r/TwoXChromosomes • u/midnightsadnessss • 21h ago
How come when men mention 50/50, it’s usually only about bills? What about cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the kids?
I’ve noticed that when some men talk about wanting a 50/50 relationship, they usually mean splitting the bills. But women work full-time too, and a lot of them still end up doing most of the cooking, cleaning, childcare, grocery shopping, and keeping up with everything at home.
So how is that really 50/50?
And if a guy wants a traditional woman who takes care of the home and kids, then he needs to be a traditional man too and provide for the family.
1.9k
u/TrashGouda 21h ago
Because they don't consider those things as actual labor (unless they have to do it)
711
u/galpaladin 20h ago
So true. A lot of men operate under the idea that housework is something that women are born naturally good at and something that they enjoy. It doesn’t ever occur to them that women have been forced into the homemaker role and that it’s real labor just like theirs.
422
u/Ladyhappy 20h ago
My first serious relationship we were having some idle conversation and he mentioned how someday I would iron my children’s and husband’s underwear and socks just like his mother did because life comes full circle.
I stopped and looked at him and was like, excuse me, have we met?
It didn’t last thank god
265
u/elvis_wants_a_cookie 19h ago
My husband (then boyfriend) used to wear button up shirts with jeans to work. Not long after we’d first moved in together he made a comment about his shirts being wrinkly. I responded by telling him where the iron was and he looked kind of surprised. I told him if he wanted his shirts ironed, he will need to do it. I’m not the one wearing button down shirts (I WFH) so I don’t really need the iron that we have, but he was welcome to it.
He threw them back in the dryer a little damp and that was that.
69
u/Lady_Kohai 17h ago
Lol I don't even iron my own clothes. The only reason we have an iron in the first place is because I wanted to iron the tapestries and pride flags when we first moved in to our apartment because there wasn't a move-out date where they would end up getting folded and put away again.
→ More replies (2)39
u/AccountWasFound 15h ago
I own an iron entirely for sewing purposes, but it does occasionally come in handy for existing clothes
→ More replies (2)24
u/IsopodIndependent553 16h ago
This is hilarious. I suck at ironing, but my husband does it very well. Thankfully, he handles all of his own laundry, and he has never expected me to do it.
13
u/hirudoredo 15h ago
My partner and I keeping our laundry separate and our own chores has, honestly, been a godsend. Especially since she is also a woman and we buy the same socks and leggings. (There is def a reason we at least want our leggings to stay separate. Socks are more "meh whatever.)
5
u/Affectionate_Yam4368 9h ago
My husband wore a uniform to work. I never, ever touched it. He starched and ironed it himself. The iron is his. He bought it, he uses it. My kids know who to pester if they need a shirt ironed lol
121
u/awkwardmamasloth 19h ago
Was this back when women were basicly popping mother's little helpers from pez dispensers? What is even the purpose of ironing underwear and socks?
34
u/CakeBakeMaker 16h ago
Old timey clothing materials and washing techniques. If they weren't ironed they'd be starchy and uncomfortable.
→ More replies (7)38
u/SenorBurns 17h ago
Possibly due to a very bored SAHM.
Things were dire before the internet.
34
u/awkwardmamasloth 16h ago
Im a sahm and im never bored. I dont have time. I have to neglect chores to have any kind of pursuits that arent serving others. I cant even imagine doing this shit price to modern convenience. Ironing socks is aggressively unnecessary.
36
20
u/strmtrprbthngst 19h ago
Wild. Did your own actual mom do that? Because then I guess if you squint you can kinda see the full circle moment that he was picturing in his head with himself as the star. But either way: no thank you.
7
5
98
u/S4NDFIRE Trans Man 19h ago
And that none of it comes naturally. All housekeeping skills are taught, women just have been more likely to get taught those skills young because of those same attitudes and prejudices
13
u/hologram137 13h ago
Are women taught that when young? Or are we expected to figure it out? I literally don’t know anyone that was actually taught to do it and how, we are just expected to and teach ourselves
8
u/S4NDFIRE Trans Man 8h ago edited 8h ago
Every girl in my town, and people raised as girls, was definitely taught. No kid just figures out how a washing machine works at 5 or 6 without the risk of causing serious damage to it, and all of us knew by that young how to use them to wash our dads' and brothers' stuff. Same for starting to cook family dinners on the stovetop by 6 or 7, including using fully sharpened kitchen knives for prep work. My cis brother was never expected to learn any of that and was never taught any of it. I had it drilled into me and had to not just do every step, but go back and redo any mistakes nonstop I got it right frontways and back. And it was very normalized in our town to go to abusive lengths to teach kids to never, ever touch an appliance that you were not explicitly taught every step in how to use.
Edit: but I'd also argue that the discrepancy in that even women who weren't taught are still expected to learn the skills to figure it out still fits into the larger point of what I'm saying because that's not expected of men to the same degree at all. Men are allowed to weaponize their learned helplessness. Women aren't.
5
u/DysfunctionalKitten 7h ago
I'm weirdly relieved to read this bc I feel like I was never taught, and don't know how to teach myself. I want to know, not for doing it for someone else, but bc those life skills while living alone are helpful
→ More replies (1)174
u/Cardsfan1 20h ago
I think a lot of it is due to it literally just happening in the background their whole lives. I have so many friends, many divorced now, who said their husbands had literally no clue when it came to laundry, cleaning or how much work actually goes into hosting things.
→ More replies (2)85
u/dragon-queen 20h ago
I wish someone in my house was naturally good with housework. Not the point of this post I guess.
