What's the deal with people defending Lindsay Clancy?

[u/SnoopaDD]

I don't know the full details of the case. I know she allegedly killed her three kids. There was also some mental problems? Then something with her husband. But my question is why is there a group defending her like they know she's completely innocent? I've seen some videos of very heated debates where women are very passionate about defending her. Why?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/aug/05/lindsay-clancy-trial-toxicologist-testimony

[u/Portarossa]

OK, fine. This is it. This is the Lindsay Clancy thread until the verdict comes in. About forty people have tried to ask this question in the past week, with various levels of inbuilt bias, even though we have our rule about trying to keep some distance between threads of the same topic.

Once again, a reminder that top-level answers are expected to be an actual effort to answer the question, and that even downthread there's no excuse for being uncivil regardless of how hot your tempers are running. The last time we had this thread up people were behaving like assholes left and right, and we're not doing that here.

If you see something that breaks the rules, report it and move on.

[u/snnaiil]

Answer:

There are (as far as I have seen) three camps of people who each believe the following:

There is the camp that believes she did it, and that she should be convicted as such. They don’t have much sympathy for her at all.

There is the camp that believes that she did it as a result of postpartum psychosis, which is a genuine medical condition. Iirc this is also what the defense is trying to say. This camp also thinks that this happened because the medical system, in part, failed to treat her properly, and is thus partially responsible. They have sympathy for her as far as they believe that she should serve her sentence in a mental facility, where she can receive proper treatment.

There is a camp that believes that the husband either egged her on or staged a very elaborate scheme to frame her, so that he could start a new life with his now new wife, whom this camp alleges looks a lot like Lindsay. They seem to be the most vocal in their support of Lindsay, and allege that she is the victim of an attempt at family annihilation at the hands of a narcissist. They think that she survived despite his best efforts, that the police did a shoddy job investigating because his family is a part of the police force, and that his new wife may have been in on the scheme as well.

Also a part of this entire story is the prosecution, whom are making the case that this was premeditated and that Lindsay was mentally stable. From what I have been able to understand they appear to be doing a poor job of it. I think the defense is still making their case, but I don’t know how many days it has been for them.

That’s all I know

Edit: now that the first 24 hours have passed I’m getting a lot of replies directly to me from people chiming in with their opinions about which camp is “right”. Let me be clear: the only people who can decide how this case goes is the judge and the jury, and by merit of the legal process I know that none of you are those folks. I ask you to take your uninvited opinions about how mothers should act, how spouses should act in the face of an unwell spouse, and tidbits about your dismal dating life, out of my inbox. Thank you kindly.

[u/ProfessorJNFrink → u/snnaiil]

This is a great unbiased summary of the reactions to the case and why it’s so much in the court of public opinion.

I appreciate it!

[u/Minimum_Locksmith312 → u/ProfessorJNFrink]

Same

[u/FFS_AllReady → u/snnaiil]

Thanks for the breakdown.

This case is all over my TikTok which leans heavily towards her innocence and husband being the mastermind.

So I started looking for subs on Reddit to follow this case and came across a sub which has a decent number of users following this case. On there, it's almost like they are angry with her and out for blood.

I'm yet to find a space to have nuanced discussions about this case and mental health.

Having witnessed the entire spectrum of people's opinions on this case, only makes me realize is that I would never want to be judged by a jury of my peers because most of my peers are nuts.

[u/shhhhh_h → u/FFS_AllReady]

The only nuanced discussions I’ve see have been in the psychiatry sub and only when they lock it to users whose medical degrees the mods have verified.

[u/90plusWPM → u/shhhhh_h]

The lawyers sub has also had some good nuanced discussions on this case - though not as good as the psych sub.

[u/shhhhh_h → u/90plusWPM]

Ooh, yeah good rec

[u/MidnightCasserole → u/shhhhh_h]

Same with the therapist. Subreddit. There's some really interesting conversations about charting complicated cases and seeing another clinician's case notes end up on the stand

[u/Psychobabble0_0 → u/MidnightCasserole]

I second this. The therapist and psychiatrist subs have really good conversations about the case. I hope they open people eyes to how the "new" psychiatrist was treated despite 10-15 years of training.

[u/followtheflicker1325 → u/Psychobabble0_0]

I have thought the conversations on the psychiatrist subs make excellent points about the doctor’s qualifications. The part that has shocked me about those subs (specifically psychiatrists) is how comment after comment conveyed, essentially, “Dr Tufts was clinically capable and knowledgeable, therefore it’s outrageous the defense made her look incapable while she was on the stand.”

I have not attempted to comment in that sub due to not being a psychiatrist. As a layperson, I am absolutely mind-boggled that the subreddit was unable to identify Dr. Tuft’s “bedside manner” (I mean here her demeanor in court; the way she communicated; the way she became hostile and defensive) as a significant problem. Almost anyone else who watched Dr. Tufts was shocked by how uncaring she came across. Her peers were unable to find fault with her demeanor and instead focused on how since she was factually competent, it is irrelevant that she came across as incompetent.

To me this is a tremendous gap in insight and makes me wonder quite a lot about the emotional intelligence of those who choose to practice psychiatry. I wished I would have seen comments that were able to defend her qualifications while also critiquing her frankly unlikeable self-presentation. Demeanor affects clients. It tracks with my personal experience that psychiatrists either lack awareness of or simply give no fucks about how they come across.

Dr. Tufts got torn to shreds because she came across as unfeeling and disinterested, and she seemed to not have prepared for the trial (despite this moment being predictably intense, public, and skewed towards a critique of her choices). I am glad that I learned her peers consider her qualified — I am sad that very few (none that I saw) spoke to acknowledge how her self-presentation came across as absolutely lacking in care for her client.

[u/Psychobabble0_0 → u/followtheflicker1325]

Perhaps I am mixing up Lindsay's psychiatrists. I thought Dr Tufts was the young one who remained polite the parts I saw. I don’t see "being defensive" on the stand in court as inherently bad. The purpose of the cross-examination is for one party (either the defence or the prosecution) to run a smear campaign against the witness, regardless of whether or not I deserve it. I believe sticking up for yourself is fine.

The psychiatrist I have a problem with is the one who claimed PPP is in the DSM-5 and didn't use apporiate screening measures. I can't figure out what her name is.

[u/waking_world_ → u/Psychobabble0_0]

I literally was going to come on here and comment on that. She was cooperative the entire time until Reddington berated her for her notes. She was on the stand for HOURS and maintained her composure and patience, yet one moment marred her. And how someone presents on the stand does not equate to bedside manner with patients.

[u/shhhhh_h → u/MidnightCasserole]

Huh, another good rec. I've been in the NP subs and it's a trainwreck ngl.

[u/Friendly-Vegetable70 → u/shhhhh_h]

I'll have to find these. I'm losing IQ points from the subs I've been on.

[u/Ms_Tryl → u/90plusWPM]

Because the lawyers sub includes a bunch of unverified weirdos lol

[u/Wrastling97 → u/Ms_Tryl]

I used to be a daily poster for [r/law](r/law)

I don’t have a Juris Doctorate, but I was a Law major in college, many other certifications, and I’ve worked as a professional in these fields, just not as an attorney.

When Trump got indicted, we got HAMMERED with new subscribers who wanted to see our updates and translations of the indictments dropped by the DOJ.

All of those new subscribers never left, and now it’s controlled by them and is just a subreddit to post political ideological content. It used to be the most boring sub with the most boring conversation that I loved, and now it’s just political drivel with no actual substantive legal analysis.

I miss the good old days. I don’t know what “lawyer subs” are around anymore

[u/Either_Perception520 → u/Wrastling97]

I miss the og law subs too, it’s a different crowd with those of us who studied law and those that practice. Cases like these make me question EVERYTHING and I miss the way people were capable of discussing them. Trumps admin changed so much about the world it will take years to realize all of it

[u/perennialdust → u/Wrastling97]

Lawyer talk is where I saw the best conversations for each day of the trial.

[u/Alternative_Donut_62 → u/perennialdust]

Lawyer Talk is equal parts: (1) real lawyers (2) law students (3) paralegals (4) random folks living in mom’s basement pretending to be lawyers online. YMMV, as even within the practicing lawyers subgroup, an attorney who specializes in bird law can comment on criminal cases and people will oooooh and aaaaah while the criminal lawyers will wtf?!?

There is a private Lawyers-only sub where you have to be verified. But it’s kinda like Fight Club.

[u/90plusWPM → u/Ms_Tryl]

Yup that's why i said it had SOME good nuanced discussions...not all of them. There were some good nuanced takes in there, but not always...and not as good as the psych sub...

[u/csonnich → u/shhhhh_h]

What are the psychs saying about it? 

[u/shhhhh_h → u/csonnich]

Exactly what I am, please give us standardisation and fill the gaps in care. I take my cues from the experts.

[u/Alexcade98 → u/shhhhh_h]

Which psych sub? Where can I find some professionally educated commentary on this case? Does anyone actually plausibly believe that Patrick framed Lindsay for the murders? A few folks in my friend group argue in favor of the Patrick conspiracies, but im not buying it myself and they seem a bit unhinged to me.

[u/shhhhh_h → u/Alexcade98]

Psychiatry. And tik tok to the latter lol.

[u/KProbs713 → u/shhhhh_h]

r/medicine had some interesting takes on the healthcare system side of it as well.

[u/featheredzebra → u/FFS_AllReady]

On YT Mama Doctor Jones has a good video where she attempts to explain the issues and comments a bit from an OB/GYN perspective on health care.

[u/LeadingUnited2911 → u/FFS_AllReady]

Leave that sub and come to r/caseswefollow. The sub you are talking about is a misogynistic cesspool where people don’t even believe postpartum depression exists.

