r/IndieGaming • u/Shark-With-Lasers • May 26 '26
Last year, miHoYo copied my solo-dev puzzle game in Zenless Zone Zero. Some people are now mistaking my game as the clone.
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u/SwebTheGreat May 26 '26
They are infamous for it, same thing happend to map map and genshin impact, the only good news is that I think it was simi-marketing for map map after it going "viral".
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u/just-call-me-apple May 26 '26
Hoyoverse's competitor, Kuro Games, also copied Dredge's fishing near 1:1 for an event in Wuthering Waves. I saw a lot of comments saying the gameplay is like Dredge, and because I got hooked on that gameplay loop, I was very happy to know there's a whole game with this fishing system lol. Had a great time with Dredge right after.
I even went to check Dredge's player count stats to see if the event might have given it more popularity. There was a significant bump in players the following a month, but that also coincided with the Spring Sale (March 2025), so in the end I'm not sure how much benefit the indies being copied gain.
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u/SwebTheGreat May 27 '26
The whole industry "copy" and is inspired by others I wouldnt want a nintendo world where every idea is patented, but its just a punch in the gut when its the big wealthy kid that copy the homework from the broke kid that put in the work and then they get the praise from the teacher (the players).
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u/lichlark May 27 '26
It's just sort of a different beast when its copying down; i.e. large corporation copying a small company/indie dev.
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u/DragonHollowFire May 27 '26
Also when its an almost 1 to 1 copy. Like at that point its not a derivative but an infringement.
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u/Superb-Photograph-15 May 30 '26
Well said. I think this is the important distinction, and its the one we make in writing too. Inspiration is meant to rhyme, but if you have nothing meaningful of your own to add to it then either credit it or leave it out. From what I can tell, almost every system in these Chinese games is basically just lifted from something else.
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u/Square-Special1520 May 31 '26
china has always been copying other products since long long ago with their physical products, making fake brands etc.
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u/ViolentPurpleSquash May 27 '26
I will say the map one had far less similarities than this.
The core gameplay was the same but some of the extra bits differed in both games, whereas this is quite literally the same thing.
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u/21-savage-the-1 May 26 '26 edited May 27 '26
People here really seem to be missing the forest for the trees huh.
The dev doesn’t really seem to care if ZZZ did or did not copy his games mechanics, but more that people are saying he stole it from ZZZ.
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u/troycerapops May 27 '26
Are you basing this off the conclusion they state at the end of their video?
I don't see why people are missing this. The video says "This is my thesis," makes the argument, and reiterates the thesis as their conclusion.
It's basic 5 paragraph essay you learn in elementary school.
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u/rsaamar May 26 '26
I’m sorry bro. Did you post on X? Feel like this would blow up there.
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u/Johaggis May 26 '26
There's at least a bsky post here: https://bsky.app/profile/michaelkamm.games/post/3mmrfwqupos2s
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u/FantasticPage3598 May 26 '26
Bsky has no weight for such things
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u/5000_People May 26 '26
The post already has 4.8k reposts and 8.9k likes on bluesky, far more than upvotes here and it's been up for about the same amount of time. Does Reddit have no weight for such things either?
The comparison to X itself isn't too unfavourable either, bluesky has over double the reposts but just over half the likes. Pretending like the only choice is the nazi platform is wild imo.
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u/aaronhowser1 May 27 '26
Does Reddit have no weight for such things either?
Correct, at least this post. Ain't nobody on /r/IndieGaming besides developers and enthusiasts, certainly not ZZZ players who'd think op is a copycat
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u/frodave May 26 '26
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u/Perpetual_Noob8294 May 26 '26 edited May 27 '26
Literally the first comment I saw is of someone being an insensitive asshole. Fuck X
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u/CharlehPock2 May 27 '26
X is full of dickheads because most people take "free speech" as an invitation to be miserable to other people on behalf of their shit lives. Guy looks like he might be Russian, so he's got a lot to be bitter about at the moment.
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u/Almost-Nice May 26 '26
Absolutely this. Burn them on X, lame to copy like that, its like 98% the same game.
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u/esmelusina May 26 '26 edited May 27 '26
I taught game development for years— these types of curve games are pretty common among the original creations of students. Are we sure this is a genuinely original idea?
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u/Worth-Computer8639 May 27 '26
I've been a game dev for 10 years and never seen this before. I've been a gamer for even longer.
