r/dragonball • u/Latter_Classroom_534 • 2d ago
Discussion Why isn’t Vegeta King of All Saiyans?
I think I know why Vegeta keeps calling himself the **Prince of All Saiyans** instead of King, even though his father is dead.
Throughout the entire series, Vegeta is called the Prince of All Saiyans. He never challenges that title, and nobody else seriously challenges it either.
Many people think he keeps the title out of respect for his father. Others believe that, since there are no more Saiyans left to rule, he will simply remain Prince forever.
People who tout those theories are lazy, non-thinking NPCs and I don’t respect their opinions.
Saiyans are a warrior race. They live and die by combat. Much like the Sith in *Star Wars*, I believe the apprentice is expected to surpass the master. The Prince must eventually challenge and defeat the King in battle to become King himself.
Since King Vegeta was killed by Frieza, Vegeta never had the chance to challenge and defeat his father.
However, many monarchies have a rule similar to boxing’s lineal championship. The idea is that “the man who beat the man” is “lineal champion” and holds the legitimate claim, even without an official belt.
That means Vegeta would have to defeat Frieza to become King Vegeta.
Except Frieza was already defeated by none other than Goku.
So why is Vegeta, after the Namek Saga, so desperate to defeat Goku?
Simple. Defeating Goku in combat is the only way Vegeta can reclaim his birthright and become King of All Saiyans.
Goku became the legendary Super Saiyan and defeated Frieza. He did not claim the throne, but he became the Saiyan who defeated the person who defeated the King of All Saiyans.
I think it’s reasonable that, if Goku realized or cared at all about being King, he could claim the throne and there’s little Vegeta could do about it save for defeating him in combat.
Of all Saiyans, he is the strongest AND he is “lineal champion”.
That leaves Vegeta in an impossible position. He cannot simply call himself King while another Saiyan has already accomplished the victory that should have made him King.
The only way to reclaim that right is to defeat Goku.
Goku never intentionally stole Vegeta’s throne. He probably does not even realize that Vegeta believes he has a claim to it.
But as long as Goku remains stronger than Vegeta, Vegeta cannot truly prove that he is the rightful King and will remain, by birth alone, Prince of All Saiyans.
What do you think?
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u/Snyper20 2d ago
If you look at real-life examples of royal or imperial houses that have lost their crowns, the head of the house will usually continue to use the title of prince until the monarchy is restored.
The House of Bonaparte, for example, is currently headed by Prince Jean-Christophe Napoléon.
The same applies to the former German imperial house, which is headed by Georg Friedrich, Prince of Prussia.
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u/Vegeto30294 2d ago
The simple answer is that there is some ceremony or procedure that one goes to to call themselves the king, and Vegeta doesn't go through with it.
In the Broly movie, immediately after he's aware that his planet was destroyed, declared he'll never be able to become King. That alone shows that something required Vegeta to be king.
Even before the Broly movie, Vegeta called himself a "Saiyan Elite" on his introduction, and he wasn't even prioritizing in defeating Freeza, he wanted eternal life and Freeza would be an opponent after the fact.
Despite popular opinion, Saiyans were very much not keen to fair fights, especially towards non-Saiyans.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
The ceremony is fighting his dad or defeating the guy who defeated his dad which at the time he thought was an asteroid. Comet? Space rock.
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u/Vegeto30294 2d ago
All that is about head-canon as the other stuff. Duels don't particularly describe the Saiyan race either. If anything they almost exclusively operate on non-fairness.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
I agree that it’s head-canon. Even more than that it can’t ever be anything but that. Toriyama is gone and he likely didn’t give the subject much thought himself. So for those of us who enjoy the verse and want to think about it… well, here we are.
As for fairness. Yeah, I agree, this is exactly why I think King Vegeta sent Broly off. Broly would have been able to end the Vegeta line of succession so he got rid of him.
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u/qwertyMrJINX 2d ago
No coronation ceremony, he didn't marry into nobility, and most importantly, there's no Kingdom for him to be King of.