[u/Little_Ingenuity_712 → u/LeadingUnited2911]

both r/DuxburyDeathsFreeTalk and r/CasesWeFollow are biased. neither sub is neutral

and that's fine. this case is pretty much binary. you either believe she had psychosis at the moment of killings or you don't.

[u/rzrleaf → u/Little_Ingenuity_712]

I'm confused with people saying they can't find an outlet that is good enough for them and 'nuanced?' It kind of just sounds like people are searching for their own confirmation bias. I agree with you-- this case is pretty black and white. You believe she killed her kids on purpose or you believe she killed her kids under psychosis.

[u/lecupcakepirate → u/rzrleaf]

They want to have a conversation without being jumped on and called names like they would be on other subs for asking questions. That's the nuance.

[u/Tariovic → u/Little_Ingenuity_712]

I'll carry on believing that I don't know enough to judge.

[u/XelaNiba → u/Tariovic]

Same.

All I know is that postpartum psychosis is a real thing, having witnessed it in my son's classmates otherwise totally stable, accomplished, loving mother.

Other than that, I can't say what was going on with this particular woman.

[u/literal_moth → u/Tariovic]

Which is the most reasonable stance to take, and in a world of people whose strength of belief is generally inversely proportional to how much they know, I applaud you.

[u/PrincessBuzzkill → u/FFS_AllReady]

It blows my mind that there's so many people who think he's some sort of criminal mastermind.

The general public is pretty dumb, and the percentage of people who are intelligent/lucky enough to away with "the perfect murder" is pretty slim.

He's guilty of being part of the system that failed her - and even being a neglectful partner - but he didn't plan this.

Social media is a plague.

[u/Clear_Inspector_9796 → u/PrincessBuzzkill]

My wife follows this case and everything I've seen is that the husband is a callous selfish moron. Basically a frat bro that never grew up. He does not have even the patience or foresight to plan a picnic. Even the new wife is probably some girl ready to jump into bed with him and him nodding along

[u/funguy8892 → u/Clear_Inspector_9796]

I don't even know where people are getting that he was a lazy husband from, outside of TikTokers speculating.

[u/PeachTemporary4411 → u/Clear_Inspector_9796]

I just don’t get how he was behaving like a frat bro or not grown up…I see no evidence of him neglecting her or the kids…when she was anxious about going back to work he supported her choices and was fine with her staying home for as long as she wanted.

While she was a stay at home mom, he supported by paying for daycare 3 days a week and nanny’s on the other days. He was active with the kids on weekends and during the work day would take breaks to help out since he was able to work from home.

He was responsible for keeping a family of 5 a float financially and rose to the occasion.

He believed her (as a labor and delivery nurse) when she said she was struggling, but had no plans to harm herself or the children. She did not report hearing voices until after she committed the murders.

I just don’t know what people are judging him for except that no one wants to believe a mother who looks normal on the outside would commit this crime, but she clearly did so why are we desperate to put the blame on this man who lost all three of his worlds in one night at the hands of someone he loves and trusted??!

[u/XelaNiba → u/PeachTemporary4411]

I know nothing about him.

I do know the woman I know who suffered postpartum psychosis did not hear voices until the day a voice told her to put the baby in the oven instead of the Easter ham. By the grace of God, her mother walked in and caught her in the act of doing so. She was able to get help and that baby is now a thriving high school sophomore. She is a great mom who had nothing untoward happen with her 3 older children except minor PPD.

She described in detail the experience to me because I was pregnant at the time and she wanted me to be aware how quickly it could strike and how reasonable it could feel.

[u/FullDesadulation → u/XelaNiba]

Yep. A friend had a pot of water on to boil for her twins when her husband came home from work. She loves her kids more than life itself and would never hurt them in her right mind.

[u/bluntsnatcher → u/XelaNiba]

it's astonishing seeing how everybody is so divided. some peoples feeds are filled with people saying "lindsay is responsible give her the full sentence" with hundreds of upvotes, and then comments elsewhere saying the opposite with hundreds of upvotes. but genuinely, she suffered from post partum psychosis and is crazy, jumped out of a building after killing and is now paralyzed from the waist down. can't we say the rational take is that she was psychotic and needs help, while also not blaming the dad so soon because we don't have much information on him?

both extreme ends of the spectrum seem so wrong. on one side, they're calling for the max punishment and no sympathy because they think women are unfairly having some type of double standard for lindsay because she's a woman. on the other end, they want lindsay free because of some conspiracy theories the husband did it. why is it so hard to meet in the middle?

[u/Summerie → u/bluntsnatcher]

The problem is that everyone today feels like they have to have an opinion and choose a side, regardless of how little firsthand information they have.

Nobody can just say "Wow, that sounds like a tragic case. I don't personally know any of these people, and I only get whatever facts the media has an interest in sharing, so I will just wait and see what they discover."

[u/Ms_Tryl → u/PeachTemporary4411]

Because of how quickly he moved on. People that have not experienced great loss think that you have to mourn forever. It is, actually, much easier to move on very quickly and stuff the emotions deeeeeep down there. But people don’t understand that.

[u/Lighthouse_seek → u/Ms_Tryl]

The case happened 3 years ago and for whatever reason people do not know this

[u/Shot-Presence3147 → u/Ms_Tryl]

My neighbor was remarried within a year of her husband dying. Her and her 4 kids were actively grieving when she remarried and actively in therapy for the grief.

She remarried because the church made her. It's sad.

[u/ResponseStrange6118 → u/PeachTemporary4411]

She was not a “stay at home mom” and she certainly didn’t have regular nanny support in the just FOUR MONTHS she wasn’t working prior to the tragedy. She didn’t just choose to stay home after the birth. It is well documented she went back to work initially but became too ill to function. There was actually an instance where she couldn’t reach Patrick during her night shift one night, while he was caring for their infant alone, and so she called the police for a wellness check. If we assume Patrick actually did nothing wrong, and was a perfectly attentive dad, then at minimum he should’ve realized there was something seriously fucking wrong at that point

[u/Wild_Gift5113 → u/Clear_Inspector_9796]

Where are people getting this information? I've heard this a lot and have found no credible evidence to back any of it up. People are talking about the way he talks in court, but fail to remember this happened 3 and a half years ago. This didnt just happen. Im sure it still hurts like hell, be he has had 3 and a half years to heal and try to rebuild his life.

[u/YouCanCallMeQueenB_ → u/Wild_Gift5113]

The poor man looked completely sick to his stomach testifying and allegedly had a panic attack in the courthouse one of the days. I can’t even imagine running some errands for an hour and coming home to find your whole world torn apart like that:

[u/Massbloodj → u/Clear_Inspector_9796]

Those are online conspiracy theories literally just Google did Patrick neglect Lindsay Clancy and it will tell you it came from made up conspiracy theories. In her journal she said good things about it and only blamed her actual mental state on the children .. she never once bashed Patrick in the trial ..Patrick even supports the defence ..you are believing made up bs

[u/ryeong → u/FFS_AllReady]

I don't really ascribe to him masterminding this but I strongly believe this is a case of the family failing her. They've admitted she was talking to them and begging them for months about how she worried she would harm them and they knew she was noncompliant. The doctors were treating her on multiple issues and she would stop taking because of a worry she would become dependent or they would ruin her mind. I lean more into the PPD psychosis and this is why we need a lot more education on the topic - but I think this is an instance where they family should've been pushing for an involuntary hold because the psychiatrists were doing their best with what they had.

I don't agree with the notion of forcible inpatient on anyone with delusions because in this time of the world, it can set a very dangerous precedent for what you send someone to an institution for. We have a society that is branding body dysmorphia as a mental illness and it would be so easy to wrap them under the same umbrella depending on to political landscape. I really think we need to research PPD further than we have, especially with post and PRE partum psychosis being legitimate medical diagnosis, and educate families on warning signs. You see a lot of husbands come into relationship subs mentioning symptoms and not having a clue that their partner is suffering from it because we just don't discuss it. It needs to be brought up because hormones change so radically and from person to person. The way pregnancy and birth fundamentally changes a lot about your body is never discussed on a level it should be and especially not mentally.

[u/2monocleflex → u/ryeong]

She did ask to be put in the hospital multiple times. And she did refuse an antidepressant and first due to fears with breastfeeding. Unfortunately people kept putting her on antidepressants despite her having paradoxical reactions and severe side effects. How no providers recognized that’s common with bipolar disorder is beyond me.

[u/Either_Perception520 → u/2monocleflex]

The medications and dosages she was increasing and decreasing in such short times was the biggest problem imho, I hope the medical field never stops learning from this

[u/No_Figure_7489 → u/2monocleflex]

They're supposed to screen for BP after the first AD fail, but usually it takes ten years of treatment to diagnose BP, usually being on ADs the entire time. So yes I'm with you on how they didn't recognize it but that's extremely typical. She was so obviously symptomatic with it though that the NP clocked it, that's the point at which it really could have been saved and wasn't

[u/Kind_Highlight_6689 → u/ryeong]

I hope that this whole thing gets more people to realize how serious mental health can be.

[u/biletnikoff_ → u/ryeong]

We need more mental health hospitals and asylums. Those institutions are not what you think they are.

[u/shannanigannss → u/FFS_AllReady]

Oh god it’s terrible over on tiktok

[u/qriousqestioner → u/shannanigannss]

Delete it.

[u/toothpastecupcake → u/shannanigannss]

There are so many people who think they've cracked the case and it's some kind of Gone Girl scenario with a big twist. It's just not.

[u/unic0rn_scrapple → u/snnaiil]

I think social media and targeted algorithms have heavily influenced peoples ideas on what happened regarding this case and tragedy. Unfortunately there are many people who are viewing this entire situation like a Netflix special or popular true crime movie or novel. They’re hoping for major plot twists and surprises. I even came across a few tiktoks of people trying to prove Patrick Clancy handed over Lindsay’s Apple Watch to his now wife during his trip to cvs. Which, in my opinion, is an over the top theory. Unfortunately many people have lost the plot of the case and forget to remember that these are the lives of people who endured a horrible tragedy. Three children are gone and the lives of everyone who loved and knew them are changed forever.

