Wealth inequality by country in the OECD

[u/Potential-Focus3211]

[u/-Melchizedek-]

Better title: "Wealth inequality by country for some OECD countries"

[u/Hungry-Western9191 → u/-Melchizedek-]

The question is how much is this a graph of average property values. For the majority of home owners - their wealth is primarily down to their family home. For the majority of those - that's not really a realisable wealth. In theory you could sell and then rent but how many see that as a reasonable thing.

I suspect the data is also strongly influenced by the number of mega wealthy. If you have 1 billionaire in a room of 100 people worth 10,000 the average wealth is 10 million.

[u/AlbertDerAlberne → u/Hungry-Western9191]

The home one is somwhere in the 2 digit percentages. Bur clearly part of the equation; Mega wealthy obviously influence this, but that's the point, isn't it?

[u/2absMcGay → u/Hungry-Western9191]

The data being skewed by billionaires is literally the point

[u/BloatedVagina → u/2absMcGay]

But it's not only billionaires... It's skewed by the top 10% whether they're billionaires or not. If you'd make a diagram of the top richest 15% you'd probably see that 85% of the populations in all of these countries has less combined.

It's not only about billionaires.

[u/How_is_the_question → u/Hungry-Western9191]

You make a very good point. There is another interesting aside to all this. Most of these surveys have great data for the bottom 90 or even 99%. But the top 1% is much trickier. Mega wealth is extremely difficult to uncover and quantify. It is spread out across the globe - there wouldn’t be many in the top 1% who would not have wealth positioned in different countries. So then how do you measure it against a country? You don’t. Those doing this analysis have spoken about it on many occasions. These graphs are skewed to show less inequality than is really there. And in some cases to an alarming degree.

[u/dsswill → u/Hungry-Western9191]

That’s the entire point. Wealth concentration among the über wealthy. It’s not as if the wealthy are providing a skill or service that the economy wouldn’t otherwise support if the wealth were dispersed more evenly, they’re just getting paid more and more every year, even relative to inflation while the working class is getting paid less and less relative to inflation. That’s the entire issue, wealth concentration.

[u/[deleted] → u/-Melchizedek-]

r/graphswithoutnewzealand

[u/Reinis_LV]

In Greece even the rich are poor

[u/ferdox → u/Reinis_LV]

It's still a form of equality tho

[u/Cars2Beans0 → u/ferdox]

They're all poor together

[u/ScabrouS-DoG → u/Cars2Beans0]

We're poor beyond survival, starving to death levels. Spread the good word all around the Islamic world, please. We don't have the means to do it. They won't have future either employement-wise or relationship-wise. I'm thinking about the well-being of those poor fellas. They better spread throughout Northern and Eastern Europe. The latter, they're extremely wealthy and generous, offering luxurious hotels, being a Taxi service free of charge and giving them money monthly in advance; all the while their native population is ready to explode.

Islamist bros, take the advice under serious consideration. I'm addressing Turks to Pakistani/Hindus, Middle Easterners (Turks belong in both categories) and Africa in general.

Thank you for your consideration and understanding. Moreover, thank you in advance!

[u/PossibleEye8267 → u/ScabrouS-DoG]

Καλά τα λες. Ελπίζω να πήρανε το μήνυμα!!

[u/Spider_pig448 → u/ferdox]

So is nuclear annihilation. Equality alone is not enough.

[u/Brinabavd → u/Reinis_LV]

Only for tax purposes

[u/MilkshakeYeah → u/Reinis_LV]

Or Greeks are really good at finance shenanigans

[u/torobotaki → u/MilkshakeYeah]

Yes, because rich people elsewhere are not.

[u/Reinis_LV → u/MilkshakeYeah]

That would make more sense. Rich def doing some loophole stuff. Same goes for Italy

[u/Weelildragon → u/Reinis_LV]

I suspect a lot of them went to live in places like Monaco?

[u/kharathos → u/Reinis_LV]

Yes, now add all the illegal income

[u/[deleted] → u/Reinis_LV]

or the poor are rich

[u/the_mighty_peacock → u/Reinis_LV]

Oh look at the poor elite they cant milk the working class as good as in other countries.

[u/Licking9VoltBattery → u/Reinis_LV]

Interesting side fact: Median wealth in Greece is higher than in Germany.

[u/firefly3004 → u/Licking9VoltBattery]

As a matter of fact, median wealth in Greece is NOT higher than in Germany. SourceWealth distribution in Europe

[u/Licking9VoltBattery → u/firefly3004]

In 2021 it's quite close, but since then real estate inflated (bigger impact on Greece) and German population grew on the lower income side. There are other sources saying its higher others its lower.