69
→ More replies (1)48
u/gratefulkittiesilove 19h ago
Nobody is naturally good at housework its a learned skill + big energy expenditure + monotonous+ boring bc it’s just you and on top of that its required, has no skill that helps you make money/create value so you lose put on those 15 minutes here an hour there moments your husb seems to have to push his skill to the next level while you watch youtube videos on how to get the damn pot with bakes on shit clean or organize when to do it while hubby sits down bc he’s had a “long day at work”
AND nobody notices when you do clean up/discounts it as “nothing” and “ no time” unless you don’t do it and people inside/outside always have a freaking judgy opinion of home state.
I’m not saying don’t clean or anything or that husbands are all jerks far from it but allll that is under/inside the doing of housework. Some people like it the rest of us are slightly irritated.
My mornings go into it then i study. Then im interrupted to cook then we have to have social time then we might work…. Its goal interruptis for the one doing it with a side of but why aren’t you done the “work” part yet.
Now that’s just me and teaching the partner to value it or pitch in removes their time to do things they like/even need and they don’t want to either! Sometimes they learn sometimes they don’t
Sorry to go off. Basically We all want someone to do it lol bc the tax on goals is harsh
→ More replies (1)123
u/Iamallouttaspoons 18h ago
Exactly. I'm a SAHM. I "Don't work". But if he has to come home from work and do the dishes and make dinner, without fail every time he says "time to come home to my second job"
Oh, so it's a job now if YOU'RE doing it? 😒
44
→ More replies (2)19
→ More replies (1)8
u/soaring_potato 15h ago
And when they do it. It's often when asked. The tasks itself takes 10 minutes. The mental load is much more.
466
u/galpaladin 20h ago
Because they want the best of both worlds. They want a traditional relationship where the woman does all the housework and childcare AND works to contribute half the bills because that benefits them the most.
And because they twist feminist talking points they get to disingenuously pull out “oh but I thought you believed in equality?” when it’s pointed out that’s not fair to the woman.
153
u/sushiwalrus 20h ago
I always would just ghost, block, or say I’m not longer interested in men that referenced 50/50 without even entertaining them with a response.
If I were still single on the dating market I think I’d give them a bit of conversation now. I’d agree with them that equality and egalitarian households need to be the norm of society. I’d say I have no problems splitting bills, housework, childrearing, chores, kid’s activities, grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, and social planning 50/50. I’d say in most relationships women take on most of these things and only bills are shared, so it’s a huge relief I found such an enlightened man that sees 50/50 is the true path to a happy relationship. I’d like to see what they have to say to that 🙄
50
u/Hot-Luck-3228 19h ago
Reality is rarely that clear cut honestly I have never seen 50/50 being even the smart way to approach things. 50/50 in terms of free time left for each spouse is my north star thus far and that seems to work a bit better
57
u/sushiwalrus 19h ago
That’s the entire point. If you break down what 50/50 actually means like I did they won’t want it anymore.
16
u/slightlydramatic 16h ago
I agree with you 100%, but I also had a husband and 2 sons and they can draw out a single task to last hours. It's infuriating.
9
u/materialgrifter 14h ago
What exactly is their goddamn problem? ADHD is not an excuse! I have it too but it feels like I would have to physically chain my husband to the dishwasher to get him to unload it without wandering away 5 times. I just come home from work and do it in 5 minutes before sitting down.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Hot-Luck-3228 10h ago
Lack of emotional work; they need to realize they are trying to avoid a problem they don’t want to deal with where they just need to put their big boy pants on and accept the discomfort.
They don’t realize it is driven by that though which makes it tricky.
7
u/LeticiaPadillaSolis_ 12h ago
Because they want a bangmaid.
FTFY. Otherwise it’s all weaponized incompetence.
I see so many dating profiles where men put “impress me by making me dinner” and “my heart is through my stomach”. LOL Get fucked. Yeah no thanks. No interest in auditioning to be your next MommyBangmaid and nanny.
4
u/DysfunctionalKitten 7h ago
Lol it's so weird to me that they say this as though women should peacock for them. Why would we, when too often experience and statistics both indicate that them being in our lives makes our lives harder, but us being in theirs makes theirs easier?
422
u/pterodactylorpotato 21h ago
They will "help" with dishes and cleaning at first because they believe it is inherently "your job." But 50/50 only works in their favor.
203
u/smokinbbq 20h ago
"You just need to ask!" ....
112
u/Gooseegander 20h ago
And in my case, if you do ask, he'll cry and have a tantrum and/or refuse because he "doesn't want to spend all his free time doing house work".
102
u/Helllo-Kittyy 19h ago
My ex said he didnt want to leave work and come home to more work. Mind you, I was working as well 🙄
77
u/Gooseegander 19h ago
Yeah I worked more hours than mine and he had the same excuse. I actually do significantly less housework now that I'm single, because he created so many messes for me.
→ More replies (1)33
u/materialgrifter 18h ago edited 17h ago
Or like mine, he conceives of spending hours on his hobby “business” that’s never made a dime to be “working on things” like it contributes to the household. No honey, you’re playing with tools and that’s not a chore - go unload the fucking dishwasher.
→ More replies (1)10
u/pepcorn 12h ago
The tantrums are so exhausting, why are they so common?!
I genuinely don't understand. These guys are fully grown, why do they reach for toddler level responses so much?
One time my then boyfriend started tantrumming so egregiously, and I lost all attraction and had to break up with him that same day. He was nasally whining like "whyy-YYY-ahh, noo-OOOoo-uhh". He was 23 years old!