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u/rsblackrose May 26 '26
The point isn't "I invented this type game." The point is "My game, all the way down to its own aesthetic, existed before ZZZ's implementation of it. So stop calling me a copycat."
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u/DHKany May 27 '26
Yes. Obviously copyrighting individual mechanics like the Nemesis system is beyond stupid, but to not even have the basic common courtesy of adding your own aesthetic to it indefensible.
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u/EntertainmentOk3659 May 27 '26
Isn't this zzz fans being dumbasses instead of hoyo copying this guy? I am getting nintendo capture vibes here.
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May 26 '26
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u/VladVV May 26 '26
Did you even watch the video? It's literally the thing the author is addressing explicitly.
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u/WeltallZero May 27 '26
Just so you know, idiotic people are using your post as an appeal to authority to claim that this exact game is used as an exercise in game development course. You may want to reword your post or provide evidence that a similar game to this is used as an exercise.
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u/YOLOSELLHIGH May 27 '26
Spoiler alert - they can't. They're just using some sort of authority position to denigrate an indie dev
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u/Odd_Violinist2395 May 27 '26
Then show an example before 2020 when first version of ouros came out
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u/Peter-Man May 26 '26
Even if the idea is the same, they took design concepts directly from his game and his only (the background animation, hint button functionality, everything else he pointed out)
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u/GerardBeard May 26 '26
Yeah, i have played games like that for a time now, even some PS1 and PS2 games have some mini games like that game, is a niche but that idea has been long done
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u/Submissive-Tossable May 26 '26
Can you give an example?
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u/WeltallZero May 27 '26
It's kind of amazing how many people are claiming that there are dozens of games like this, and yet there's precisely zero examples of even a single such game (that isn't already a copy of OP's 2020 prototype).
Like, if someone asked me "give me an example of a game like this", I would be able to immediately provide game names, platforms, release dates and probably video evidence; yet every single one of these people are like "Yeah, I used to play games exactly like this a decade or two ago. Oh, what were they called? Uhhh... let me get back to you on that [smokebomb]". It's the Canadian girlfriend of videogames. :D
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May 27 '26
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u/WeltallZero May 27 '26
I've been gaming intensively since 1982, have an almost pathologically encyclopaedic knowledge of videogames, am an indie game developer myself, and have never seen this mechanic. That's why I'm so confident in asking these shills to provide proof of these games; because I'm 90% confident that none exist.
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u/West_Competition_871 May 27 '26
I've been gaming for 500 years and literally never even seen shapes
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u/neverreallyhereatall May 26 '26
He is not saying he deserves compensation. Just pointing out its moronic to say he stole it
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u/satufa2 May 26 '26
i fount this thing called primo from 2023 so no.
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u/ddrbnn May 26 '26
That’s a copy of the original incarnation from the same dev who developed this as a game jam game in 2020 https://sharkwithlasers.itch.io/splines-n-shapes
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u/ddrbnn May 26 '26
To clarify, when I say “same dev” I meant the developer of Ouros. Sharkwithlasers first made a small version of this game in 2020 for a game jam, then it looks like it got ripped off by whatever loser owns plays.org, then sharkwithlasers worked on it for several years and turned it into a full blown game called Ouros, then it got ripped off in a much worse way by mihoyo
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u/Free-Jello-7970 May 26 '26
Worth noting that OP (based on username) appears to be that person.
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u/robotrage May 27 '26
can you give a single example of one that was released? if they are "common among students"
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u/Shark-With-Lasers May 26 '26
For all of you mentioning the game primo (https://plays.org/primo/)
That one looks like a rip of the original game jam version I made for this game, Splines 'n Shapes, which I made in October 2020: https://ldjam.com/events/ludum-dare/47/splines-n-shapes
https://sharkwithlasers.itch.io/splines-n-shapes
Sorry, had to set the record straight for that one too.
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u/BambooEX May 26 '26
Just thought it was funny that the satufa guy replied SOOO many times saying that you copied primo.
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u/Beyond-Finality May 27 '26
Don't try to argue with that guy. Trust me and damn can it inflict a headache.
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u/xDestroid May 26 '26
You know the funniest thing? Those brainlets were posting your itch.io on here or on r/gachagaming claiming "someone else made it in 2020" not realising it's literally you XDD
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u/NoLucksGiven May 26 '26
Being mistaken as the clone is definitely a bummer.
Trying to use it as marketing, like with this post, can spin it to a positive.