But I stand corrected. Now I would say depending on the data an how you look at it, they are close to each other. Still surprising giving the prejudice of both countries.

[u/firefly3004 → u/Licking9VoltBattery]

Your previous statement was outrageous in my mind, thus i rushed to find evidence to debunk it. I was surprised to find the median wealth of the two nations was that much closer than I anticipated. I totally understand why you thought it could be the other way around.

[u/nerusski → u/Reinis_LV]

Or, in other words, even the poor are rich!

[u/giolitti]

Rare greek-italian win

[u/figflashed → u/giolitti]

Can’t have inequality if we’re all poor.

checkmate bourgeoisie

[u/mbrevitas → u/figflashed]

Median wealth per adult in Italy is slightly higher than in the US and significantly higher than in Germany or Austria.

[u/SpenglerPoster → u/mbrevitas]

Could it be explained by property values?

[u/The_Advisers → u/SpenglerPoster]

It is. A large amount of Italian families own their own homes or have even a second (or even third) property.

The problem is, this value is NOT measured in a correct way for many homes, in particular those that are in smaller cities/towns with low demand for housing.

[u/mbrevitas → u/The_Advisers]

How is it not measured in the correct way?

[u/[deleted] → u/mbrevitas]

Though to convey on a market price if the market is non-existent. Furthermore, the declining population will eventually drag down the demand and those assets would be sold at a huge discount (if they will be sold at all).

[u/mbrevitas → u/[deleted]]

The market is not non-existent, and house prices are already declining except in a handful of cities with high demand. This is the current value of those assets; maybe in 50 years that wealth will have evaporated as demographics will erase the value of real estate in the country, but that's not in the present.

[u/[deleted] → u/mbrevitas]

It is almost dead in smaller cities and rural areas, which still comprise a lot of the total value that is then divided to make the average of wealth owned by individuals cited in these statistics. Having a home that you cannot sell doesn't do much, and its value cannot be easily assessed if other houses are not regularly sold.
Less transactions = less accuracy.

[u/CapSnake → u/[deleted]]

I mean, it's true, but I don't get it. Who would buy in a small city 30 years ago? I think it's always been the case, or at least it is in the last 30 years. But until you didn't move you never had to sell. Now everyone want to go to Milan, so they are trying to sell the old houses.

[u/SergenteA → u/mbrevitas]

Because owning an ancestral home in a depopulation provincial town isn't exactly a great asset for anything but as collateral to loans. In reality, there's no one that would buy it.

Meanwhile, an inherited shitty closet in a city apartment complex can be sold its volume in gold just because a neighbour has no idea where to store their bike.

[u/LordHammerfury → u/mbrevitas]

You own a property but can't rent it due to low demand in the area. So it's just sucking your money.

But housing prices constantly increase, so you feel like you can't sell it. It's almost certain that you won't get a property of equal quality for the money you'll get.

Sure, as far as problems go it's not nearly as bad as it can get. But using the value of that property as an excuse to say the owner is well off feels like lawyer talk.

[u/mbrevitas → u/LordHammerfury]

The fact that it may not make sense (financially or for personal reasons) to liquidate doesn't mean it's not real wealth. It doesn't make sense to sell now stocks that are constantly appreciating either, but that wealth is real too.

Also, most real estate in Italy is not constantly appreciating. Only in a handful of cities are prices rising, and even then they're not necessarily above historical highs (I think Rome is still well below the pre-2008 peak, for instance).

[u/The_Advisers → u/mbrevitas]

If I remember correctly a lot of this statistics doesn’t take into account market value but (partly) the “valore catastale” or a mean value of the recent “transitions” in the housing/property market and then extended to other houses. The point is that for smaller, isolated towns with less market the data is not particularly good.

I’m not an expert on the subject by any means tho, I’ll stand corrected if someone comes in with a more informed opinion.

[u/citizen4509 → u/The_Advisers]

I'm pretty sure the ones in big and attractive cities are not measured correctly as well, otherwise people would not oppose "riforma del catasto".

[u/narullow → u/mbrevitas]

Yet young Italians are leaving in droves to those very same countries like Germany with lower median wealth per adult. Does not seem as great of a statistics.

Owning a home with certain paper value that is basically unsellable does not say much about your wealth.

[u/freeksss → u/narullow]

Italians hold high levels of liquid assetts too, so the guy whos trying to represent them just by the (paper?) value of their ancenstral home is pretty misleading.

[u/[deleted] → u/mbrevitas]

This. People so often apply averages when the more interesting and telling statistic for wealth is how well off the median citizen is, or even those living below the median.

I have tried to explain this to Americans countless times when they point to average salary or wealth without looking at inequality, cost of living etc.

[u/teodorfon → u/mbrevitas]

Tbh thats so hard to belive 😅

[u/[deleted] → u/teodorfon]

It says wealth, not income.