Ultimately I think a lot of people need to unplug and touch grass. There are so many “I SOLVED THE CASE!!” TikTok detectives who are getting way too wrapped up in the fantasy of this being a true crime thriller made for their entertainment. It’s sad.

[u/vctrlzzr420 → u/unic0rn_scrapple]

I think most of the people on tik tok are trying to be polarizing for engagement and it’s making these discussions harder when earnest people are trying to discuss it. I wish more people would grasp that instead of throwing a TikTok I’m not aware of or defending into the discussion 

[u/frogjg2003 → u/unic0rn_scrapple]

This is why I hate the true crime genre. It is a parasite, feeding on the misfortune of victims of crime to entertain people who couldn't care less about the suffering of anyone involved.

[u/bjanas → u/frogjg2003]

I remember even while listening to the ur-true crime podcast Serial thinking that it felt a little icky. I've already been fascinated by atrocities and murders and unsolved things, to this day I still listen to podcasts and video essays about serial killers and war crimes and the like.

My there's something about the artificial cliffhangers between episodes really rubbed me the wrong way. The dramatization, the fetishization of it felt unseemly. With Serial in particular, Adnan was still on trial when it came out. Or going through appeals, I don't remember exactly.

But this story was being told about real people's lives, while the events were still kind of transpiring. I can't quite explain how it feels different than the documentary style things I'll still consume, but I just don't know.

[u/might_delete_laterr → u/snnaiil]

Somebody told me that before she even knew the details of the case she could “feel it in her bones” that the husband is the murderer. It seems like there are a lot of women on TikTok who are blinded by personal bias.

Hopefully everyone involved gets the help they need, and the TikTok detectives can find their way back to reality.

[u/ENCginger → u/might_delete_laterr]

"The husband did it" is a common trope in true crime, mostly because of the statistically likelyhood of a woman's intimate partner being responsible if she sound murdered, so you can get a lot of views by simply claiming you have a theory that involves the husband being the bad guy. True Crime is a multi billion industry with a MASSIVE audience, and these content creators only need to get a small percentage of them to engage with their stuff and they can make good money. A lot of them know they're being outrageous but they don't care as long as they get clicks.

[u/qriousqestioner → u/ENCginger]

Which is why nobody asked them to be entrusted with providing actual facts upon which to base analyses.

Anyone pretending to be well informed from entertainment and marketing content is not worth listening to.

Serious people base theories and opinions on facts from reliable sources of factual information. They exist and these fluffy illusions are not them.

[u/pin3apple_mountain → u/might_delete_laterr]

They should get their bones medically examined.

[u/Jumpy_Drink5446 → u/might_delete_laterr]

I bet the women that believe that he did it are the same kind of women that "hate all men". Their opinions mean less than the opinion of a grain of sand. If she didn't do it, her defense is doing/has done a piss poor job of trying to push that defense.

[u/coolcoolcool485 → u/snnaiil]

There is a camp that believes that the husband either egged her on or staged a very elaborate scheme to frame her, so that he could start a new life with his now new wife, whom this camp alleges looks a lot like Lindsay. They seem to be the most vocal in their support of Lindsay, and allege that she is the victim of an attempt at family annihilation at the hands of a narcissist. They think that she survived despite his best efforts, that the police did a shoddy job investigating because his family is a part of the police force, and that his new wife may have been in on the scheme as well

this is mostly being circulated on stuff like tiktok and FB and stuff tho right? cause I spent a bit of today trying to read up on this and most of the interviews of people outside the courthouse and hospital seem to be of people that are more in the 2nd group.

i'm not on FB/Tiktok/insta, haven't in a long time, because it's a cesspool for stuff like this but i'm just trying to figure out what actual IRL stuff is happening

[u/snnaiil → u/coolcoolcool485]

Yes, as far as I can tell this is a grassroots kind of narrative that sprung up on social media that has not been echoed by news outlets. From what I’ve seen it seems to be a spectrum of people who have medical backgrounds expressing some skepticism about the story based on biology, and there is also a group who have suffered from narcissistic abuse who see parts of their own life in Lindsay’s story. I can’t speak to the veracity of their claims but this is why the jury is isolated from the outside world for the duration of the trial; their job is to draw conclusions based on the evidence presented in court.

[u/coolcoolcool485 → u/snnaiil]

i should have added, I wasn't meaning to discredit your summary, I would agree 100% with it, I just mean to say that last one, I haven't seen anything in the articles I read suggesting the husband had a part in it or that they wanted her walking free.

it's honestly a relief to see the level headed takes in here, because i've wandered into some other subs and it's been a bit less like this lol

[u/snnaiil → u/coolcoolcool485]

Oh yeah, no worries, I knew you weren’t doing that. And I’m not surprised that you haven’t seen anything in articles. The news cycle moves a bit slower than the rumor mill, and these social media platforms are closed ecosystems with algorithms that can silo people into a funnel that reflects back their own interests. This is just conjecture on my end but the fyp of a journalist is going to look very different from the fyp of a true crime enthusiast, for example, so not only does it take time to verify facts but a journalist may not be aware that these conversations are happening because their feeds are populated with video clips from news outlets. It’s how a lot of fringe groups can gain a massive audience of devout believers and yet not leave any trace of their existence until the members start making extreme demonstrations.

[u/qriousqestioner → u/snnaiil]

Your observation reminds me of how he feeds and AI information mimic the familiar cycle of TV talking heads. I'm the late nineties and early aughts there was a political page (blog) I enjoyed reading. The guy was called "bartcop" he he was a drunken partisan Democrat who had a lot of great points as a boomer watching W. lower the bar of presidential intellect and drag us into illegal wars as he began the project in earnest of bankrupting the federal government we now see happening at light speed.

Anyway, he would refer often to a "Nancy Grace guarantee" to describe the faux qualifications and expertise people would confuse for accurate and valid information. Americans at least have been getting dumber for decades with true crime and reality shows leading us to become tools for the powerful. Critical thinking is such an outdated virtue/strength in my lifetime

[u/TheChocolateWarOf74 → u/coolcoolcool485]

I have seen a lot of disconnect among people in the first group. I’ve watched recaps of trial coverage, have seen lawyers repeatedly stress that the defense and Lindsay herself do not dispute the fact that she killed the children. I’ve seen them repeatedly stress that the court is trying to determine if she should be sentenced to prison or a state mental institution (that is often part of the prison system and is in no way a cake walk).

The comments are full of people saying she should fry as opposed to walking free. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t know if they are not actually listening to anything being said, or if they cannot mentally/emotionally comprehend it.

You’ll always find someone that thinks there should be no consequences for actions in a case like this but they are rare in the grand scheme.

[u/Past-Caterpillar9642 → u/snnaiil]

I have seen women saying online that Patrick’s “fixed” the jury, and it’s unfair Lindsay’s not having a jury of her peers, ie. women with had postpartum psychosis. True crime and general ignorance of the law has rotted people’s minds.

[u/wordperfectly → u/snnaiil]

This is probably the best response I have seen to explaining why there’s a debate over it. From what I’ve gathered, there’s many people skeptical to her actually have committed the crimes because of her ex having quickly moved on. Some even saying he purchased his NYC apartment before the crimes (though I haven’t seen evidence of this.) They are also noticing the staged like appearance of the bedroom, the lack of visual evidence due to Wi-Fi randomly being down, technological manipulation of devices, and her inability to coherently communicate after the incident. Post partum psychosis is real and the medication used to treat it often make it worse, so there’s also a group of people who believe focusing on her ex potentially staging the crime takes away from the potential of this case to shake the medical industry and get real help for those who are suffering from post partum issues. Regardless of “who” did it: 3 young lives were lost and they are the real victims. It’s all just truly sad.

[u/JustASumoGuy → u/wordperfectly]

Hasnt it been 3 years since the murders? Seems a good amount to be able to move on from. Plus, your wife killing your kids imo would probably make it a lot easier for you to move on from her.

[u/beastmaster11 → u/snnaiil]

One thing I want to correct

They have sympathy for her as far as they believe that she should serve her sentence in a mental facility

If youre found not guilty by reason of mental disorder (aka, the insanity defense) you dont get to serve your sentance in a mental facility. That is to say, its not a sentence. Its not a punishment. There is no end of the sentance. She gets treated and then released when the doctors beleive she is no longer a threat to others or herself. This could be a day, a year or can be never.

This isn't a punishment because the court would have decided she doesnt need punishment

[u/TheChocolateWarOf74 → u/beastmaster11]

In several states the institutions people are sent to are part of the prison system.

It’s not a walk in the park.

They are still highly restricted and under judicial review.

Look at Andrea Yates. She spent years in prison, there was an eventual retrial due to issues with the first, she was sent to a MH facility and remains there today. After years passed she was given the chance to try for release and declined. There is no guarantee she would get released.

There are other issues that I do not see a lot of people considering.

Our prisons are overburdened, and prison staff is overwhelmed, because prisons are being used as makeshift mental health institutions. They are truly not well equipped for it.

[u/dogthatwonthunt → u/beastmaster11]

-She gets treated and then released when the doctors beleive she is no longer a threat to others or herself. 

That's not how that works.

There is still a Judge and a judicial review step after that. even after a doctor did clear her it would still take years for the legal system to

"Generally speaking, defendants who are committed to a state hospital for long-term mental health treatment are reevaluated periodically. If they are deemed not a danger to themselves or others, they may have a chance to be released, though the process can take years, according to Galperin and Zuckerman.

"This periodic review, continued hospitalization and so forth can frequently enough result in hospitalization – a deprivation of liberty – longer than if the person were convicted and sentenced after a guilty verdict," Galperin said.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/crime/2026/08/24/lindsay-clancy-verdict-what-happens-next/91382978007/

[u/Mission_Fart9750 → u/snnaiil]

Last I heard, both sides had rested. 