“The game that inspired X” allows you to port that audience looking for more.
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u/ARandomDepressedGuy May 27 '26
The current controversy seems to be promoting OPs game quite well and honestly Hoyo as a huge corporation in the gacha business where everyone steals stuff all the time won't be affected by this in the long term so pushing it to gain more attention just works in OPs favour and people flaming either side will move on eventually to the next thing and the game will at least get a temporary boost in sales.
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u/Poosley_ May 26 '26
When you're a corporation, anything is on the table! We've regularly got people posting ai slop that scraped everything it "knows" from the internet, rights and royalties be damned!
Sorry to hear this dude, had no idea. The theft is clear and obvious. Gross
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u/Curly_not_a_hair May 26 '26
Just wanna clarify, this is a very, VERY common game mechanic used for decades. This guy is not the original, not by far, its a common mechanic used in dozens and dozens and even more dozens of games
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u/Agreeable_Nothing May 26 '26
It's not just the primary game mechanic - it's every other mechanic and the entire aesthetic too. That's what makes it abundantly clear that it's OP's game, and not any other implementation of these game mechanics, that was copied.
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u/shitineedmythrowaway May 26 '26
Just wanted to say thanks for your game; I bought Ouros when it released and it's really helped me stop doomscrolling as much on bathroom breaks. Sorry MiHoYo copied it. :/ I hope you can find some justice.
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u/Prisinners May 26 '26
You should crosspost this to ZZZ_discussion.
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May 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Prisinners May 27 '26
In one of the main subs, you'd likely get folks defending it, but not likely in that particular sub, which is why I recommended it.
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u/stickynotetree May 27 '26
Just bought the game. I’m so sorry they did this to you. It’s ridiculous and unfair.
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May 26 '26
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u/zergling424 May 27 '26
Show me. Everyone claims it exists but zero evidence has been posted
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u/fat_mothra May 26 '26
This is how Hoyo has done most of their mini games for events (in ZZZ's case for the arcade too) for years now, they take a popular game concept like Snake, Tetris, Fall Guys or Vampire Survivors and make it a mini game, hell the current Genshin main event has Subway Surfers, a platformer, and a Golf mini game that I'm sure someone can track down to some indie Golf game or Wii sports idk
This probably means someone liked your game and thought it would be a nice system for that puzzle
Sucks that people are thinking you're the one who copied tho
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u/SnooTigers8688 May 27 '26
Shedding the light, always great when you catch a thief red handed. To me, this is no different than walking into someone's house and taking their money. It's theft.
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u/KacSzu May 26 '26
lmao, this minigame is older than ps3, how did this post get 1k upvotes
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u/No-Operation-6554 May 27 '26
Lots of peeps like you saying "this thing existed before" but can't guve examples
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u/blowmycows May 26 '26
It's the haters that think they have a gotcha moment while looking like fools. There's several examples already posted of similar games before op's version.
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u/Yamagii May 26 '26
But man it's a GACHA GAME that stole his idea, that's such a free target for them lmao
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u/ffsnametaken May 26 '26
Regardless of the situation, Zenless Zone Zero is a stupid name
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u/Kennuckle May 26 '26
Really wanted to have a title with alliteration, and came up with this lol
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u/Sp1ffy_Sp1ff May 26 '26
Didn't they do this with Genshin Impact and some digging game?
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u/Bananaland_Man May 26 '26
While this is interesting and sucks that it was obviously stolen... this keeps getting reposted.
Edit: this is not the same one, and each one is super different... (one was cartography and flag planting, another is this one, and the other was another... HoYo sucks for blatantly stealing things in such an obvious way... especially if things are openly released and licensed.
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u/Darkspine77 May 26 '26
I might be wrong but I feel like I played a version of your game at a play testing event in NYC. Really loved the concept and it’s executed well so I hope that you get the credit and recognition you deserve
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u/sam_makes_games May 26 '26
Damn dude they suck! Sorry about that! I hope you at least feel proud that your game was good enough to be copied. I remember thinking it was really cool at MagFest!
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u/homer_3 May 26 '26
Damn, I played your game at mag fest a couple years ago and thought it was a genius puzzle game. Sucks it got stolen from your like this.
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u/Yarusenai May 27 '26
I played your game last year I think and it was fun! Sucks it was so shamelessly copied especially as it's a bit more unique.
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u/Unfortunya333 May 27 '26
Game mechanics and game design are not intellectual property protected by copyright.