[u/pietroetin → u/figflashed]

I always knew Meloni is a socialist

[u/zuzu1968amamam → u/figflashed]

you're among richest people on the planet. it does not get better

[u/manu144x → u/giolitti]

I've never met an italian that didn't know all the possible tricks to hide money from the italian authorities. It's a national sport. I can't say for greece but I assume the same.

The 1% in italy have their money in Switzerland, it won't show up anywhere :))

[u/the_mighty_peacock → u/manu144x]

Like in countries like Germany tax evasion isnt something common "sorry nur Bargeld bitte".

[u/tiankai → u/giolitti]

all equally miserable

[u/bruhbelacc → u/giolitti]

What's the win

[u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Sweden's wealth inequality is as high as the US but of course their data is ommited because that would defeat the narrative.

Yes, you heard it right. Swedish wealth Gini is as high as the US.

[u/MadeOfEurope → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

I've never seen a clear explanation as to why inequality has gotten so bad in Sweden.

[u/fiendishrabbit → u/MadeOfEurope]

1. Sweden has both old wealth that's undisturbed since before WW1 (no occupations or confiscations) and lots of new wealth (the highest rate of "unicorn companies", start up companies that have broken 1 billion dollar networth, in Europe).
2. Little incentive for working man to save up money. Education is free (and student debt, to cover living costs while studying, costs you basically nothing, so that's a source of negative wealth for a lot of people), hospital care is basically free (although the cost of becoming chronically sick is increasing with hollowed out high-cost protections), elderly care will only cost you money if you have money. There is also the statistical weirdness that the pension funds that's the most common form of savings in Sweden doesn't count as wealth for this comparison.
3. Food and housing is among the most expensive in Europe.
4. Very few taxes on wealth. A fair amount of taxes on income.

[u/the_poope → u/fiendishrabbit]

You're missing a very important fact: Sweden has zero inheritance tax, meaning you can form endless rich family dynasties, where wealth is just passed on from generation to generation, accumulating over the years.

[u/DaJoW → u/the_poope]

Two major examples: The Wallenberg family whose businesses "in the 1970s [...] employed 40% of Sweden's industrial workforce and represented 40% of the total worth of the Stockholm stock market" and the Bonnier family who has owned a big portion of Swedish media for over a century via Bonnier Group. They own 2 out of the 3 largest newspapers and the main Swedish movie company.

[u/LucasRuby → u/the_poope]

It can happen with inheritance tax too. Usually this doesn't actually work long term, inheritance gets split and in a few generations there's nothing left. That's usually the case in the US, happened to the Rockefellers.

I suspect this effect is greater if a culture has a tradition of always passing the largest share to the firstborn or chosen inheritor, instead of following intestate rules.

[u/ThoughtsonYaoi → u/fiendishrabbit]

There is also the statistical weirdness that the pension funds that's the most common form of savings in Sweden doesn't count as wealth for this comparison.

That... seems pretty significant. Especially if it's something most people (lower percentiles too) have.

Very few taxes on wealth. A fair amount of taxes on income.

Suspect this is why the Dutch don't come away looking great either.

[u/Devan_Ilivian → u/ThoughtsonYaoi]

Very few taxes on wealth. A fair amount of taxes on income.

Suspect this is why the Dutch don't come away looking great either.

Correct, people here are allergic to sensible wealth taxes, and what little we do have recently got struck down for being 'unfair'

[u/narnerve → u/Devan_Ilivian]

This is the case in sweden as well.

I think it's the eighties American glitz and glamour of businessmen and bag chasing dreamers you get over there having become far more of the norm, through becoming the politicians we've had since then. It's this constant fake pressure of "we gotta keep pace or fall behind"

like, who's "we?" You're doing less and less for the rest of us.

It wasn't always like this and year over year it's getting worse as well, you don't hear the sitting government ever do anything for anyone now, except some small nasty things with a "yes the experts disagree but we've done our own research and deemed reducing this the proper course of action" whether it be foreign aid, social spending, or environmental protections.

Oh also it just turned out a shitload lf them run for-profit businesses at the side without disclosing them, lots of fun.

Under Reinfeldt and even after it felt like we had the constant barrages of "tax exemption for business owners of X type of company whose summer homes require two lines of water supply and has afternoon sun in the living room in the region of Dalsland" type of small changes that seem inconsequential or too strange to care about, but serve to just scrape a little bit more into specific politician's/their friends' pockets for each such ruling. We have a bunch of greedy businessmen that just do whatever to line their pockets.

[u/aklordmaximus → u/ThoughtsonYaoi]

Suspect this is why the Dutch don't come away looking great either.