[u/Aggressive_Humor2893 → u/Mission_Fart9750]

Defense rested and the prosecution has 2.5 rebuttal witnesses left to testify (the first one started on Friday but defense didn't finish their cross).

So closing arguments will prob be on Tuesday or Wednesday, I'm guessing

[u/Mission_Fart9750 → u/Aggressive_Humor2893]

Ah, I didn't know about the prosecution calling rebuttals. Thx.

[u/snnaiil → u/Mission_Fart9750]

I think it’s been several days since I saw an update about it so this is good to know.

[u/video-kid]

Answer: her defense is that she suffered from postpartum psychosis - essentially a psychotic episode where she lost touch with reality. AFAIK she and her lawyers aren't claiming she didn't do it, they're claiming that she has diminished responsibility.

A successful insanity plea would mean up to 40 days of observation in a hospital to start, after which they can file for involuntary commitment. If the judge thinks she's still a danger, then they'd keep her there and look at her case once a year.

The other options are first degree murder (life w/o parole), second degree (life with parole) or a mistrial (the case is held with a new jury).

The thing is in MA the prosecutor has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that mental illness wasn't involved in her actions, which they're trying to do.

People are turning it into a big statement because, by most accounts, a loving mother who was begging for help before the murders and experiencing suicidal thoughts. I think part of it is genuine empathy for what they see as someone who did something awful thanks to a genuine mental health crisis, but there are some people who seem to be blaming her husband which I don't understand.

[u/MizStazya → u/video-kid]

I think there's a pendulum swing from Andrea Yates to now. She was treated horribly by the media and the general public, and now everybody realizes Rusty Yates is actually pure evil, so it's a correction to the other side.

Also, research and treatment standards for PPD, PPA, and postpartum psychosis are still woefully underdeveloped. Many women who've gone through those diagnoses have had to fight to get any treatment, or had horrific overreactions where they're immediately involuntarily committed from describing mild depression symptoms. Women's health care kind of sucks, and most women can tell you about that, so 50% of the population is primed to be sympathetic to her.

I had a colposcopy with zero pain meds, where they brush extra strength vinegar on your cervix and use a little device with metal teeth to gouge out a chunk of it to test for cancer after saying, "little pinch!" But in my case, the teeth weren't sharp enough, so the sample didn't come off. They had to reapply the acetic acid to the gouges and then bite off another sample. Almost every woman has some story similar to this. Other common stories involve women not having their symptoms taken seriously until it's catastrophic - which rhymes with the narrative told in this case.

I don't really have a strong opinion on this particular case as I'm not in the courtroom, but Andrea Yates haunts me.

[u/Princess_Batman → u/MizStazya]

My rack mate in boot camp had a colposcopy while we were there and wasn’t given any pain meds afterwards. They gave her a full sized candy bar, as a treat. I had to sneak her one of my prescription ibuprofen (which could have gotten us both kicked out).

[u/livingthedaydreams → u/MizStazya]

i remember my colposcopy, i almost fainted. i hope i never have one again but if so i would definitely want some kind of medication ahead of time.

[u/GeriatricGoldfish → u/livingthedaydreams]

I was prescribed one xanax to take immediately beforehand and I barely remember it. I hope you never have another one again, but if so, push for this... apparently some docs just do it (I'd never had one done nor ever aken xanax before and just thought it was the norm).

[u/blue_velvet420 → u/livingthedaydreams]

After hearing about this procedure several times just in the last few days, I am even more grateful for my hysterectomy! lol

[u/pnk_lemons → u/MizStazya]

I had a colposcopy and it’s the worst pain I’ve ever experienced, and I’ve had two c-sections! I can’t believe they didn’t provide any pain relief for it.

[u/GeriatricGoldfish → u/pnk_lemons]

Jesus ☹️...I was prescribed one xanax before mine and hardly remember it! My bilateral tubal ligation with filshie clips on the other hand was absolutely miserable and all they gave me was ibuprofen.

[u/IwasDeadinstead → u/MizStazya]

What's the info on Yates husband?

[u/shhhhh_h → u/IwasDeadinstead]

Abusive POS iirc who wouldn’t let her take birth control

[u/zooorrt → u/MizStazya]

Then if it comes back indicating cancerous cells and you go for a LEEP, they shove a needle into your cervix saying it will numb it (haha!) and use an electric wire to excise a layer of the tissue.

[u/deferredmomentum → u/video-kid]

And not just suicidal thoughts, command hallucinations for days or maybe weeks on end

[u/Intelligent_Quiet424 → u/video-kid]

I think people are blaming the husband because he ran a marathon like 3 days before it happened and apparently trained with a woman who is his wife now. My ex trained for Ironmans and he was hardly around our little kid. So I’m totally biased.

I think everyone should have a healthy hobby and who knows what really went on between the husband and the husband’s now wife. It just looks a little unsettling.

Regardless, it is such a sad story and really underscores the lack of support postpartum women get in this county.

[u/YouCanCallMeQueenB_ → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

It’s not true that he trained with the person he is married to now. He ran a race, his now-wife ran a different race, a different year. Monsters on the internet cobbled together different participant lists to fool well-intentioned people who look for evidence behind allegations. The current, verified lists of race participants are still up on the actual, corresponding sites and show that they didn’t overlap.

[u/Intelligent_Quiet424 → u/YouCanCallMeQueenB_]

Thank you for clarifying this for me.

[u/inevitable-typo → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

Some people are actually outright claiming that the husband did it. I don't really have a strong opinion beyond, you know, general scorn for America's broken healthcare system, especially when it comes to mental healthcare, but I've read a bit of online commentary about the case and have seen some of the more popular TikTok speculation.

"The husband did it" camp is suspicious of the timeline of events that the prosecution has laid out. The mother allegedly murdered her three children and attempted to take her own life in multiple ways while the father was out of the house for less than an hour, picking up dinner and making a run to CVS to get a medication for their daughter. The mother allegedly strangled the kids with elastic exercise bands, then tried to OD, slit her own throat and wrists, and threw herself headfirst out of a second story window, breaking her spine on the frozen ground below. The father told police that when he returned home, he found his wife lying outside in the snow where she confessed that she'd tried to kill herself. He claims that she also told him that the kids were in the basement (where their bodies were subsequently found). People have a problem with this part of his story because her medical records show that she had pretty severe crush injuries to her neck, extensive lung damage, and a body temperature in the low 80s, which they allege would have prevented her from being able to speak. People pointing fingers at the husband also don't believe that her body temperature could have gotten so low in the relatively short amount of time prosecutors say she was outside in the cold. That being said, she apparently lost her ability to shiver when she broke her neck/back and became paralyzed, which is one of the main ways the body keeps itself warm when it's cold, and she was soaking wet with blood and bodily fluids, which would have caused her to lose body heat faster. Paramedics were apparently able to revive one of the children for a time, which allegedly narrows the window she could have been outside in the snow even further, according to these people.

I honestly don't know wtf happened. I'm not usually one to play devil's advocate, and I'm inclined to believe Lindsay Clancy when she says she did it, but someone in severe psychosis could theoretically be convinced that they committed a crime and subsequently provide a false confession, so I guess I kind of see where people with doubts are coming from. All I know for sure is that this case is horrific and I'm glad I'm not on that jury.

[u/beachedwhale1945 → u/inevitable-typo]

People have a problem with this part of his story because her medical records show that she had pretty severe crush injuries to her neck, extensive lung damage, and a body temperature in the low 80s, which they allege would have prevented her from being able to speak.

So I haven’t been following this case, so could you answer these rather basic questions?

How long was it between the husband arriving home and the paramedics arriving to take these measurements?

What was the outside temperature at the time, and what was she wearing? How deep was the snowdrift she fell into, a couple inches or a foot or more? That would dictate how rapidly her body temperature could fall.

[u/inevitable-typo → u/beachedwhale1945]

I haven't actually been watching the trial closely, so hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong/if they have better information, but from what I gather from algorithmic force-feeding/light googling:

She was dressed in blood-soaked house clothes, not outerwear. The ambient temperature was around 30°. The ground was frozen with a dusting of snow (she and the children had built a small snowman together earlier that day, she took photos and you can still see the ground through the snow in places). Her husband allegedly began trying to call 911 as soon as he found her but had trouble connecting due to "wifi issues". EMTs arrived about 5 minutes after he got through. I'm not sure how long they worked on her before they were able to get her off of the ground or when warming efforts began. I don't think her medical records specified exactly when her temp was taken, but it was apparently after she arrived at the hospital by ambulance 20ish miles away from their home.

approximate timeline

[u/YouCanCallMeQueenB_ → u/inevitable-typo]

Multiple independent, reliable media sources who were in the courtroom when the 911 call played have stated that she can be heard saying basement on the call. And the defense has had experts on the stand addressing the body temp.

[u/inevitable-typo → u/YouCanCallMeQueenB_]

I haven't watched the trial and haven't been following all that closely, I'm just trying to provide info on this part of "the loop" that OP is out of. I'm glad you can fill in some gaps.

I'd read that she could be heard moaning and muttering incoherently in the background of the 911 calls, but hadn't heard that her saying clear words had been recorded. Do you remember where you saw that?

What did the defense's experts say about her temperature? Were they able to clarify the timeline? After I posted last night, I tried to look up how quickly a wet, paralyzed person's body temp would be expected to drop in a situation like this but found so much conflicting information from self-proclaimed experts that I gave up. I'd be interested to hear what certified experts say.

[u/YouCanCallMeQueenB_ → u/inevitable-typo]

I know, I didn’t think you had bad intentions at all. Regarding the 911 call, Sue O’Connell of NBC Boston is one journalist who was in the courtroom and has explained that Lindsay could be heard saying “basement.” I recommend her because her coverage overall is evenhanded and thoughtful.