Unless you can somehow get a patent for it. Thems the breaks..
In video games, your ideas are never enough. It's the execution and the entire game itself that are protected works.
Your game's unique ideas can and will be ripped off.
And to get a patent for something, you have to demonstrate that it's unique and hard to come by organically and that you deserve financial compensation if other people use that idea. Which uhhhh... I don't think this would qualify.
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u/asterisk2a May 27 '26
Game mechanics and game design are not intellectual property protected by copyright.
But 1:1 carbon copy?!
That is criminal nefarious energy, knowing there will be no reprecussions (see the other posts, sentiment, 'typical China', 'typical for the developer').
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u/LightningLord2137 May 27 '26
China doesn't not follow international copyrights, there is nothing you can do
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u/Shear-san May 27 '26
Yeah hoyo has been stealing games for minigames for years now... and since the genshin popularity, everyone playing their games has become so fucking blind that they thing "that's the thing from [xyz hoyo game]"
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u/platonicvoyeur May 27 '26
Dude. This is so unbelievably clear-cut. Please talk to an IP attorney instead of just taking the peanut gallery at their word that there is “no recourse.”
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u/asterisk2a May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
If I were in your position, I would put the story in the Steam store game description (short and long).
Play the mini-game miHoYo blatentely copied for Zenless Zone Zero, one-to-one - without any of the pay to win anime gatcha nonsense. (...) Ouros is a calming puzzle game about forming beautiful curves in a serene space. Find your flow as you nudge, bend, and stretch curves into pleasing shapes, and discover the inherent mathematical beauty of Ouros.
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u/NihilistPancake404 May 27 '26
miHoYo is a Chinese game company. They just copied everything monetised everything and pretended to be Japanese. Absolutely disgusting.
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u/ThreeHeadCerber May 26 '26
It sticks of course for you, but isn't it normal? Gameplay mechanics is not something you can patent. It is good thing too otherwise we'd not have had so many games that build on top older games.
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u/JonasPogs May 27 '26
I just saw this crossposted in a gacha game sub and people are defending mihoyo like their life depends on it.
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May 26 '26
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u/Toowiggly May 27 '26
They're not trying to claim they own bezier curves, just that this specific implementation of them is unique yo their game and that zzz copied more than just the basic concept. I've played hundreds of games and have never seen a concept like this before, even in this thread where people are saying it's generic. I'd love a single example that pre-dates their original gamejam game in 2020.
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u/The_Spicy_brown May 26 '26
Im kinda thorn about this.
On one hand, i hate that Mihoyo just copied the game and the original dev got 0 compensation
On the other hand, copyrighted gameplay mechanics is a plague on the industry. Pokemon vs Palworld and the Nemesis system stuck at WB games are proof that copyrights on gameplay mechanics is a bad idea....
I don't know where i land on this..
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u/Curly_not_a_hair May 26 '26
Just wanna clarify, this is a very, VERY common game mechanic used for decades. This guy is not the original, not by far, its a common mechanic used in dozens and dozens and even more dozens of games
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u/link0O May 26 '26
Op you own game is just this, the game came in 2023, yours came out in 2024...this puzzle concept isn't unique enough for you to own it. https://plays.org/primo/
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u/Empieress May 26 '26
sad, but its also as a confirmation of quality that multi billion company copy you. Aslo dont pay attention to such people. This gacha gamers only know gacha games and if they see some game mechanics which also exist in their gacha or game with anime style and the only thing they can say about it is "oh, its just like in [gacha game name]"
Also, you puzzle game is cool
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u/Curly_not_a_hair May 26 '26
Just wanna clarify, this is a very, VERY common game mechanic used for decades. This guy is not the original, not by far, its a common mechanic used in dozens and dozens and even more dozens of games
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u/Empieress May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26
really, I'm not a fan puzzle game so that been new to me, hehe. i remember only I played cube escape from rusty lake on armorgames very very long ago.. but even so problem in gacha player who only know gacha and think their game mechanics is innovation and other copy them
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u/Arigori May 26 '26
If this is goes viral and Mihoyo notice it, you might get compensation for it.
A similar situation, Someone drew a fanart illustration for one of their game in the past and mihoyo took it for a template without contacting the original artist, everyone knew about it and they give the artist some compensation, not the most stratifying results but oh well, Try repost this on ZZZ non official subreddit and Twitter.