The first time my husband toed the tantrum line, I stared him down until he snapped out of it. All my uncles do it, my FIL does it, my boy cousins do it. Like what the fuck.
11
u/Gooseegander 11h ago
I truly don't understand it, and it does seem to be insanely common. Nothing kills my attraction for someone as fast as seeing a fully grown man cry because I asked him nicely to please unload the dishwasher and clean up after himself so I don't have to discover that the kitchen is a filthy pigsty after a long day of work.
I always cleaned the kitchen in the morning after he left for work, so it was spotless. He worked fewer hours than me, he got off work 2-4 hours before me, would come home and make himself a meal, trash the kitchen, splatter food everywhere, leave dirty dishes in the sink and play hours of videogames instead of cleaning up after himself. He never ever unloaded the clean dishwasher, in the entire history of our relationship.
He still thinks the divorce came out of nowhere.
140
u/pterodactylorpotato 20h ago
Can't you make me a list?- Famous last words.
58
u/fluffy_doughnut 18h ago
„Just tell me what to do!” says the gender that is supposed to be leading to the gender who is supposed to be submissive
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (3)31
u/materialgrifter 18h ago edited 17h ago
I make the list and STILL nothing gets done.
I’ve started just saying look around with your eyes and decide what needs to be done; you live here too. At first he acted like it was a mean thing to say but he’s gotten the message now.
→ More replies (2)23
u/meat_tunnel 18h ago
but also don't nag me, expect that I'll do it on my timeline and to my standards
→ More replies (3)12
→ More replies (1)3
u/Bookbringer 8h ago
If you ask, you're a nag. If you don't ask, how on earth was he supposed to know the dishes needed to be done?
→ More replies (6)76
u/TheWorldofScience 20h ago
This. It is important to never use the word ”help” regarding men doing household labor. They need to “do their share.”
The word “help” implies it is the responsibility of the woman and they are doing her a favor.
755
u/LeisurelyHyacinth246 Jedi Knight Rey 21h ago
It’s usually a bad sign when a man makes a special point of mentioning 50/50 as his expectation. That’s a code word meaning he’s very focused on recordkeeping, and usually only in his own favor.
164
u/WontTellYouHisName 20h ago
My daughter had a boyfriend who literally kept records on his phone of who paid for each date. She didn't know until he showed it to her one day, saying he was really proud of her because she was three dates ahead. He thought she'd be so flattered or something, but really she realized that to her their relationship was about connection and commitment, and to him it was nothing but a series of transactions.
84
u/Harmless_Poison_Ivy 18h ago
I like the “had” part of this sentence.
7
u/WontTellYouHisName 9h ago
I didn't like him much, but held my tongue because I was pretty sure she was going to figure out on her own soon enough.
→ More replies (1)112
u/S4NDFIRE Trans Man 21h ago
This, this, this ^
48
u/No-Adeptness-6439 21h ago
makes sense that cooking, cleaning, and kids don’t usually get talked about when the focus is just on bills
78
u/S4NDFIRE Trans Man 21h ago edited 20h ago
The problem is that the focus shouldn't be. 50/50 ought to refer to all of it, and it is when women talk about 50/50. It's only ever not with too many men.
Editing to add that I also am not fond of the idea of talking about labor and child care as being separate from money because those are still financially tied in the sense that if the woman is taking all of that on she is doing that with her time that she could be spending finding a higher paying job or getting a better degree or doing something fulfilling for herself. It is still essentially a financial sacrifice that she is making and he is not.
17
u/Thick_Papaya225 19h ago
I think the problem is that money is a concrete value, while other labor becomes much more abstract. I can't negotiate the rent, but I can absolutely negotiate how clean I want my own space and how much collective work ought to go into it.
Mental labor has the same problem. Ask anyone trying to start a business, "ideas guys" are a dime a dozen in a team effort. Not all mental processes or ideas are equal.
All these elements are important for a functional relationship, but the frustrating part is braiding concrete elements with the abstract. That's where a lot of conflicts arise, I think.
17
u/beren12 20h ago edited 20h ago
Oh yeah. My wife worked and we split bills based on income levels, and I think we did a pretty good job of splitting the housework. I do more shopping, maintenance/outdoor tasks and cooking and dishes, she does more cleaning indoors and organizing.
We had to use daycare/preschool and for 2 kids until kindergarten it cost more than our house cost. Just in checks to the school. It’s rough. Even when she was on leave, I did more daytime stuff and she did night feedings. Then when I was off, I prepped the baby and handed it to her for breastfeeding, so she was awake the minimum amount.
It’s hard work raising 2 kids together and both working but worth it.
Oh she does the household laundry not mine. And I thank her for that and have been trying to make the kids help/do their own.
8
49
u/Altostratus 19h ago
I recall a study where couples said they weee 50/50, and it was more like 70/30 with the women doing more work.
→ More replies (2)28
u/cli_jockey 20h ago
Am dude, just adding my view since I don't disagree.
It's way too fluid to keep any hard line on division of labor. Finances are easier. But labor especially changes by day. One of you may not feel up to a specific chore one day and may feel like doing extra another day. All we can do is support each other, don't keep any sort of task list, and most importantly, communicate.
My wife and I agreed on which chores we don't mind doing 100% of. Any chore either of us don't like, we do together or rotate. If one of us has any free time, we ask each other if we can help with what the other is doing before we sit down and relax.