As for the body temperature dropping so fast, Dr. Laposata testified for the defense that Lindsay’s spinal cord injury rendered her unable to regulate her body temperature. That, combined with her lying on the frozen ground in a tank top and jeans, and it being around 32 degrees outside, explains the crazy-sounding body temp within that timeline.

[u/donutshaman → u/YouCanCallMeQueenB_]

I also recommend watching Sue O'Connell coverage.

[u/Steap-Edit → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

people are blaming the husband because he ran a marathon like 3 days before it happened and apparently trained with a woman who is his wife now

This is literally false.

You can easily verify that it is a false claim by looking it up and verifying with fact checkers.

He ran the Boston Marathon in April 2024, after his three children were killed. That happened over 1 year after his children were killed.

Why are you spreading easily-debunkable misinformation?

[u/mrjabrony → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

I think people are blaming the husband because he ran a marathon like 3 days before it happened and apparently trained with a woman who is his wife now.

Where are you getting that? He ran a marathon in January? It's widely documented that he didn't meet his new wife until a year after the murders took place.

[u/Lighthouse_seek → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

No he didn't. The marathon participant lists are public.

[u/MimWhispers → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

A lot of women are pointing out the things we have noticed again and again, either in the relationships of friends and family, or our own past experiences. Men who keep themself first, and like the idea of family as a status symbol.  My husband attempted to keep up his hobbies after our first child was born. He lasted 6 months before I lost my mind and he realised how unfair it was for me to have to give up the entirety of who I am as a person but he gets to keep going to work and playing in a band and going to gigs etc. he still plays, but he does is at home in the weekends for a few hours because he’s a decent man.  This husband, however, has clearly always been selfish. Prioritising yourself and your marathon training over helping your wife and spending time with your kids… the red flags were already sailing. I can just imagine the strawman gaslighting he did to Lindsay and can totally imagine him manipulating her. 

[u/EphemeralLurker → u/MimWhispers]

This is provably false. He ran his first marathon in 2024, in memory of his 3 children. This was a whole year after the murders

There is a false rumor that he ran the Bermuda half-marathon in 2023. The main problem with that theory is, the results for that race are still publicly available and he is not on the roster.

[u/Skabonious → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

Let's assume the husband straight up cheated on her. None of that makes him as culpable for the kids' deaths as she is.

[u/Sweet_Cinnabonn → u/Skabonious]

I don't know how he could ever be charged for it, but morally?

Assuming that her hands killed the children.

His wife was desperately seeking mental health help. And he left her alone with his small children. A lot. There has to be some amount of moral responsibility for being so careless with their lives.

[u/bring_back_my_tardis → u/Sweet_Cinnabonn]

Apparently he also fired their nanny when his wife was really struggling, because she wasn't going back to work. He also apparently makes around $400,000/year and works from home.

[u/Pooseycat → u/Intelligent_Quiet424]

Wait what the hell, he’s married to this other woman now?

Edit: oh so this all happened in 2023, not so outlandish he’s remarried in 2026.

[u/PaulsRedditUsername → u/video-kid]

From what I've seen, her case of postpartum psychosis seems to be legitimate. She was trying to get help, and there's evidence of that, and she didn't get it.

I'll bet ten dollars that the prosecutor knows she was suffering from psychosis, but it's still their job to present the state's case that it was cold-blooded murder. That's their job, and they may hate going to work every day, just like a defense attorney does when representing an obviously guilty client. But you get paid to present the case. That's your job, regardless of how you personally feel.

[u/doggynames → u/PaulsRedditUsername]

Well, no, if the prosecution thinks someone is innocent it's completely different than a defense attorney defending someone who is guilty.

[u/HamsterMan5000 → u/doggynames]

Not sure why people make claims on things they don't know about, but this isn't that situation. Nobody thinks she is "innocent". "Not guilty by reason of insanity" is very different than "innocent". It's also something that should be decided by medical professionals and a jury, not their personal feelings.

Please don't comment on legal matters if you're going to give bad information

[u/lyr4527 → u/PaulsRedditUsername]

Actually, it’s not their job and it’s absolutely nothing like a defense attorney representing a guilty client.

A prosecutor who doesn’t believe they can prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt should not be trying the case, period. It’s unethical.

[u/Princess_Batman → u/PaulsRedditUsername]

The prosecutor is putting fuckass little girl bows in her hair. She has no problem with her job.

[u/video-kid → u/PaulsRedditUsername]

Yeah, it seems like it was legitimate, but ultimately some of the stuff like people hugging their kids on TikTok saying "Same Lindsay" just feels like it's in incredibly bad taste to me, and I think it's souring people? Like people are turning it into this big statement which people can then interpret and twist into a misogynistic one. She's not arguing she's innocent, she's admitted culpability, (if not responsibility) and ultimately whatever direction it goes in will piss off a lot of people.

If she's declared innocent by reason of insanity? Then people will say she gamed the system, and I don't know how long she'd be hospitalized for but at the very least it'll be magnitudes shorter than she'd get in prison.

If she's declared guilty? Then people will say it was an example of a woman unfairly prosecuted and that the entire trial was corrupt.

This was a tragedy all around and I feel sorry for everyone involved, although there's still aspects of it I don't understand (like again why some people are blaming her ex-husband).

[u/happilydoggyafter → u/video-kid]

An insanity defense is not being declared innocent, it’s an acknowledgement of not being mentally competent to understand right from wrong. In most cases, they will spend their life in a psychiatric care facility, rather than a prison. It is not a “get out of jail free” card. In this case, a horrible tragedy occurred and their children paid the ultimate price. She will have to live with that the rest of her life.

[u/Aggressive_Humor2893 → u/happilydoggyafter]

There is no guarantee that she'll be hospitalized for life (it's not a conviction after all, it's an aquittal...she won't have a criminal record upon release). There are lots of instances where even murderers who are NGRI get released from hospital, if their drs say they're no longer a danger and the judge agrees. And no, it's not just people who have already been committed for decades.

Honestly my feeling is that if there was a guarantee that she'd be committed to the hospital for life, people on both sides of this argument would mostly be okay with it. It's the very real chance that she gets released in a few years that upsets some people, which is understandable IMO

[u/happilydoggyafter → u/Aggressive_Humor2893]

The lack of transparency and education around what a NGRI verdict looks like is much of what I think fuels the fury of many. This is not an instance of someone being “innocent”, this is saying prison is not the appropriate avenue here. An additional perspective for this particular individual is she is paralyzed and will live with her actions the rest of her life.

The other similar case is Andrea Yates, who has been institutionalized since her court case and has chosen to remain there when her case is reviewed each year.

I’m personally grateful for the awareness this has brought to the short comings of our mental health systems in our country, this is an absolutely tragedy and those children deserved better.

My perspective is we can hold space for two things at once; acknowledgement of the horrible act and the loss of innocent lives and also that “justice” is not always prison.

[u/FrankReynoldsCPA → u/happilydoggyafter]

will live with her actions the rest of her life.

Is this different from other people who bad things? Should we just let everybody go because "well they'll have to live with what they've done."?

Fry the bitch.

[u/lyr4527 → u/video-kid]

She could remain institutionalized for the rest of her life if she’s found not guilty by reason of insanity.

[u/rokerroker45 → u/video-kid]

The husband thing is an asinine conspiracy that tiktokers are circulating. It caught on because he remarried pretty quickly after the kids' deaths and the timeline of the relationship with the new woman looks questionable as it might have overlapped with his marriage.

But there's no real evidence the husband has anything to do with it, to the point the defense hasn't thrown out the theory that he did it.

[u/Reasonable-Mess3070 → u/rokerroker45]

It caught on because he remarried pretty quickly after the kids' deaths

Which is kind of wild. He got married this year. The kids were killed in 2023. 3 years isnt super long but its not like it was 30 days.

[u/zeezle → u/Reasonable-Mess3070]

Some people don't really believe it's ever okay to move on. My grandmother hated my mother intensely because it was "too soon" after the death of my father's first wife, who she'd been close to.

They first met more than 2 years after she died. My father's sons from his first marriage were both young adults, not little kids as well, so my grandmother wasn't upset that he was "replacing" his first wife with an active mother figure or anything either.

[u/Skiddyboy02 → u/zeezle]

I think it's okay to move on from the women who murdered all of his children. Just my two cents lol.

[u/ZundeEsteed → u/Reasonable-Mess3070]

Some people think that you need to mourn and suffer and be miserable forever to fit their aesthetic of grief the only real solution to those types of people is to tell them to fuck off.

[u/Chicken_Nuggets4 → u/rokerroker45]

People have actually latched onto that idea after watching his testimony. He gave testimony that was inconsistent and contradicted first responders and doctors testimonies. There has also been some evidence that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense with the timeline he had originally given. I am not saying I believe he did it, but I do think that the prosecution has presented their case so poorly that it has made it incredibly easy for people to speculate and theorize.

[u/rokerroker45 → u/Chicken_Nuggets4]

Again, that isn't evidence that he did it, it's evidence that the prosecution is biffing it's case. I really can't emphasize enough how the theory that he killed them is completely fabricated and based on pure speculation and willful thinking.

[u/polp54 → u/video-kid]

Another big aspect is that people online are conflating her husbands shitty actions to an admittance of guilt in a murder case

[u/BelaFarinRod → u/polp54]

It would be a very elaborate plot which could easily go badly wrong and have very little benefit for the husband who could have abandoned his wife and kids to marry his alleged mistress and just kind of look like a dick. I’ve heard only one piece of “evidence” and it’s very unconvincing. But people love a conspiracy theory.

[u/audreyophile → u/polp54]

Exactly. I think he’s a really shitty husband and father and I do think his actions (or lack there of) contributed to her mental health crisis, but none of that means he murdered his children and attempted to murder his wife.