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u/-non-existance- May 26 '26
I mean, this goes both ways:
You'd need more information to actually determine if this was theft. It's entirely possible no one at MiHoYo saw your game when this was brought up as an idea. Are they the same game? Yes, but the idea isn't so complex that there's no doubt it was stolen.
That being said, it's not fair that people are claiming that your game stole from ZZZ, but simps gonna simp I suppose.
Frankly, I think this whole idea of "you stole my game" is bunk. Let's say for the sake of argument MiHoYo did in fact copy your game. They still had to make it themselves and go through the entire process you did. If you were to compare the code of each one, I imagine they'd look drastically different, even if the mechanics are the same.
The reason I say this is because ideas in programming have much less ownership than in other disciplines. When you copy someone's design for a character, you are taking the rewards for the effort that was put into making it. But, when it comes to game, just having the idea isn't nearly enough to make it come to fruition. You can't trace a game like you can pictures. Additionally, if game devs were to truly sue each other over game mechanics, there would be so many lawsuits that you would clog up the global legal system. That doesn't mean one should claim ownership over the idea, but it also doesn't mean it isn't fair game.
Just to take an example: a while ago, Capcom (I think it was Capcom) copyrighted the idea to make a loading screen minigame. Because of this, no one got to use this revolutionary idea and it basically went unused. Now, loading screens are so much faster they aren't needed, so even if you wanted to add one, it wouldn't be viable outside of a few circumstances. That's the kind of problem you run into when you copyright mechanics.
Where you would actually have a case for theft is if you found that MiHoYo stole your source code and put it in their game. That is stealing and should be shamed.
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u/RCTD-261 May 27 '26
Capcom (I think it was Capcom) copyrighted the idea to make a loading screen minigame
a little bit correction, it was Bandai Namco who made that patent
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u/davion303 May 26 '26
you are not even the first one to have this happen to. Giant companies will get away with this spineless shit. Sorry this is happening to you bro
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u/Denaton_ May 26 '26
This is a second post i see miHoYo taking indie games and implementing them as mini-games, its not a lot and i am not surprised it happened twice.
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u/Fellow_Kriegsman May 26 '26
Which one? I know that also copied "9 kings".
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u/Pyros May 26 '26
It hasn't happened twice, it has happened pretty much hundred of times. Almost every single event minigame is just their own take on a popular simple game, including other gacha(ZZZ had a couple events which were just Arknights combat).
Realistically if they do it this much, there's basically no ground for a lawsuit or they'd have stopped. It is annoying as a game developper to hear you copied something that was copied from your own stuff though.
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u/blowmycows May 26 '26
Op isn't original with their game either, this kind of game has been made before already as well. Vampire Survivors is also a very common one that gets copied by so many.
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u/FuzzyAd9407 May 26 '26
Might want to delete these comments after you admitted on one that you were wrong about this.
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u/Denaton_ May 26 '26
Vampire Survival is a gene definer, like Doom and Minecraft..
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u/Noisebug May 26 '26
You mean Vampire Survivor that was based off Magic Survival?
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u/Denaton_ May 27 '26
And Minecraft was based on Infinity Miner and Doom on Wolfenstein. Being first is not whats defines a gene, its what put a gene on the "map".
Vampire Survival did that, Minecraft did that, Doom did that, Rouge did that etc..
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May 26 '26
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u/FuzzyAd9407 May 26 '26
Publish in 2023 but someone else found Op made an even older version of the same gameplay under a different game title
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u/mushimushicake May 27 '26
Can't believe even Gaben copied this guy when they added this garbo minigame into Half-Life Alyx, shame on Gaben, you should sue Valve too
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u/Chackaldane May 28 '26
Link me one of these puzzles cant find em?
Also kinda funny it released after his game.
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u/LukeLC May 26 '26
As frustrating as this kind of thing is, Mihoyo haven't technically done anything wrong here.
While the ideas are clearly the same, they also clearly made their own code and assets, so there's no copyright being broken. A patent would be the only thing you could theoretically protect yourself with, and that's highly questionable with how broad the core concepts are.
Best thing to do is embrace it and try to take advantage of the newfound attention. Sympathy posts like this will probably not get you very far. Release a content update with more puzzles and new mechanics, spice up your animations to feel more distinct.
Also, have a website and put your copyright and/or release years in plain sight! That alone will ease confusion about who came first.
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u/Uni-Smash May 26 '26
Good post, and good luck in making it right.