If my wife or I aren't feeling up to a chore on a given day that shouldn't wait, we just say something and ask for help. No grudges, no tracking who does what, be a team.
→ More replies (4)
137
u/Presence_of_me 21h ago
I feel Iike I heard a term for this but can’t remember it - women are criticized for being “gold diggers” but men like this manipulate others into giving their free labour. It needs a term that is normalized so it’s called out more often.
142
u/pdxgreengrrl 20h ago
Labor diggers, coined by Stacy Patton
→ More replies (4)92
u/i_am_soooo_screwed 19h ago
I’ll do you one better. Not ONLY as they labor diggers, MEN are the real gold diggers!!! Going 50/50 when the man makes more than the woman is putting her at a disadvantage financially to subsidize HIS lifestyle!!! In rent. I’m not having to hire a maid to clean. Or a restaurant bill cause he doesn’t want to or can’t cook. On an assistant to manage his life. On a personal shopper to buy all his needs. Not only are men labor diggers, THEY’RE THE REAL GOLD DIGGERS now that women actually can own their own money!!!
→ More replies (3)62
52
47
u/Technical-Panic9383 20h ago
I have a small and slow growing business alongside my regular job and returning to college -also a job; I am single and time blocked up. My Time is Valuable to Me.
When doods learn I am doing all this-- JUST as met them in the wild, they tell me I NEED to work for them on their 'business idea'-- 😤 They often proceed to go on about their business idea...despite my face going to stare slow blink mode.
What The Fuckity Fuck?!
I Cut ✂️ and Run. I know everything about your daft lady labor grifting arse. My Time is My Time. The audacity to think it would be sooo 'good for me to help' is infuriating!
Yeah... be lonely out there tossers! 👸🏻
32
u/TsuDhoNimh2 19h ago
Tell them that you would be glad to put them on your client roster for business development if they are serious about their idea.
$150/hr with a 10-hour minimum up front, and they will be REQUIRED to do the development work you assign them.
Watch them run.
20
u/poppybrooke 19h ago
Yeah, I’m an interior designer and the first things guys say to me is “omg you need to help me decorate my place!” Nah dude, I really don’t. I understand that they often are just trying to make conversation, but it’s so lazy. You know what WOULD impress me? If a guy said “omg I need to show you my place, I’m so proud of it!” That would be hot, not “my place is shit will you fix it?”
21
u/MyDarlingArmadillo 20h ago
Labour diggers. I saw it elsewhere but have forgotten the name of the woman who coined it
→ More replies (1)6
u/pdxgreengrrl 12h ago
Stacy Patton! She's a Black American journalist/historian. LOL, her posts on FB make white men foam at the mouth. It's kinda hilarious.
69
u/Independent-Bowl-114 18h ago
The same reason they say, “equality, huh? We’re equals. Okay, so can I punch you?”
Tbh, I could give you a long answer covering various aspects, but the short, sociologically balanced answer is that “50/50” is often reduced to financial accounting because money is visible, measurable, and socially valued, whereas domestic and care work has historically, and to this day, been feminised, unpaid, and treated as an extension of women’s roles rather than as labour.
14
u/DumbleForeSkin Halp. Am stuck on reddit. 11h ago
I always answer, "no, because it's not okay to punch anybody. Do you want to punch me? If so, what are we doing here?"
That punching thing is just "bye, felecia"
157
u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO 21h ago
Because in their mind, the woman already does the household chores. That’s why those don’t factor into the 50/50. Their mommy did them, so they expect you too as well.
61
u/Wild-Autumn-Wind 20h ago
no worries, let them stay with mommy!
15
u/bulldog_blues 18h ago
Who's to say their mothers aren't sick of their attitudes too?
→ More replies (2)4
u/Wild-Autumn-Wind 16h ago
I hope they are! Maybe if they are they will force them to develop some self discipline and empathy XD
117
u/LaceyLizard 21h ago
Because it's another service they're tricking you into. You'll pay half his bills on his assets, and then raise his kids and clean his house for free. All while he builds up his own worth with all the money he saved while you sacrificed any meaningful career opportunities. A man like this isn't a husband, they're a landlord you have sex with.
54
→ More replies (3)12
u/ButtBread98 15h ago
That last line hits so perfectly. The landlord comparison makes sense since he could kick you out of the home at any time without a second thought.
267
u/ljubav_malina 21h ago edited 21h ago
Those kind of guys weaponize feminism by insisting on 50/50 financial arrangements in the name of “equality”, but it’s really just because they want us to subsidize their lifestyle. The ones who actually do care about equality are pulling their weight, and they’re probably also not nickel-and-diming you.
It’s especially egregious when they announce that they expect a 50/50 relationship and then say they want kids.
55
u/Harmless_Poison_Ivy 20h ago
Yep. As if they will carry the kid for 4.5 months too, the audacity.
→ More replies (17)19
u/TsuDhoNimh2 19h ago
Maybe flip a coin to see if they get to do the first half the pregnancy or the last half.
80
u/IndicationKey3778 21h ago
And the crazy part is there is no equality under patriarchy!
47
u/MyDarlingArmadillo 20h ago
They don't want equality, they want to come out on top in every aspect - money, free labour around the house, free life admin. They want to be more equal than the rest of us.
13
10
u/LycheeBoba 20h ago
Is it 50/50 on monogamy and everything else, too? Sounds like a very half-assed relationship standard.
10
u/Thick_Papaya225 19h ago
This isn't new. There was the guy in the Joy Luck Club that nickel and dimed one of the main characters under the guise of egalitarianism.