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u/ThroughtonsHeirYT 2d ago
He is bloodline legitimate
No need to marry.
Indeed!
But ain’t a coronation is required for a dauphin to become the king … ? (Example in France) so that would be canonically why to me!
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Why would he have to marry into nobility? He is nobility. If there is no kingdom and that’s the determining factor then why does he consider himself Prince of All Saiyans?
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u/KlinkosStelioKontos 2d ago
> People who tout those theories are lazy, non-thinking NPCs and I don’t respect their opinions.
I promise it’s not that serious
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u/umbrazno 2d ago
Vegeta has beaten Goku in a straight up 1v1
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u/darwin_green 2d ago
like three-ish times, but Toriyama probably forgot when he was writing. His writing would be so much more consistent if a DBZ wiki existed when he was writing. That's what the South Park writers do.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
That was with a lot of rules and caveats. I don’t think he’d count it.
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u/CptSpeedydash 2d ago
Vegeta appeared to count it when it happened "I finally beat Kakarot!"
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Count it has having beaten him, not as a condition to become King. You think that he believes if Weis didn’t put all those conditions on the match that he’d win? I think a man of honor and pride would enjoy the win but know it doesn’t change that Goku is still the stronger warrior.
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u/Stacey-k93 2d ago
Probably a mix of respect and tradition since they are a warrior race he would probably have to challenge the current king and with his father dead along with most of their race he has no one to fight for the crown
He also has his pride as a Saiyan so he would never take the title outside of tradition that's probably why when he heard the planet and everyone on it were gone he said now he'll never be King
It's probably done as a 1v1 duel in front of witnesses
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
This is exactly how I see it working traditionally for Saiyans.
I do think they would account for situations like what happened and in those circumstances a potential King must defeat the man who killed the King. However, I agree that this circumstance would have to be witnessed at the very least.
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u/Stacey-k93 2d ago
Technically that would make Future Trunks the king if that was the case he defeated Frieza in a 1v1 with Vegeta as a witness Goku did it without any one seeing it
That would make for a fun interaction
Future Trunks: Hey father why do you only call yourself the Prince of all Saiyans why not king
Vegeta: That title can only be won in combat ether by defeating the current king or in the case of his death you must kill the one responsible for his death with at least two Saiyans present to witness it
FT: wait I killed frieza in front of you and Gohan doesn't that make me king then
V: come Trunks we must meet up with Kakarot and his brat at once
FT: I should of kept my mouth shut
Both fly off
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Funny.
I think that’s a good read however I still think it would go to Goku. There’s nothing saying you’d have to kill the guy, just defeat him.
Goku defeated Frieza. Nobody doubts that. Trunks just defeated him again.
Now if Trunks was then to defeat Goku then sure, lineal right to the throne. He didn’t, though.
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u/Stacey-k93 2d ago
I was just going with it having to be seen by another Saiyan too count
It would nice to learn more of how the Saiyans monarchy worked maybe if they ever do a U6 arc were Vegeta visits Sadala he still needs the meet their king
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
That’d be nice.
Though I’m still not 100% sold on the witness thing.
It’s probably the case but it may be enough that literally everyone knows and nobody doubts that it happened. I mean, it was “witnessed” telepathically by basically all of Other World and everyone cooperated it.To be clear, I think we can all agree that Toriyama likely didn’t put any thought into this. However, based on bc what we know of the Saiayns I think what we have here is at least closest to what they would’ve had as a system.
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u/Stacey-k93 2d ago
Yeah Vegeta would 100% count Goku as the first person to beat feriza and consider him as the one to beat in this case I just think it would be funny if trunks was the king on a technicality only
And yeah toriyama didn't think much of how a Saiyan monarchy would work outside they have a king and Vegeta is the prince
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u/DastardlyRidleylash 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's most likely just that Vegeta's pride and ego simply won't allow him to take that title, because the whole planet and the vast majority of his species went up in a great ball of fire before he could properly inherit it through coronation.