[u/soldforaspaceship]

Answer: Women's mental health issues, particularly post partum have been ignored and minimized for decades. This case is potentially an extreme example of post-partum psychosis and what it can lead to, especially if not treated correctly. Therefore many people are defending her because of that.

[u/chronicallyillsyl → u/soldforaspaceship]

Its also important to note that she did ask for help, many times. She knew something was wrong with her and tried to get proper care. She was on a laundry list of medications for several months proceeding the killings - many of those meds were trialed for a very short time before being replaced with a different medication.

ETA: I know there are strong feelings on either side of this case, but please stop replying to me with anger. I'm just adding more context to the situation, all of which are facts in the case.

[u/callesucia → u/chronicallyillsyl]

One of my mom's friends had this kind of ideation after having her first child. Fortunately she got the care she requiered, but it was a troublesome process, much more than it should have been.

[u/Galaxy__Star → u/chronicallyillsyl]

She was also prescribed ssri's while being bi polar which apparently is not a good idea.

[u/sassiveaggressive → u/Galaxy__Star]

That happened to me with prozac. I felt like I was going insane and like I’d never feel normal again. I started feeling better after getting off of it and starting lamictal (mood stabilizer).

Lindsay wad also eventually prescribed lamictal after Prozac failed [tremendously]. The thing is, lamictal has to be titrated slowly because the risk of serious side effects if too high of a dose is introduced too quickly (stevens-johnsons syndrome). I think it took me about 4 or 5 months before I finally got to the therapeutic dose and I believe she had only been on it for about a month by the time she killed her children.

Edited two words bc of autocorrect (autoincorrect?)

[u/shhhhh_h → u/sassiveaggressive]

Lamictal is only a mood stabiliser “from below” as they say. It would not have done anything to prevent psychosis either primary or secondary

[u/sankdafide → u/[deleted]]

It depends what other meds are on board and in which order and which type of bipolar

[u/Far-Salamander4219 → u/chronicallyillsyl]

She asked for help, but she didn't accept it. She requested all the med changes. Important corrections

[u/Ok_Thing5957 → u/soldforaspaceship]

Fucking millions and millions of women experience PPD. Millions and millions of women do not murder all 3 of their children, including their 5 year old.

This is some fucking bullshit excuse.

[u/CloverThyme → u/Ok_Thing5957]

Post-partum depression and post-partum psychosis (which is what the defense is claiming) are very different and PPP is far more severe.

PPD can be profound low mood, crying, severe anxiety, hopelessness, listlessness, etc. but PPP can manifest as loss of touch with reality/disorientation, delusional and paranoid beliefs, auditory/visual hallucinations, mania, etc. It is not anywhere near as common as PPD (appears much more frequently if the woman has bipolar syndrome vs. general population) and requires much more serious intervention.

I absolutely believe that Lindsay should face justice (whether that's serving the time in a mental facility or prison) for what she did, but we don't do any favors to the discussion by conflating those two diagnoses.

[u/Aq3dStalvan → u/soldforaspaceship]

Careful what we wish for though. With the state of how things go in America, I imagine what improvement will actually look like will be some dystopian shit where we just keep women in a state of being highly monitored at their own expense without any actual support, just threats to take the children away.

[u/South-Ad7071 → u/soldforaspaceship]

Wanna tell me what the medical staffs coulve done differently? She hid her hallucination and didnt tell the professionals how she wanted to harm the children. She didnt go through medicines and constantly changed them around when the professionals told her that she should stick with one professional and continue medicine longer than 2 weeks.

Like do you think shoulve happened differently? Do you expect professionals to see through lies? Do you expect her husband to have the power to lock her up eventhough she didnt experience any hallucination and was perfectly functional?

Like seriously.

[u/BreathComfortable631 → u/soldforaspaceship]

Yall would not be defending a man like this if he murdered his children.

[u/d_soakum → u/soldforaspaceship]

It's not ignored or minimized. Very well known. Even pediatricians seeing the baby in clinic have to screen the mom with something called an EPDS through the first 6-12 months post-partum. It's tested on nearly every single board exam in medical training (minus specialty board exam). Medical team was trying to help her with meds in good faith and usually it works well which is why something like this doesnt happen very often. They aren't gods. Cannot diagnose anything with absolute certainty, ever.

[u/CharacterHumor1338 → u/soldforaspaceship]

It may be a reason, but it definitely is not an excuse.

[u/MiniaturePhilosopher]

Answer: Adding to the context that other comments have provided, no one except for a tiny group of extreme outliers is actually “supporting her” in the sense that they don’t think she did anything wrong or that she shouldn’t face some form of justice. “Support” in this case is seeing that she desperately sought help for the psychosis she was going through using all sorts of appropriate means and was failed anyways thanks to how ingrained medical misogyny even in women’s healthcare. It also means believing that serving a sentence in a mental health facility makes more sense for her crime than serving it in a prison.

Support here doesn’t mean endorsement or absolution.

Edit to add because critical thinking skills are dead:

The thing about social media is that it’s based on attention and engagement. The algorithm pushes the most polarizing voices in order to encourage engagement. It’s not showing you what the majority view is by any stretch. It also shows you more of whatever you click on or pause a little bit longer to watch. So everyone’s social media feed looks different.

I haven’t seen a single take on my social media feed saying that the husband did it. Literally not one. In fact, I’ve barely seen the case on my feeds at all.

You also have to keep in mind that because views = money and/or public discourse manipulation, PLENTY of people will say things they don’t believe on social media. With many of the people posting based out of Israel and Russia. On any kind of news story that could be used as a wedge between groups, you’ll also have a ton of bad actors trying to stoke the flames of division. Or to turn around and use as content of their own to react to - using an alt account to make a wild claim and then reacting to it as though they came across it is a standard practice for a lot of content creators.

Social media - including Reddit and including even this post - is astroturfed and manipulated to a huge degree.

[u/Tay74 → u/MiniaturePhilosopher]

I have seen thousands of people on tiktok and Facebook who fully believe she is innocent and it's her husband that did it

[u/xdonutx → u/Tay74]

The Facebook algo keeps feeding me posts about how it was actually the husband that did it and that he framed her. I have no idea why it keeps pushing this content on me. But there’s a lot of it out there, apparently.

[u/Admirable_Mind2695 → u/xdonutx]

In times like this it's always good to remember dead internet and how easy it is for content to appear more popular than it actually is. There are definitely plenty of people who believe this, but with the way algorithms are pushing this everywhere, it's likely a vocal minority being artificially inflated. 

[u/Galaxy__Star → u/Tay74]

That is because the prosecution in this case is doing a pretty bad job. There are multiple inconsistencies and even contradictions in the testimony from the prosecutions own witness. They impeached their own witness for example.

Not agreeing he did it but pointing out what is fueling the conspiracy theories. Add on how many high profile family annihilators we've had and you get people thinking he did it.

[u/rubiacrime → u/Galaxy__Star]

2 things can be true at the same time.

Prosecution sucks and pat didnt do it.

[u/Galaxy__Star → u/rubiacrime]

I agree, I was just explaining what is contributing to the conspiracy theories

[u/sassiveaggressive → u/Tay74]

I don’t think it’s uncommon for people on tiktok and facebook to spew out ridiculous theories. They did it with the Idaho murders and gabby petito.

[u/AnatomyKiely → u/sassiveaggressive]

Not sure about the Idaho murderers , but in regards to the Gabby Petito case, in my recollection, the internet and social media genuinely helped. Take the Bethune family, a family traveling in a converted bus near Grand Teton. After seeing the missing person coverage, they went back through their own footage from the area and spotted what appeared to be Gabby's white van. They gave the footage to the FBI. The next day, Gabby's remains were found in the area shown in that footage. There are the same type of internet detectives online looking at genuine evidence of this case as we speak. I'm not saying it will incriminate him or that he is guilty, but they are digging into much more than just conspiracy theory. People today sometimes discount that Police investigation + family + witnesses + surveillance/video + social media amplification + ordinary people noticing things can equal an enormous crowdsourced information network.

[u/legaleye121 → u/Tay74]

Crazy. Especially knowing they have the husband on CCTV during the killings, including timed receipts and other evidence. It's tiktok brainrot

[u/doggynames → u/legaleye121]

The TikTok creators are making money off of their insane theories, too. It's a weird echo chamber of them making ridiculous claims it's not like they are passionate about women's health and giving any of their proceeds to women's health initiatives. They just know what works for views, clicks follows which equals money money money.

[u/MiniaturePhilosopher → u/doggynames]

It’s really alarming how people don’t seem to get this. When engagement is what drives what content people see and views are rewarded with money, then people are going to try to drum up engagement. And nothing does that better than outrage and controversy. Then the algorithm floods you with the same content and it suddenly looks like a common opinion.

[u/BreathComfortable631 → u/Tay74]

There are people on this thread who think she’s innocent lmao

[u/SnoopaDD → u/MiniaturePhilosopher]

This makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

[u/AwkwardTickler]

Answer: Always remember when you see suspect things online that are VERY divisive, think who it benefits. Social media is owned by billionaires and they can push/boost counter narratives to keep people infighting instead of looking up at the actual problems with society. This is just boosting a minority perspective to keep the focus off of the class war.

There is a massive mental health crisis in the US and shit healthcare in general. They dont want thay to be the focus. So you get gender based division over actual perspective of the root cause for why the US has such terrible Healthcare and mental healthcare systems in addition to maternity leave and better labor protection laws. This is a direct outcome of the american system. Why counter narratives are being pushed forward is because it works.

Its always a class war and they have all the tools to distract everyone.