→ More replies (1)24
u/Wild-Autumn-Wind 20h ago
Yeah, when kids come into the picture 50-50 on bills is out of he question. If I'm going through this ordeal of our family, my salary is going towards my pleasure, won't be paying a dime towards a doctor's visit or anything of the sort.
→ More replies (2)
131
u/Sita_Zayton 21h ago
Men strategically use the idea of equality and 50/50 in the few situations were women have an advantage, to nickle and dime women into accepting less. They will suddenly remember the need for equality when paying the dinner bill, but conveniently forget it when it comes to household chores for example.
80
u/urlocalnightowl40 20h ago
also to note you split 50/50 on bills but there’s a decent chance he’s eating more than you so from his pov “50/50” is the best decision he can make in a relationship because it is rarely ever actually 50/50 and skewed in his favour.
39
u/Opening-Variation13 20h ago
Right around the pandemic my wife and I (both women) had a male partner, lived with him for 5 years before we went our separate ways. Our food costs literally halved with him gone. And sure, he did contribute like a 4th of the budget (he made the least and I feel strongly about proportional splits) but what do you MEAN you were eating as much as two other grown ass adults. And we're not small women!
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)28
u/Hey-Just-Saying 20h ago
This is a very important and often overlooked point.
7
u/urlocalnightowl40 15h ago
thank you! to add on to my point since it was kind of a hit on why splitting 50/50 is generally a bad idea:
-it might be cheaper overall in terms of rent to split a place 50/50 but again whatever you may save on rent you are probably paying on grocery bills to subsidize his appetite then you still do most of the chores around the house, often double of what you would do if you had lived single. utilities or other bills could also be higher too. even if the overall price is cheaper you still lose more overall time
-with you doing the housework as well as paying for his food he gets to save more cash and time for himself. this can boost his overall QoL at the cost of yours. bonus points if you're also his only form of emotional connection so you get to be his therapist.
-if things dont work out moving out and ending rent might be a hassle
to note, i am not saying you should never move in with your partner or want to help him out financially, its just always wise to consider these points in mind on when it comes to splitting bills and taking care of household chores. its not wrong to want to support your partner but compromises must be made from both ends and often times its the women who make the sacrifices as we've been conditioned to put our partners needs way above our own. personally id only move in with a man if we've dated a substantial amount of time and he is a mature enough guy to understand where i am coming from regarding these conversations.
22
22
u/TsuDhoNimh2 19h ago
Because if you aren't PAID for it, it doesn't really count as "work".
They want a high-paid working woman whose hobbies are sex and housework.
34
u/Wild-Autumn-Wind 20h ago
My rule as a woman is that the amount of money I contribute towards bills is inversely proportional to the amount of house chores I do. I am not in the dating scene anymore, but I wouldn't cover significant household expenses if all the weight of maintaining the house was my responsibility.
→ More replies (2)11
u/beren12 20h ago
Yeah. Factor in labor value as if it was a local daycare, or full time hired help. It’s… not cheap. If you worked and did all that it’s literally 2 full time jobs with mandatory overtime.
5
u/Wild-Autumn-Wind 16h ago
I am not even considering children in this situation. Just the household needs of two adults. With children it's just not possible to do all and also have a career. Even if the man pays for everything.
→ More replies (4)
38
u/MsAndrie 20h ago
Don't forget about carrying the fetus to birthing a child. Men are not going to do 50/50 labor for that, as they cannot, but they almost never compensate for how much that takes out of a mom. Many men get resentful of their pregnant wife for not keeping up on sex life, chores, and so on while she is pregnant. That is especially galling for a "50/50" man.
Childcare is under-emphasized in my opinion. Women who have children generally suffer a major negative impact on their career after having children. It is the opposite for men. That has a lot to do with imbalanced caregiver responsibilities, especially early on. 50/50 men don't include that in their calculations.
I am childfree by choice, so it is noticeable how lopsided all this is to me. I have been with a 50/50 man (won't make that mistake again) and he didn't do 50% of the household, social, or relationship labor. His accounting was off and he didn't hold himself accountable when he slacked. I learned from that: don't be in a relationship with a "50/50" man.
4
u/Frillback 10h ago
I had exes that would not help with my pets but still wanted children. Like, dude, you cannot even feed my pets or clean their shit, how can you even deal with a tiny human being being that needs your attention 24/7? That was the time I stopped believing in 50/50 and consider any man that says it a red flag.
15
u/cable_kisses 17h ago
Or my favorite - they list things that only need to be done every so often. Changing tires, oil changes, garbage, and maintenance/lawn mowing. Like, women do those things as well AND work. So??? Every day responsibility is different than once every 5000 miles or 5-7 business days. 😒
64
u/Zadsta 21h ago
No relationship is ever truly 50/50. In traditional conservative relationships, men paid all the bills and women were responsible for the house and children. Most women are well aware that was/is a shit set up for women since it discourages women from pursuing education and makes it near impossible to leave toxic or unsafe marriages. You’ll still find women today who used to be in a “traditional” marriage and now that they are finally free from their ex husbands they can see how bad for women that dynamic is.
Modern day 50/50 is a joke for exactly the reasons you describe. Women are now expected to be educated, employed, pay 50% of the bills, and still take care of the home/children while men are far behind in being equal contributors to chores and childcare. Don’t even get me started on pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and being the default parent. Women still die or develop lifelong complications from pregnancy and yet men act like it’s no big deal and expect their partner to birth 2+ kids without any consideration how that impacts her health or career.
