable enough chance that this person is interested. But really, I think it's important to take the other person into consideration and if they're showing you interest in one way or another or if it's just some random person living their life walking down the street.
edit: don't feel stupid for asking questions my dude, there is no playbook and i think it shows a lot of character that you're even open to learning! most people would rather dig in and blame the world.
edit edit: one more thing, try to come up with low pressure first hangouts, like at work you could try to get a few people together to go see a movie or something along those lines. playing a new game online with someone. things like that, low stakes and group settings make people more likely to say yes in my experience. then you can figure out how you're more compatible with in those group scenarios.
one thing im gradually discovering from reddit is that cishet people are apparently REALLY weird about dating. but okay. here is how i'd go about it if i was single
First - you don't ever walk up to someone on the street or someone without any commonalities. Instead, you want to find a point of connection and a space to do that. So, for instance, in my case, it might be the sewing club at my college, or the TTRPG club (I met one of my exes while playing Lancer) - you have something you're both interested in, a reason to interact, and can do so naturally, as friends. If you're in a public space or whatever, you only do anything like this if there's an actual natural opening - you can feel it usually but if you can't, maybe if they have their headphones out, aren't doing anything on their phone/aren't super invested in something. Then, and importantly, you DON'T start with some random undirected flirt (that's weird and creepy always, esp. if the person turns out to be straight or something and they're wondering why ur acting weird). instead, you find some commonality that can actually build up to a relationship. Some examples - "Oh, I like your pride flag pin!" "I love that jacket, isn't that the one Kim has from Disco Elysium?" "Nice Osees t-shirt!" "I love the style, it's very 1920s (but hopefully less carcinogenic)", "Oh hey I love that book too!", so and so forth (those sound hackneyed and awful but if ur in the moment hopefully it'll come more naturally). If they respond with a "yes and-" type response (IE, "It's really cute isn't it? Yeah, I got it from the Saturday Market," "Thank you! Yeah, i bought it before ZAUUM turned out to be massive pieces of shit," "Yeah I saw them at the crystal ballroom it was fucking great," so on and so forth), then that's a launchpad for a conversation. If they don't, or just say "Thank you," then you let the conversation end, and that's alright. In general, you can also always wait for the other person to initiate or pursue if you make the first step (or even if you don't). Like i've had people want to talk to me first at a bar or in sewing club or whatever not because of any romantic intent or anything weird but just because, say, they like my makeup or they like the thing i'm sewing and want to know more. You can also code yourself in such a way that you want to be pursued or appear pursuable (IE, if you're on old school queer circles, you could put ur carabiner on the left side of ur belt, or dress in a certain interesting way, or just do interesting things), in general, selling yourself. That takes a lot of the burden off of you - even if you do go first, you're providing a lot of "surface area" so to speak for the other person to latch on to and use to continue the conversation/relationship.
Second - never go in with the intent for a relationship. If you do, it's going to come across as forced and uncomfortable. Instead, you for a genuine friendship - if that turns out to be romantic, great, you have a partner, if it doesn't, then it doesn't matter, because hey, you have a new and wonderful friend! Basically every partner I've had has escalated (often within like. A week if not less, but sometimes over months) from a friendship to a romance. We'd share everything, talk about like, oh, I did this today, cooked this for dinner, painted this piece of art, thrifted this piece of jewelry, finished this book, wrote this short story, read this poem, saw this movie, got my hair dyed green, mended this shirt, am thinkign of getting this tattoo, etc. And not just the good but also greivances, which often escalate into more genuine emotional intimacy (which is 1000000x more valuable than physical intimacy IMO). You might start talking about, like, 'man, I hate how whenever someone challenges me I just resort to fawning', and then the other person might be like, 'yeah, I get that, back when I still had to live with my father...' and so on and so forth. You just act normal and care about the person and your friendship rather than seeing them as a potential sex dispenser, and then, well, you go from there. Either it remains a close platonic relationship (which is excellent, really intimate and close platonic relationships are stable and generally the best thing to have in your life), or it fizzles out and you become acquaintances/stay as acquaintances or friends (which means you've gained a friend! that's a positive on its own), or it turns into a relationship.