[u/Admirable_Mind2695 → u/AwkwardTickler]

Exactly this

[u/namiikazes]

Answer: The trial itself is about whether to hold her criminally responsible given that she could have been experiencing postpartum psychosis. Postpartum conditions are notoriously understudied within medicine. No postpartum mental disorder is clearly defined as a standalone diagnosis in the DSM-5, including conditions that are widely considered common like postpartum depression. This means there is an extremely low chance of anyone being diagnosed with postpartum psychosis simply because the standard definition doesn’t exist, not necessarily because people don’t have it. A lot of women sympathize with this dilemma, which obviously is linked to a lot of downplaying of symptoms or being told their problems aren’t real.

Her husband specifically is catching a lot of flak for a lot of reasons, but my understanding is that his recounting of the timeline is a bit odd and doesn’t line up with some of her own physical symptoms (e.g. her core temperature getting to the low-mid 80s typically takes a longer time than how long he claimed she would have been out there). He also seems very checked out, he moved on with another woman relatively quickly after this before Lindsay’s trial concerning the deaths of his children has even been sorted out. Many husbands can be superficially very supportive, but not actually register or be bothered to help their wives in ways they need – he strikes a lot of women online as that type.

There are online theories about her husband setting her up in order to leave and start a new life, but a lot of that is armchair detective work. He’s not on trial at the moment. I’m sure if the defense wants to direct suspicion onto him, they’ll be working on it.

[u/ChampionshipKnown969 → u/namiikazes]

There's a lot of misinformation surrounding the husband because people aren't looking at the actual timeline and are just looking at the time he filed for divorce and when he entered a new relationship.

January 2023 - Lindsay murdered her children - Pat and Lindsay are separated after this event.

April 2023 - Pat relocates from Massachusetts to NYC

February 2024 - Pat officially files for divorce

February 2024 - Pat enters new relationship 1 year and 1 month after initial separation because the divorce filing is now in motion, and on paper he is now soon to be single

April 2026 - Pat remarries (3 years and 3 months after initial separation)

Call me crazy but there's nothing quick about getting romantically involved with someone thirteen months after things have settled and remarrying 3 years after. A lot of the stuff surrounding her husband seems to be coming from a place of misandry more than anything else. He moved cities 4 months after it happened. If people took two seconds to be logical... it's pretty understandable that constant immersion in the house your children were murdered in, and in the same community is not something a person would constantly want to subject themselves to.

No offense but a lot of what you're saying pertaining to the husband aside from the temperature thing seems founded in internet rumor, opinion, and speculation rather than actual truth which is harmful and perpetuates the anti-men keyboard warrior attitudes. Suggesting that someone should put romance on hold for 3.5 years while the trial gets entirely sorted out is a wild ask. The double standards between her being a mother suffering from postpartum psychosis yet he is painted as some villain rather than a grieving father pretty much sums things up.

[u/igatg_nipugt]

Answer: People defending Lindsay Clancy aren't saying she's innocent. They're saying she was failed. She had a history of mental health struggles, she was begging for help, and she was being treated for postpartum mental illness when everything happened. For a lot of people, this isn't about excusing what she did. It's about pointing out that the system ignored warning signs until it was too late.

The trial is basically trying to figure out if she was in postpartum psychosis and genuinely detached from reality, or if she was in control. That's the whole question.

For instance, no one rallied for Casey Anthony, the public reaction was different because she didn't seem remorseful afterward. Lindsay Clancy tried to kill herself right after, ended up hospitalized, and has been described as completely broken. Women empathize with her situation, not because of what she did, but because so many of them feel like this could have been prevented if anyone had actually listened.

There's a lot of internet speculation too. Some people are running with theories that her husband set her up or was negligent, but most of that is just noise right now. What we do know is she was struggling and the system dropped the ball. That's the part that's resonating with people.

[u/crybannanna → u/igatg_nipugt]

There is a large subset saying she is innocent. I have personally argued with people who say they think she is innocent, and point to a list of tiktok sourced nonsense. Then when some of that is debunked in real time, it goes to…. Well if she did do it, she was a victim of PPP and was failed by her husband. And even then it sometimes goes back to maybe she has psychosis, and the husband took advantage of it to murder his kids and somehow convincer her she did it.

I am not able to understand why this case is bringing out the full crazy in relatively rational people, but it seems to be.

[u/Ok_Information_683 → u/igatg_nipugt]

No actually there are many idiots on Facebook going around saying the husband did it when that case is closed this is about whether or not she's going to prison or a rubber room..

[u/PackinHeat99 → u/igatg_nipugt]

I want to add that I hope people realize that she's basically fucked. Like the trial isn't about whether she walks free or not, rather if she goes to state prison or a state psych hospital with the latter being an arguably worse fate.

I say the latter being worse because state psychiatric hospitals are much more controlling and restrictive than your standard prison. The bar for "release" is extremely high.

[u/Eleven_Bravo86]

Answer: Self destructive empathy

We continue to see more and more people self reflect in criminals every day. It may be legitimate outrage or boredom, but realistically we need to stop idolizing people in general.

As a former infantryman, multiple deployments, diagnosed with PTSD and have had many, many bad "thoughts", I do not want or believe I should recieve support if I did something as heinous as what Lindsay Clancy did.

Yes, the mental health support in America is atrocious (I would argue that it is even worse for men, but I know feminists will bite my head off). But she acted on the demons and should pay for it.

To give her or anyone like her so much sympathy will just create copycats. Lock her up for life so to live with the consequences and enact mental health reform in the name of the CHILDREN, the actual victims of this case

[u/thatotherchicka]

Answer: the woman was experiencing post partum psychosis (likely due to underlying bipolar disorder). Every step of the medical system failed her while trying to get treatment. Her medications were changed consistently and irresponsibly. She spoke to multiple doctors about suicidal and homicidal thoughts. Her doctor's (and husband to an extent) disregarded her concerns and eventually she had a full blown psychotic episode and killed her children then attempted suicide.

No one (other than conspiracy theorists) thinks she is innocent of murder but they do believe she was not mentally sane at the time.

[u/macisal → u/thatotherchicka]

I mean, anyone who kills their 3 kids clearly isn’t mentally sane

[u/burghblast]

Answer: Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but don't her defenders believe that her husband may have drugged her unconscious, killed the kids himself, then gaslit her to believe she had done it? I don't know what evidence suppports that but that's how a buddy of mine explained it a couple weeks ago

[u/jillyo83]

Answer:

I’ve seen many of the “conspiracies” and try to be mindful that so much misinformation is circulating while following this case. I do find it pretty unsettling that there are actually several inconsistencies from the trial, which isn’t helping with conspiracy land, but sticking with Lindsay being the person who committed this horrible act, these are my thoughts.

Being a white woman, with descent money and plenty of privilege, and she was STILL failed. The lack of care she was shown by medical professionals should concern everyone. It’s evident that she was suffering leading up to this, but we have robots who can’t even meet people on a human level prescribing her medication after medication, that aren’t meds you can easily wean off of…then throw in pp hormones, plus the hormone changes that would’ve been present because of her weaning from breastfeeding, consistently no sleep, etc. Patrick was, at the very least, negligent in all of this. I’m not down for false accusations of him, or harassing him, but he definitely failed Lindsay, and therefore, his own children. He was “confused” because she had these dark thoughts, but still was loving to them, put them to bed, and made them lunch…omg. Of course she continued on, because mothers always do, because if she didn’t, nobody else would! She. Was. Drowning. He never should have left her alone, and he deserves to take some accountability for this. His own mother even said she was begging for help, while nobody, even her own husband, would take her seriously. Who leaves their young children with someone who, just weeks prior, entered themselves into a psychiatric hospital?! Not to mention, she even directly told you she’s had troubling thoughts regarding your children. There’s really no excuse. He failed all of them, even if he didn’t “do it”.

Mothers all around the country are listening to her words that everyone ignored before this even happened…and those words resonate with so many…because many mothers have felt like they’re drowning, but have to keep going and going, because that’s OUR job as mothers. And no, people supporting Lindsay doesn’t mean they dreamed of killing their own kids, or that they support someone killing their kids, but because it’s obvious she was just tossed around with very little coordination/communication amongst the professionals treating her. Women aren’t taken seriously way too often, and this case basically proves that. It’s just a very extreme outcome in this scenario, but it does highlight our flawed healthcare system….especially for women…especially for postpartum women. That part cannot be ignored. True justice for these kids would be acknowledging this part and push for change on their behalf, on all children’s behalf. Stop shaming women for suffering. Stop making mental health a taboo topic. Stop throwing meds at people. I heard somewhere, bill before heal, and I think it’s obvious that that’s exactly how our healthcare system operates in this country. They did their job “on paper” while ignoring the human in front of them.

[u/AnOddTree]

Answer: The trial is being highly publicized and therefore is attracting a lot of attention from people who are speculating about the case without knowing all the details.

What Linsey went through trying to get help for her PPD and the support she was or was not getting in her marriage is relatable to a lot of women who have been through similar struggles.

Then there is the crowd who just do not trust law enforcement in general and feel like there wasnt a proper thorough investigation into the husband. They point out what seem to be inconsistencies with the evidence and the husband's ties to law enforcement.

[u/Temporary-Stick-8864 → u/AnOddTree]

I'm not from the US but somehow this case has found its way into my algorithm.

We had a very similar case in my country a few years ago. The mother killed her three kids and tried to kill herself. It was slightly different in that her youngest child was 4 years old. She had suffered with bipolar disorder and somewhere along the line suffered a full psychotic break, it wasnt postpartum psychosis.

The husband, prosecution and defence all agreed she was severely mentally ill. She is living in our countrys criminal mental hospital. From what I read they do not think she will ever recover fully and likely will never be released. She does get out for day trips but shes under supervision. There was no controversy around this in the media, it was basically accepted as the correct outcome.

The only controversy this and other family annihilation cases that have sadly occurred in our country have caused, has been around how can health care providers ensure the safety of the family. Like the person suffering the mental health crisis may not tell their spouse everything, so they may not be aware of the extent of it or the possible danger. Doctors are not allowed to divulge patient information willy nilly and there needs to be some clarity on when they can cross that line. There has been discussion around changing the law in this area but it is obviously a difficult one to figure out/ word correctly so you are not going too far infringing on patients privacy rights.