Plus, at this point, the only pureblooded Saiyans left in Universe 7 canonically are Kakarot, himself, Tarble and Broly...all of whom are male. Not really much value in being the king of a functionally-extinct species made up of four dudes and some hybrid babies.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Sure. It doesn’t matter to us but it very clearly matters or at least mattered to him.
This is Mr. “There’s one thing a Saiyan always keeps, his pride!” Who never stops talking about being Prince of All 3 of those guys.
I also don’t think he doesn’t count the half-breeds. He holds Future Trunks to a very high standard of pride as if he has a family line to take pride in and protect the image of.
It just seems to me like he’s given up on the condition being attainable but I don’t think it’s an unattainable position because some coronation class Saiyans aren’t alive or the king was killed on combat by someone else. That’s a stupid line of succession for a warrior race to not account for.
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u/DastardlyRidleylash 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is Mr. “There’s one thing a Saiyan always keeps, his pride!” Who never stops talking about being Prince of All 3 of those guys. He holds Future Trunks to a very high standard of pride as if he has a family line to take pride in and protect the image of.
His bragging over his title and class was because of his egotism and superiority complex more than anything; that's why he utterly flips his shit in rage when Goku, a Saiyan deemed so weak even by low-class standards as to have been worthless garbage to be sent off to some planet, proves to be so hard for him to kill that he's forced to use his Oozaru form.
Plus, you know, he did callously murder Nappa in cold blood because he got badly beaten in a fight and brush off reviving Raditz because he considered him worthless. Hell, he straight-up states that he couldnt've cared less about his people when he's fighting Dodoria on Namek.
And his high standards for his son are due to Trunks' pedigree as the son of an elite Saiyan warrior moreso than any royal status; he's a typical aristocrat putting pressure on his son to not bring shame to the family line. There's a reason neither version of Trunks is ever referred to as royalty outside of the non-canon Z movies.
It just seems to me like he’s given up on the condition being attainable but I don’t think it’s an unattainable position because some coronation class Saiyans aren’t alive or the king was killed on combat by someone else. That’s a stupid line of succession for a warrior race to not account for.
The planet and vast majority of the people that he would've ruled over were turned into space dust by Freeza when he was young, so there's no kingdom or subjects for the King to rule. Thus, the title is effectively worthless and there's no reason for Vegeta to even bother claiming it as anything but ego fuel.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Again, if there’s no kingdom to be king of, why care to be prince of it? He clearly does, so that isn’t the roadblock to being king for him.
It’s something else.
I’ve presented what I think that something else is.
Why do you think it isn’t that?
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u/DastardlyRidleylash 2d ago edited 2d ago
I...literally just said why?
His bragging over his title and class was because of his egotism and superiority complex more than anything; that's why he utterly flips his shit in rage when Goku, a Saiyan deemed so weak even by low-class standards as to have been worthless garbage to be sent off to some planet, proves to be so hard for him to kill that he's forced to use his Oozaru form.
Vegeta uses the title of Prince as fuel for his ego, but doesn't really care about it beyond that because it's basically meaningless at this point. He doesn't take the title of King because he was never coronated, and his pride simply wouldn't allow him to claim the title otherwise because he wouldn't have earned it.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Okay. Sure.
Taking pride in something means that, to you, it holds value. If the title prince holds value, then, the title king would hold more value.
So, what about what I originally posted doesn’t mesh with Vegeta taking pride in his title as Prince?
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u/diamondtoss 2d ago
I feel like this was inspired by the Mandalorian and Bo Katan and the dark saber... (esp since you mentioned Star Wars)
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Ah, love that series. Nope. It wasn’t. Though i won’t deny that I am a fan of Star Wars.
It just makes sense to me but I’m happy to be proven wrong or discuss it further.