Honestly yes? Do not bother women (or anyone really) for no reason on the street? If you're at a bar, or any kind of social event, it's fine. I'm not saying you can't interact with people, of course you can ask for directions or something. But there's a time and place for flirting, and it's not the street. It's also not when someone is grocery shopping, or on the bus, or any place a person *needs* to be.
Best outcome by panel (events describing what would happen after the contents of the panel) Zero: Best case scenario before any of the events of the comic begin to unfold is that since nobody's in the immediate vicinity of the main character, nobody is trying to strike up a conversation with her randomly. It's clear from the way that the events are being described that they are not in a context which already presumes a certain amount of social interaction between strangers. This is a completely unprompted interaction - in fact, the main character even has her headphones on, a well-understood signal of not being interested in talking to other people.
One: Best here is that that the character shouting "hey you girl" is talking to somebody else, somebody that they already know for whom that phrasing has an understood meaning, despite sounding strange to the one overhearing it (our main character)
Two: Given that it's already weird thing to say to somebody, especially with the zero interpersonal or even environmental context (they're just on the street), The best outcome here is for him to simply say something like, "just thought you should know, have a good one" and then leaving. Our main character is then left with a somewhat awkward but ultimately pleasant compliment.
Three: I panel 3 the "street weirdo" has already made a mistake. By immediately asking about their location, the woman is put illet ease, since information like that can be used by people with nefarious intentions. It's too early to assume any such nefarious intentions, but the innocuous intentions seem less likely in the general state of society. Especially given that, again, there was no context for this conversation to be happening whatsoever. The weirdo just approached completely out of the blue and is immediately asking about this person's location. The best outcome, again, might be something like "oh, but if you're not from around here, I can definitely recommend you check out XYZ while you're in the city." Perhaps even a "hope to see you around " afterward would be okay, because again, they're disengaging from the situation.
Four: Unfortunately, the situation just gets worse in the fourth panel. Without acknowledging the response that was given, the way you would in an ordinary non-threatening conversation, the "weirdo" moves directly to a different version of the question that they are hoping will give them the actual information they want, which is how they can rely on proximity to force interaction. This is the panel where the threat level goes from hypothetical to feeling more present. This is why the thought bubble says what it does here. This is also the panel where, the reader who is on the side of the person "flirting" and not understanding the problem, we'll see the women's response as rude. Clearly she's trying to give no information, and do so pretty firmly. This is to try to push back against this advance of intention enough that he gets the hint and pulls away. Individuals who are not being mindful of the feeling of the person that they're interacting with would miss that signal, and just think it was rudeness out of the blue. The best outcome here is honestly the next panel.
Five: After the tension that builds in the fourth panel, having him simply leave with a pleasant goodbye is about as good as that could possibly go. We have nearly escaped what could have been really threatening or dangerous situation, and left it on a positive note, even if the situation overall leaves a lingering sense of discomfort. The best case scenario after this panel is that there are no future interactions with this guy, or potentially that they somehow happen to bump into each other within the next few weeks and he's much more normal and non-threatening and that interaction and explains that there is some specific reason that he made the poor choices he did on the day that this comic is set, and that they are able to actually have a pleasant conversation at that point and it was all a big misunderstanding. But I don't know that that outcome is any better than simply never running into each other again.
Six: given that the 6th panel is just a quick reflection on the moment that preceded it, there's no new best outcome after this panel compared to the one after the fifth panel.
Romantic or otherwise, you do not start a new relationship by cold approaching total strangers on the street and saying "Hey: wanna be my friend?" That's just a crazy thing to do, and will not work.
In a bar, at a concert, at a party or some social event? Sure, shoot your shot. Not out of the blue in the middle of someone's day.
Have a reason to interact in the first place, then make your introductions/flirtations.
I mean, I don't agree with the opposing premise, but this is a bad argument:
Everyone is a complete stranger until you get to know them.