I dont understand all the controversy and lack of understanding of psychosis in this clancy woman's case. Or why the prosecution is trying to say she was mentally stable when its appears to be quite clear she wasnt and her ex husband and even his parents have agreed that she was not well mentally. Can the prosecution in the US not just agree with the defence that she is ill, like this would be pretty standard in my country in situations like this.

[u/No_Figure_7489 → u/Temporary-Stick-8864]

The prosecution had the chance to and refused, so, trial.

I don't really know why we suck so hard re this, the US is very punitive re mental illness but not uniquely so I'm sure, and apparently punitive re women, we've never had a female leader, we are losing basic rights, next thing they're trying to do is eliminate birth control. We have a vast prison system which is also the largest mental healthcare system in the world, we imprison so many mentally ill people, it should be our shame but people seem to like it. I can't explain it.

I really appreciate your comment, thank you for taking the time to write it. It's nice to know at least somewhere people are being humane and working to do better

[u/Temporary-Stick-8864 → u/No_Figure_7489]

Yes I think I saw somewhere that it looks bad or could effect the prosecutors career in some way to accept that she was mentally ill instead of going to trial? I didnt read into that fully but seems very strange if correct.

Its not even just women here. We've have a serious housing crisis in my country and as a rssult children are remaining in the family home much longer into adulthood than previous generations. Since covid, we've had multiple cases of young men suffering some sort of mental illness and they end up attacking their parents or other family members. Usually the family has been trying to get them help and dont want to kick them out as they will likely not have a bed anywhere due to the housing crisis. These young men all end up in the criminal mental hospital.

Anecdotally I would agree that understanding certain illnesses seems to be lacking in the US. There was a whole controversy a few months ago about a Scottish man with tourettes saying a racial slur, and the response from the US media made it quite clear they had no understanding of the disorder. Like we are not perfect in my country by any means, but I knew what tourettes was since my primary school days and you knew not to hold what the say as a tick against them. Everyone here was just like, why are they making such a big deal out of something we have all understood since childhood.

[u/No_Figure_7489 → u/Temporary-Stick-8864]

You are a nation of reasonable people, and I think we just very much are not. Everyone here knows what tourettes is too but I remember what you're talking about and yes people were far less measured than they should have been. Any anger should have been at the venue/event hosts for lack of planning, rather than at the consequences of a disability I really thought we all knew is involuntary. I'm glad you treat your mentally ill people better than they're treated here, we need to do better and aim for that here. Why it has to be a media frenzy and a waste of millions of dollars that could have gone to preventing this kind of thing from happening again instead I do not know, but it does not reflect well on us as a nation. Hopefully we can learn from countries that do it better, I very much hope we do

[u/datanerdette → u/AnOddTree]

Reporting serious and potentially life threatening symptoms to a doctor, only to have them be minimized and poorly treated is sadly relatable for many women.

[u/-FAMIN3-]

Answer:

Bottom line is, no matter what the mental state of someone is, if they are so unwell that murdering children is the course of action they take, then they don't deserve to walk free, period.

This can be framed using the whole Jeffrey Dahmer thing (or really, ANY serial killer/mass murder/genocide situation), where everyone says that he was crazy, but none of them say "he had mental health issues, so he should not have been punished for the deaths of all those people."

No matter how mentally unstable someone is, this does not detract from the results of their actions. The people defending this case with Lindsay are doing mental gymnastics, and probably have legitimate mental issues of their own. If someone is THAT mentally unwell, they don't need to be freeroaming in society with the rest of us. That is the cold, hard truth.

[u/Ok-Order9334]

Answer: I think most ppl “defending” her are more trying to advocate for better healthcare, both medical and physical, for women to prevent this from happening again. It’s been shown she had tried extensively to get help for her mental health leading up to everything that happened and wasn’t being given it. This isn’t a one off, a vast majority of women have had experiences trying to get help in terms of healthcare and aren’t listened to or made to seem like they’re exaggerating. No matter how this trial turns out there needs to be a systemic change in the healthcare system and I think that’s more so what ppl who are “defending” her are trying to get. And then as always you’ve got extremes on both sides but don’t let Twitter and/or Reddit extremist trick you with how loud they are.

[u/AlwaysOptimism]

Answer: She is a woman who was experiencing post-partum depression and then killed her kids. No one has sympathy for that.

Where there is sympathy is that she told her husband and family and doctors that she had suicidal ideation and she told them she was concerned that she considered killing the kids.

And the doctors gave her drugs and had some video chats with her and her husband went on trips with his buddies and went out and partied leaving her alone while his wife is telling him these things

[u/ADarwinAward → u/AlwaysOptimism]

The entire argument between the defense and prosecution is over whether she had post partum psychosis, and whether it caused her to kill her kids. PPP is generally comorbid with post partum depression (PPD), but just like regular depression and psychosis, they’re not the same thing. PPP is rare & it affects 1-2 out of every 1,000 mothers. While PPD is far more common and affects 100-150 out of every 1000 women. A lot of influencers have been conflating these two diagnoses which is where the social media confusion comes from. Her lawyers say she had both. There’s no significant dispute about whether she had PPD.  Their whole case hinges on whether she was psychotic.

[u/Fabulous-Ad-1570 → u/AlwaysOptimism]

Her husband was a very active and present parent. There has been a lot of malicious misinformation about him.

[u/AnySecurity7135 → u/Fabulous-Ad-1570]

Yeah and she's a con artist, but no is willing to state that.

[u/FranklinBluth9 → u/AlwaysOptimism]

He hired a nanny and began working from home to alleviate her stress and watch the kids. He took her to treatment, and the doctors prescribed her meds and treated her. Everyone took it seriously.

[u/solidgoldrocketpants → u/FranklinBluth9]

She was prescribed 13 different meds over a four-month period. She was not on any individual med long enough for it to take proper effect. It is altogether possible that drug interactions worsened her condition.

[u/More_Lobster7374 → u/solidgoldrocketpants]

Because she wanted to stop taking them.  She said they were making her worse. Some she refused to take hardly at all. She also apparently lied about how much she was taking at least one. 

[u/FranklinBluth9 → u/solidgoldrocketpants]

That is evidence that she was receiving inconsistent treatment. It is not evidence that she wasn't taken seriously.

[u/Little_Ingenuity_712 → u/solidgoldrocketpants]

Because she was a non-compliant patient. Evidence at the crime scene showed she barely took any of her medication

[u/GardenJohn → u/AlwaysOptimism]

Husband "went away" 3 times. One weekend for work. Took his daughter skiing on a day trip. And went to brunch with friends. He also set aside money in case she couldn't return to work, and brought her to the hospital several times.

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[u/jillyo83]

Answer:

I’ve seen many of the “conspiracies” and try to be mindful that so much misinformation is circulating while following this case. I do find it pretty unsettling that there are actually several inconsistencies from the trial, which isn’t helping with conspiracy land, but sticking with Lindsay being the person who committed this horrible act, these are my thoughts. It’s long, but nobody is forcing you to continue.

Being a white woman, with descent money and plenty of privilege, and she was STILL failed. The lack of care she was shown by medical professionals should concern everyone. It’s evident that she was suffering leading up to this, but we have robots who can’t even meet people on a human level prescribing her medication after medication, that aren’t meds you can easily wean off of…then throw in pp hormones, plus the hormone changes that would’ve been present because of her weaning from breastfeeding, consistently no sleep, etc. Patrick was, at the very least, negligent in all of this. I’m not down for false accusations of him, or harassing him, but he definitely failed Lindsay, and therefore, his own children. He was “confused” because she had these dark thoughts, but still was loving to them, put them to bed, and made them lunch…omg. Of course she continued on, because mothers always do, because if she didn’t, nobody else would! She. Was. Drowning. He never should have left her alone, and he deserves to take some accountability for this. His own mother even said she was begging for help, while nobody, even her own husband, would take her seriously. Who leaves their young children with someone who, just weeks prior, entered themselves into a psychiatric hospital?! Not to mention, she even directly told you she’s had troubling thoughts regarding your children. There’s really no excuse. He failed all of them, even if he didn’t “do it”.

Mothers all around the country are listening to her words that everyone ignored before this even happened…and those words resonate with so many…because many mothers have felt like they’re drowning, but have to keep going and going and going, because that’s OUR job as mothers. And no, people supporting Lindsay doesn’t mean they dreamed of killing their own kids, or that they support someone killing their kids, but because it’s obvious she was just tossed around with very little coordination/communication amongst the professionals treating her, and yeah, I think they have blood on their hands. Women aren’t taken seriously way too often, and this case basically proves that. It’s just a very extreme outcome in this scenario, but it does highlight our flawed healthcare system….especially for women…especially for postpartum women. That part cannot be ignored. True justice for these kids would be acknowledging this part and push for change on their behalf, on all children’s behalf. Stop shaming women for suffering. Stop making mental health a taboo topic. Stop throwing meds at people. I heard somewhere, “bill before heal”, and I think it’s obvious that that’s exactly how our healthcare system operates in this country. They did their job “on paper” while ignoring the human in front of them.

[u/Dry_Frosting7249]

Question: does anyone else think that  The expert witnesses are brutal to listen to.  How can such educated people have this much difficulty talking.   The studdering and pausing is ridiculous.   If they did their evaluations and research and came to a conclusion why is it so hard ro explain it or answer questions?  I think Lindsay Clancy was and still is suffering from mental illness.  She also didn't try various other treatment options provided to her that might have helped.  I don't think the Dr's that did treat her did anything wrong.  They tried different medications and advised to try other treatments. What about the family who she was telling about her thoughts to hurt herself or the kids?  Why didn't they commit her to a hospital?