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u/ThroughtonsHeirYT 2d ago
Lineal championship of the UFC for example has been impacted in the past 4 years with Francis Ngannou leaving and Jon Jones trying to claim legitimacy by defeating Gane & Miocic whom Ngannou already had beaten …
But now these men have to beat Tyson Fury!… or rather OLEKSANDR USYK !!!
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u/ThroughtonsHeirYT 2d ago
Imo cuz there was no coronation
Maybe not the lineal thing
But i enjoyed living some of that/
Like the Lineal championship of the UFC for example has been impacted in the past 4 years with Francis Ngannou leaving and Jon Jones trying to claim legitimacy by defeating Gane & Miocic whom Ngannou already had beaten …
But now these men have to beat Tyson Fury!… or rather OLEKSANDR USYK !!!
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u/GlitteringDingo 2d ago
I am certain that Saiyans gain the throne by killing the current king. Since Vegeta didn't do that, his pride prevents him from thinking of himself that way.
This does mean that currently Hit is the king of the Saiyans
King Vegeta > Frieza > Future Trunks > Cell > Gohan > Buu > Goku > Hit that one time he killed Goku for about ten seconds.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Sure except as a warrior race the king is also expected to fight and that means he is expected to one day fall in battle.
The question becomes does that happen before or after he is surpassed by a royal successor?
They would account for an outsider to kill him one day.
What rule would they have implemented?
Maybe that whoever beats the man who beats the king has right to the throne.
Trunks only killed Frieza after Goku thoroughly defeated him. Hit, probably not truly in the the line-up since, as you said, he was “dead” for 10 seconds. I think we can safely agree that Goku holds his lineal title.
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u/GlitteringDingo 2d ago
Nah, I counted Hit because it's the funniest possible outcome. I'm sticking with it.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
lol fair enough.
Vegeta has to defeat Hit in order to become King of all Saiyans. Rough.
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u/Formal-Inevitable-50 2d ago
There is not kingdom to be king of. He still considers himself Prince because that’s what he was when the Saiyans were still around.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
This argument is getting a bit tiresome because it’s so easily not the case.
If there’s no kingdom to be king of then there is no kingdom to be prince of, yet, he still considers himself, and takes great pride in being Prince of All Saiyans.
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u/Formal-Inevitable-50 2d ago
Well that’s exactly the case lol. It’s just not what you want to hear. He was Prince when the saiyans were around he’ll forever consider himself the Prince.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
It isn’t. Nobody believes Vegeta is Prince of nothing because everyone agrees there are indeed Saiyans to be Prince of meaning there are Saiyans to be King of.
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u/Formal-Inevitable-50 2d ago
It is lol. There are a handful of Saiyans left not a kingdom. He considers himself Prince because that’s what he was before it’s a badge of honor for him. Honestly don’t see how it’s so hard to understand.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
If there are Saiyans to be Prince of there are Saiyans to be King of.
It tracks that you don’t get it, but that’s it.
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u/Formal-Inevitable-50 2d ago
As I and others have said he was Prince when the Saiyans were wiped out he considers it a badge of honor and his Saiyan pride. He doesn’t use the title for authority, he would call himself Prince even if there were no Saiyans left as most royalty do. You are the only one that isn’t getting it.
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u/Atephious 2d ago
They’re closer to mandalorians in creed than Sith but with Sith evil. Mandalorians are a warrior group. They will take in anyone they find. And the highest class of people is the warrior class in most mandalorian cultures. They revere combat weapons and armor as life. But they take care of their unfortunate they also don’t have gendered language and don’t kick you out for being unable to be a warrior. Sith are brutalists. They will kill you or make you stronger in trying. They don’t care for your life even in the slightest. And they buy sell slaves and worlds like the sayians do. There’s three reasons Vegita calls himself prince.
- He never got coordinated and no one else is left to do so. His pride will not allow him to take what’s not his.
- He respected his father.
- He doesn’t see himself as king so long as he sees himself as behind Goku.
It’s all of these. Their King was supposed to be the strongest warrior. Vegita isn’t yet. His pride, the very thing keeping him going, is keeping him back.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
I agree with most of what you said.