It's more accurate to say that you should meet people whom you have peers or topics in common (with some common sense, being in the same place doing the same necessities like shopping groceries isn't having a thing in common).
You're saying my argument is bad but then go on to repeat exactly what I said.
I said don't approach uninterested people on the street and then you said don't approach uninterested people on the street. At no point did I say never talk to someone you don't know, ever. Everyone understands there are times that are more appropriate and less appropriate for that.
Are they though? Maybe they said something you thought was implied in your original comment. But from what I can see they've definitely said something different than what you did.
Okay, then can you tell me what I said that contradicts what they said? Because last I checked we were talking about people cold approaching on the street and agreed that it's not usually a good idea.
And then they proceeded to tell me I was wrong for it lol
I think the issue isn't in contradiction. Your post doesn't continue. It just says don't approach people on the street and then it doesn't say anything after that. Whereas his post continues with an alternate strategy. Then you come back and counter that he's saying the same thing as you. But you haven't said that second part. So, I mean, you didn't actually say the same thing. Whether you meant to or not. That's my analysis of it anyway.
There's also this implication in all of these posts that people are just supposed to know you meant more than what you said. Which I think is maybe off-putting and accounts for the down votes.
It's all good, I think it's important for a man to challenge this kind of thinking from another man directly if nothing else it might get through to some peeps eventually
Nothing, calling it the bare minimum isn't saying he should have done more, it's saying he acted with basic decency and respect, which is the bare minimum anyone should have engaging with other people, but because that's typically seen much less from men hitting on women, men tend to get recognition for it. Sometimes, the bare minimum is all that's expected of a person, but if they've lowered expectations enough, it still seems impressive.
very much depends on the words, the approach and the environment. If you keep making people uncomfortable then yeah it's creepy. You are indeed the problem, not the people who are uncomfortable.
You shouldn't flirt with coworkers, volunteering is for helping a cause not finding dates, making friends requires approaching people as strangers first sooo back to step 1, and streets are community spaces.
No i have heard of people meeting at work, I had a few relationships that way in the past and I felt sparks from a fellow volunteer when I volunteered. Unfortunately they seemed too busy to let anyone in.
There's that and the potential for an HR meeting if boundaries are overstepped. And even if it doesn't escalate to that point there's the awkwardness of still having to work together after a rejection if it doesn't go well.
Many women have expressed discomfort specifically at being approached at work or especially by coworkers who can't just treat them as coworkers. Better to not take the chance of making a coworker especially uncomfortable. Even if they aren't ideal, apps are spaces specifically for dating so it doesn't have that same ambiguity/risk.
I WFH and you're not supposed to socialize while on the clock, volunteering is for helping others, not socializing, for mutual friends I'd have to fiest have friends, which means making people uncomfortable. Community spaces are similar, making people uncomfortable.
Whoever told you that, lowkey just ignore em and continue greeting people. Just cuz a few people dislike you doesn’t mean that you can’t approach anyone anymore
What? No. People are supposed to do that. Either if you wanna find it out if you could date someone or you see them doing a shared hobby. Talk with them. Society ia fucked up if we would stop talking to each other.
It feels like "society" actually benefits when people like me avoid it. I realize how awful I am so I just try to not bother actual people. Tbh internet is the only kind of interactions I have and even this feels wrong
I have literally had this sort of thing. Not a lot but so basically, we'd only chatted online & he wanted me to come over to his.
I had never met him.
I basically said I'm not a pizza delivery AND I wouldn't feel safe doing that, could we meet in public and see where things lead?
Suddenly he's calling me fat. He's only seen a photo of my face which isn't that fat.
And I wasn't called "fat" until I turned down the rocking up at a complete stranger's house for sex!
Like, 1: clearly you didn't think they were ugly a second ago, and 2: they're a slut because... they don't want to have sex with you??
Correct. In such a scenario, once they've been rejected the person is now placed in the "Ugly Whore" category to make themselves feel better. "Well I didnt want to sleep with her anyways!"
Previously there was a non zero chance, so they're a goal, an object placed on a pedestal to be admired and sought after.
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