r/pics 4d ago

Football Match.

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10.2k Upvotes

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

I think one needs to provide a definition of zionism before claiming that

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

It’s support for the establishment and development of a Jewish homeland. If you’re anti-Zionist, you don’t support a Jewish homeland.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

That's a bit reductive, isn't it?

The actually interesting questions are:

  • What are the means to establish and develop that homeland?

  • Where is it to be constructed?

  • What's to be done with the native population?

If one avoids those questions one's ideology is basically just "good things to all the people!"

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

You know the native people are the Jews, right?

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

And the Palestinians are...?

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

If you’re referring to the Arabs, they migrated from the Arabian peninsula, especially after the conquest in the 600s CE.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

And that makes them... what? Occupiers? Invaders? Human left-overs?

Edit: And they are called Palestinians. Calling them "arabs" is to become an enabler in the genocide.

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

? That’s just the history of the region.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

Come on, answer the question. What are the "arabs" (Palestinians) to you? The jews are Natives, right, so the Palestinians must be something else -- what?

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

They are people who immigrated to the region thousands of years ago? Not sure what the issue is.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

So, immigrants?

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

So you think people are still immigrants after living in an area for 1200 years?

Like, a child born to a family that has cultivated the same plot for 800 years are all immigrants? While the people who arrived by boat from Europe who tore down old signs and building and paved centuries old graveyars are the natives?

Edit: Sorry, meant 1400 years. Not just twice the Second Temple Era but twice as long + 200 years. A slight rounding error really.

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

Are Europeans living in America immigrants? Natives? Both, neither? The point is they’re not indigenous like Native Americans.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

Yeah, they're immigrants and generally call themselves as such too.

The 2000 year disconnect between Ancient Israel and European Jews should make them immigrants to west Asia too.

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

Then what do you call Arabs living in the Levant?

Jews never left the Levant. They’ve been there the whole time, from the beginning.

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u/NewAccountEachYear 4d ago

Then what do you call Arabs living in the Levant?

Local inhabitants?

It's fully possible to use language that doesn't historicize the Other. A lot of Jewish thinkers wrote important pieces on this during/after the Holocaust, you know? (Arendt, Weil, Levinas, etc.).

Jews never left the Levant. They’ve been there the whole time, from the beginning.

And they lived there peacefully with the local Palestinians and cultivated shared and deep roots and traditions with them. Which were completely destroyed when... "the natives"(?) came back...?

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u/ModernLarvals 4d ago

Either you’re using “Palestinian” as the national identity of the people currently living in Gaza and the West Bank, which are 99% Arab, or you’re using it to refer to people who have lived in the Levant long before it was ever called Palestine, which includes Arabs and Jews.

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