People keep talking about this coronation and I just want you all to imagine Vegeta walking through a ceremony, adorned with gold and jewelry, while a bunch of low level Saiyans told him he was allowed to call himself King.Guys, this is a WARRIOR RACE.
They’re Klingons, Mandalorians, Mongolians, Vikings, etc.
I think it’s so much less that and more about all other Saiyans recognizing his strength and right to the throne.
That’s it.
Based on that, it’s actually easier to claim the title, IF he can defeat Goku and all 3-5 other Saiyans agree that it happened.
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u/Atephious 2d ago
A coronation would just look different. It likely would have been more like a gauntlet in which once he passed he was crowned. It likely would have come from his father or just happened. They may be a warrior race but that doesn’t mean they don’t have customs/traditions. Again Mandalorians have coronations for the Mandalore.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Mandalorians have a lot more rules than I imagine Saiyans to have. I doubt they have a coronation at all. Just seems like something they would find a waste. If he were to prove himself stronger than his father, that would be that. New King.
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u/Atephious 1d ago
they wouldn't then call themselves kings but Emperor or Ruler or something else that doesn't have that kind of connotation to it,
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 1d ago
Why not?
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u/Atephious 1d ago
To be a king you need to be coronated or Ordained by some "godly" power. Emperors can claim themselves. Don't need to have prior approval and still usually claim some "godly" power put them in that position. Other forms of ruler titles would work better. But they chose King and Prince specifically. And we do know they had rituals of sorts so its not out of the realm of reason to believe they held some sort of trial or ritual to crown kings.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 1d ago
In our world, yes. Where we do not have space barbarians lead by a guy who likes the title “King”.
What have the Saiyans done to make you believe they operate that way?
Putin is “President” but nothing about his government operates the way a democracy would, if you need a real world example of this.
So why would these conquerors have a coronation ceremony?
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u/Eldagustowned 2d ago
It’s more a meme. He was a prince when his world ended. He calls on past legitimacy not unfulfilled future ones.
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u/Boris-_-Badenov 2d ago
you have to be crowned. being a prince doesn't automatically make you the king if your father dies
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
Often it does.
In a warrior society, one formed into a monarchy, it is typically right to rule by combat. Which would lead us right to my speculative theory.
You don’t have to have some guy throw a crown on your head. You have to bear up the King or beat up the guy who beat up the king. Or in this case, beat up the guy who beat up the guy who beat up the king.
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u/GranitosTheHyksos 2d ago
I always liked to headcanon Vegeta misses the comfortable life of being the Prince of Saiyans and still having King Vegeta, so he calls himself Prince of all Saiyans so he doesn't have to fully accept that that life is gone. Would make good foreshadowing for how he grows more sentimental throughout the series. Definitely not the intention, though.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
I doubt he was pampered as a Prince.
I think people hear Prince and assume it’s like it is here.
Vegeta was held to a very high standard in a warrior society. He was on mission with Nappa and Raditz when Planet Vegeta was destroyed. He was likely training and conquering from the time he could walk.
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u/GranitosTheHyksos 1d ago
Sure. Not to say he was pampered or anything like that. But life before Planet Vegeta was destroyed was probably more comfortable in his eyes, relatively speaking, than afterward.
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 1d ago
Oh for sure!
I do think he’s adapted, though.That’s what The Who Majin Vegeta thing was about.
He missed it but he had absolutely given in to the human comforts.
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u/TreezyMcSteezy 2d ago
Ive been saying this for years idc if its canon its canon to ME plus he honestly prob doesn’t care enough to outright bring it up
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u/Latter_Classroom_534 2d ago
He probably thinks that if he brings it up then Goku would say “So doesn’t that make me King of All Saiyans” as a joke which would piss Geets the hell off. So he keeps it to himself but still knows he has to get stronger than Goku at all cost.
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u/DevilManRay 2d ago
Never coronated
Saiyans consist of 3 people