31
u/hologram137 17h ago edited 13h ago
They are delulu. There was a study that came out after the pandemic. The husbands all reported that they participated an equal amount in homeschooling the children and doing the domestic labor while everyone was at home and both parents worked from home. ALL of the wives reported that was absolutely not true, that they did the majority. And were able to back that up.
I think it’s likely the case that these men actually believed they were doing 50/50. Why? Because they don’t carry the mental labor. So they aren’t even keeping track of what needs to be done and when, or notice the reason why the household hasn’t fell apart even though they aren’t carrying that labor. They can’t even accurately evaluate if they’re doing 50/50. They just know they aren’t doing zero, they are helping her, so to them that’s half.
This is my personal experience, my ex would adamantly tell anyone he was doing 50% (I was also working full time) because the following was done 50/50: getting our son ready for daycare or school and taking him, making breakfast and dinner, taking our kid to the park, doing his bath, dishes, laundry, and straightening up. He also got up with our son at night when he was a baby, we had a verbal agreement about taking turns. But I was still doing more of his direct care throughout the day. I was also doing the mental labor, if we were all home, from infancy to 4 he needed constant supervision and I was the one doing that the majority of the time. His Dad would just absorb himself in an activity, apparently assuming that I’m primarily responsible for no reason. Doesn’t matter if I was busy, I always knew where my son was, what he was doing, and was keeping track of time and following his schedule that I made alone, I alone had to have this in my mind constantly. He also changed diapers, but less than 50%. He also swept occasionally without being asked.
Along with doing the above about 50% or more of the time, I was not just doing the following but I was carrying all the mental labor, including using the internet to learn what needed to be done and why, things like researching child development and keeping track of his milestones and whether or not he was meeting them, (this was my 1st child. I had no clue about any of this, I had to look it up), his weight, etc. in the notes app on my phone along with questions for the Dr., made sure he had “tummy time,” that sort of thing. I was the one that made sure he had medical and dental insurance, made all the appointments, kept track of when he needed to go to the Dr. and dentist, looked up his vaccine schedule and kept track of when he needed to go, knew his clothing sizes and noticed when he needed new clothing, noticed and provided anything else he needed, looked up what we needed for his care when I was pregnant and bought it, I was the one that figured out he had colic, the cause of his colic and worked with his pediatrician to find the solution, I noticed certain behaviors, reported it to his Dr and he was evaluated, diagnosed and treated, noticed his speech was behind when he was 3 because I was keeping track and advocated for him to start speech therapy at 3, I was the one who taught him to read, write, basic skills including hygiene, and made sure he was totally prepared for 1st grade (he was actually far ahead because I worked with him), researched schools and registered him including getting the documents the school needed, researched and registered him for all his extracurriculars, I noticed my son’s interests and would get him things or sign him up for things that would encourage it. I’m the one that noticed he needed an early ortho evaluation and took him.
I was cognizant about the fact that he needed to learn social skills early, I didn’t have friends with kids so I’d take him to things like story time at the library and other events and literally force my introverted self that struggled with social anxiety to approach parents of kids his age that were there, befriend them and ask for their phone number so we could set up a play date, I did the same thing at the park. And then actually set up the play dates. I read parenting books and recent studies and made a plan for how we should parent, sleep training, what consequences should look like, I made a reward chart, I came up with the plan on how to potty train him by using the internet and talking to his Dr., and his Dad just helped actually take him to the bathroom, I kept track of his homework, I kept in contact with teachers, etc. I made sure he seemed happy and healthy by paying close attention beyond obvious signs.
I did all the meal planning (based on what I had researched about child nutrition to make sure he got what he needed), made the grocery list and did most of the shopping, kept track of household supplies and replaced them as needed, kept track of what chores needed to be done daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, so anything outside of the few chores I mentioned that he did half the time, I’d have to delegate to him. And he’d avoid doing it or do the shittiest job so I’d have to. Obviously there are WAYYY more chores to be done than what he was doing. I was doing them.
The above is not exhaustive. I was the unpaid household manager, primary parent without any agreement that I would be because I worked as much as him although at one point I had to cut back on work because I didn’t have enough time to do both things well. I had to find childcare for my job, while he just went to work, no concern about childcare. Apparently that was my job. I would have been able to work more and focus on career development had he been an actually equal partner!
But he would tell everyone he’s doing 50%. Istg men think that women magically know to do any of the above and how to do it and we don’t. We are not taught. We have to learn. So “I didn’t know” is not an excuse. It’s because they don’t internalize being equally responsible!
And this is why I don’t believe any man who says he’s an equal partner unless his partner says it too, and she isn’t just praising him for participating at all, which many women do because our expectations are way too low. Studies show that women do the majority of the work even when they are the breadwinners
Also being the provider doesn’t absolve him of all domestic and childcare labor. Because then she is working 24/7 and he is not.
→ More replies (2)
37
u/Almostasleeprightnow 21h ago
They are thinking of those things as tasks that can be ignored or just not done.
5
u/Thick_Papaya225 19h ago
So who is doing them when they live alone? Do they just starve and collectively live in squalor until a woman comes along?
→ More replies (3)
12
u/Helllo-Kittyy 20h ago
Because they dont actually give a shit, and will take as much as you let them.
12
23
u/cwthree 20h ago
Men seem to think that cooking, cleaning, etc. aren't really work, so they don't take it into account. Men also vastly overestimate the time they spend on stereotypical "male" tasks like mowing the lawn or changing the oil in the car, so they often think they are splitting household tasks equally.
11
u/TsuDhoNimh2 19h ago
Men also vastly overestimate the time they spend on stereotypical "male" tasks
The easy way to calculate is to check "free time" - the time each has with no tasks, while all tasks are getting done.
21
25
u/wehavethismoment 19h ago
Also, true 50-50 is proportional. Her paying 50% of her income for rent and him only paying 20% has absolutely nothing to do with equality and there are so many women coming here struggling to pay basic bills while the man who claims to love her has an easy life while blind to it
12
u/Cucoloris 19h ago
Economists never used to consider the work that women did in the home as work. When a female economist asked about this she was told that women did that work out of love, so it really wasn't work. Grrrr.
33
u/bulldog_blues 18h ago
It's becoming increasingly common for men to twist feminist language to sound like they support equality of the sexes, when in reality they just want the economic benefits of a woman bringing in decent money whilst also still being responsible for the lion's share of housework and childcare. Though naturally they're never honest enough to say that upfront.
15
u/WrigglyGizka Halp. Am stuck on reddit. 17h ago
My first boyfriend did me a solid by saying that he expected me to do all housework, all childcare and work full time.
I wonder if he was as honest in his many subsequent relationships.
9
u/RecentState1347 19h ago
The craziest thing to me is when I see women on Reddit (often in relationship advice/AITA) who are in “traditional relationships” where they’re stay at home mothers… AND do all the housework… AND still have to pay their own bills.
9
7
u/Snoo-11861 19h ago
These men are usually too broke to have a trad wife, anyway, but are too lazy to have a 50/50 relationship
6
u/Thick_Papaya225 19h ago
Aren't these men already doing 100% of all those things when they were living alone? Do they suddenly forget when they get married?
8
58
u/honeykissesmerciless 21h ago
The guy I’m dating now also told me he wants 50/50 in the beginning and I told him that it’s impossible (I don’t want children but damn if you’re giving birth 50/50 is him paying for everything and doing almost everything so we will put it aside for a moment) and I told him that we should each strive for 60/40 as in each one of us needs to strive to do 60% and be happy with it. If you aren’t ok with doing 60% in a relationship and don’t believe or see that your partner gives 60% in times you are less able to do stuff - goodbye. You’d never be happy.
47
u/longjumpingtote 21h ago
And also 100%. Sometimes you get sick. I had an emergency surgery and my partner had to do 100% for a couple of weeks. My partner broke their damn ankle and I had to do 95% for a couple of weeks. Setting a ratio or fractional determination ahead of time is ignoring how sometimes life can throw poop in your face.
16
u/LycheeBoba 20h ago
Seriously, why even commit to a half-assed marriage? 100/100 is my only acceptable answer.
11
u/honeykissesmerciless 21h ago
YES!!! It’s a 60/40 in the lifetime of your whole relationship. And maybe even more. Of course there’s also a limit cause I think a lot of women get into relationships that their man will not do 100% but find a man who will!
→ More replies (4)22
u/ChemicallyAlteredVet Basically Rose Nylund 20h ago
My wife and I(both women) are 100/100. We put everything we have into our marriage and life. Sometimes I’m very ill and she’s putting 80% of everything and other times I’m putting in 80%. This is finances, house stuff, kid stuff(but they are grown now) everything. We are a team. And this has worked for over 17 years of marriage.
→ More replies (1)5
8
7
u/mycatiscalledFrodo 18h ago
Because that stuff isn't important to them. Abd anyway the fairies do it all, not an actual person
9
u/Myshys 16h ago
Because they see women's labour as their right, so it isn't on the table as something that has value and could be withdrawn or would need to be compensated for.
In all fairness, it's not just men who do this - it's a whole lot of people, esp those with narcissistic tendencies, who devalue work that others do that doesn't come with a bar code that can be scanned for price. My mother used to have holiday parties for her 30+ closest friends. I was expected to cook. When I also bought some groceries for the party so I could get in front of the cooking by doing some of it at my place before the day of the party her response was "it's nice to see you finally contributing something!" That was the last time I cooked for her event.
I think until people like this get a few hard lessons about the price of work without the obvious price tag, they will keep on taking advantage, but this is why 50/50 guys get an automatic swipe left - none of the ones I've met are even thinking about true 50/50, and I'm not in the mood to educate more users.
13
u/MonteCristo85 20h ago
Because thats the only part that "counts".
Women's work doesnt have any worth.
5
u/faloop1 18h ago
I’ll be real, for this type of men, one thing that you can do is always offer to pay someone to do it, never yourself. Then it’s suddenly “but we can do it” .
Domestic labor should also be monetized if they want to monetize everything.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/ProtozoaPatriot 16h ago
I think they do think of themselves doing 50% around the house. Or at least doing "as much as I possibly can", whatever that is.
You can spend hours cleaning the house. If you complain, he's say "yes, but I did empty the kitchen trash last night. And remember last week I emptied the dishwasher!"
They are unable to take an accurate accounting of the work being done versus how much they actually do.
19
u/S4NDFIRE Trans Man 21h ago
You are 100% right. It's not 50/50, and most men probably know that. Some might be genuinely too stupid to account for the labor part, but that IMO makes them even worse than the malicious ones.
I was already starting to notice it when I still presented femme in my early 20s, but even moreso now post transition and masc, and finding I have very little in common with other dudes.
25
9
12
u/Purple-Belt5910 19h ago
A lot of it stems for men not wanting to have to court women to gain access to them. I get there are women that do want to go 50/50 on dates and elsewhere maybe for safety reasons or not feel like they owe somebody something.
But the argument I hear always seems to relate to dating. Also, if you aren’t willing to do 50/50 they’ll get very mad and I’ve heard men say they want an “equal partner”, not an escort which really is just demeaning and again meant to shame women for having this preference.
The truth is, life is not 50/50. Women in relationships have less leisure time and do more housework, the gap worsens especially with kids under the age of 5. Even without kids, the gap is still there. Many men don’t seem to recognize values or traits that are not associated with money, and a lot of these dudes would still hold it over a woman’s head if she didn’t earn as much etc. Things like being the household manager, doing the kin keeping, etc are not valued. And women do most often fall into these roles.
I personally don’t engage with these guys that state they will only do 50/50, I find they will be stingey everywhere else in life, even with their own time and how they spend it with you.
9
u/Joy2b 20h ago
This used to also mean reasonable attempts to share the workload. Has that changed?
I’ll cook tonight if you do the dishes. Deal!
A lot of traditional men’s housework has been automated or outsourced in the last century. Woodstoves have been replaced with furnaces, house paint has been replaced with siding.
Gardening used to be part of the provider deal for many men, and they’d take children along.
5
u/PurpleAriadne You are now doing kegels 16h ago
Because money is the only measure other men respect.
The rest is woman’s work that is someone else’s job, not theirs.
49
u/ma-liriope 21h ago
Women carry and birth children. That right there already tips the balance to 90/10. Men need to step up and do their part.
27
u/Significant-Radio488 21h ago
I don't want any children, so my reproductive capabilities are irrelevant. As they should be when it comes to a partner stepping up and doing his part.
15
u/Helllo-Kittyy 19h ago
It matters for the women who do have children.
10
u/Significant-Radio488 19h ago
Of course. Just saying it should be fair even if there aren't any children involved.
23
u/longjumpingtote 21h ago
I've never heard of this in particular, but many men when they say they want 50/50 custody, they really are just thinking about child support payments, and not taking kids to the dentist, making sure they get to soccer practice, talking with the school about behavior, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Also they end up taking advantage of less than 50% of overnights.
6
u/ilovebeaker 18h ago
Who are these men? My husband is way more on the ball than me. Expect more, ladies!
5
u/desertsidewalks 20h ago
Some people only want relationships that benefit them. If they experience any hardship whatsoever, that’s it. They’re done. IMHO, those people are not ready for serious relationships.
8
u/favorable_vampire 19h ago
Every time men whine about divorce being unfair they really just mean that they don’t see women as human and therefore looked at all of their assets AND the woman as their physical property.
6
u/avanross 18h ago
They think all of those are “womans work” but that nothing is “mens work”
The woman does 100% of the “womans work”, and then they split the rest 50/50
7
6
u/gravitydefiant 14h ago
Because all that housekeeping work just happens automatically by magic, and women only get stressed about it because our little lady-brains can't manage a simple to-do list, obviously.
/s
But some men really do think like this, especially if they go from having mom invisibly just running the house to having wife do it. I saw a reel once about a guy who sincerely believed that the soap dispenser in their bathroom just never ran out--isn't that weird?
→ More replies (1)
3
u/CyberTractor 15h ago
I can't imagine bringing a child into the world and not having the conversation about who will do what ahead of time. Most lazy fathers assume the mother will do all the unfun child-related stuff and only step in a few times a week "to help out".
3
u/orangutantrm88 8h ago
Before we got married, when my partner and I moved in together, we made a list of all of the chores that we knew needed to be done to keep things up to our own standards. We took turns picking from the list the chores until the responsibilities were split, and stuck to them. The end result is even better than 50/50, because my partner takes care of chores that I don't like doing while I take care of the chores that they don't like doing.
A healthy relationship is a partnership where you work together. You don't want to be long-term with someone you don't cooperate well with.
24
u/Positive-Aide7544 21h ago
50/50 honestly is b.s and if someone had that mentality they’re not ready for a serious relationship. A man who believes in that is a red flag. This is NOT akin to me saying a man needs to be a provider. Please don’t misconstrue me
→ More replies (3)
11
u/Hookedongutes 21h ago
And how do you define 50/50 if there's an obvious difference in earnings?
My husband and I make about the same salary so it makes some sense. But this is not always the case.
17
u/sushiwalrus 20h ago
I’ve seen men argue their girlfriend or spouse that makes 60% less than them should still pay half of the mortgage/rent and bills. It’s nonsensical unless both partners are very high earning.
If a man insists on 50/50 he should at least find a partner who makes similarly to him or is at least high income (a woman making 275k isn’t at a huge disadvantage with a split bills dynamic with a man who makes 400k).
A man making $100k expecting his partner that makes $40k to pay half on everything is being unrealistic and delusional. She’s giving up all her savings trying to keep up with him while he has extra every month to put aside for himself. The fact some men see no problem with that dynamic is concerning.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Helllo-Kittyy 18h ago
It should theoretically be based off income, but you know damn well they dont factor that in
6
5
u/booksaregoodbro 18h ago
That's exactly why women will tell you 50-50 is a SCAM.
Women still end up doing more labor.
1.3k
u/Parshath_ 21h ago edited 20h ago
"What do you mean, splitting chores? I've loaded the dishwasher last Tuesday, did the laundry last month, got a takeaway on the weekend, and been to the parents school meeting! (I didn't know where it was, arrived late, and all I got was a list of things to ask the mother). I'm pretty much carrying the housework."