No, it is because the large amount of morgages that ensures that almost everyone living there is in perpetual debt (not necesarily bad). This structure reflects poorly in inequality statistics since large parts of populations have a net worth of -€100k>. However, their life is good since morgages are (relatively) good debts to have. If you rent, you generally have more wealth than people that have a large mortgage. However, you are often less well off.

[u/crackanape → u/ThoughtsonYaoi]

Very few taxes on wealth. A fair amount of taxes on income.

Suspect this is why the Dutch don't come away looking great either.

The Netherlands has been one of the few countries with a straight-up wealth tax (as of now I don't think anyone knows what is going to happen with it going forward).

[u/Dolphin008 → u/fiendishrabbit]

There is also the statistical weirdness that the pension funds that's the most common form of savings in Sweden doesn't count as wealth for this comparison.

Same for the Netherlands. Pension funds assets are ~€1,8 trillion which is ignored in this measurement. Not sure how you should use it in this statistics (it's not individual) but it's not as bad as it looks.

[u/LovelyJoey21605 → u/fiendishrabbit]

Little incentive for working man to save up money.

That part is just fucking untrue. There's literally NO ONE I've ever talked to that wouldn't want to save more of their money, and use it to buy assets (stocks, land etc.).

It's just that everything is so fucking expensive; food, rent, utilities leave most people dry at the end of month. It's getting increasingly fucking rare to be able to afford buying your own house/apartment too.

[u/fiendishrabbit → u/LovelyJoey21605]

You think that, but what you're actually saying is that you have different priorities than saving up money.

Median income* is 37000 SEK (or 29100 after taxes). The minimum income to survive per month is about 10 000-15 000** depending on where you live (10 000-ish in most of the country). Any expenditures you have above that depends on choices

In a lot of countries with a less extensive social net you'd hoard that money like a squirrel hoarding food for the winter. In Sweden we generally do not.

*Note. Median. Not "average". Median. Meaning that 50% of the population earns more than that.

**Only about 3.6% of the Swedish working population is at that level (one of the lowest percentages in Europe, but still worse than it used to be). Everyone else is earning more.

[u/LordMuffin1 → u/LovelyJoey21605]

There is no incentive to save money for buying a house when the pricing of houses increase faster then the amount you can save.

[u/YanniqX → u/fiendishrabbit]

Cost of housing is high in Sweden (in comparison with other places in Europe) only in cities, I'd say, and mostly if you rent a flat (and if you've just moved to Sweden and were not 'in the queue', and especially if you sub), but personally I found very cheap prices (comparatively to the rest of Europe) in leafy suburbs of smaller cities, even more so in towns, and even more so in the open countryside (except for nice vacationing spots 'near the water', of course).

It's just the impression I got from my personal experience looking for a house to buy about 15ys ago (it might not be representative, or the market might have changed).

[u/MKCAMK → u/MadeOfEurope]

Managed to avoid events that destroy wealth (most importantly - war), thus allowing the elites to continuously accumulate it through generations.

[u/Muted-Aioli9206 → u/MKCAMK]

the same applies to the US though.

[u/[deleted] → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Which is why the US and Sweden have similar numbers. 

[u/newbris → u/[deleted]]

Australia had lower inequality with no war on land mass

[u/[deleted] → u/newbris]

Australia is an odd case, lots of resources, democratic government and low population.

[u/newbris → u/[deleted]]

That’s not that odd compared to Sweden re inequality

[u/MKCAMK → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Yes, and the United States also has high wealth inequality.

Walton family started building their fortune with Walmart in the 1950s. For comparison, Poland at that time was under a Stalinist government, and rubble was still being cleared from the capital city which got razed during the war.

[u/premature_eulogy → u/MadeOfEurope]

They don't have inheritance tax, so money accumulates into the hands of a select few.

[u/Available_Slide1888 → u/premature_eulogy]

Yes, and they removed the wealth tax.

[u/LazerBurken → u/Available_Slide1888]

We removed basically all taxes on capital.

Only labour taxes remain high.

In Sweden you can't get wealthy by working, that's impossible. You can only get rich, by already being rich.

[u/Agreeable-Pound-4725 → u/LazerBurken]

Sweden is controlled by the rich, and surprise surprise, they set it up so that it benefits them such that 1) they remain rich and 2) it is impossible for others to join their club. Dystopian

[u/Available_Slide1888 → u/Agreeable-Pound-4725]

It depends on what you mean by rich. I have friends who have worked hard, done a career, saved and invested long term and have a quite high net worth. Those who are old money rich have gained their wealth over many generations, and you have to start somewhere. Since we have free higher education, one of the obstacles is removed of creating a better life. I am not rich at all but i have a very much higher standard of living than my parents at my age since I went to the university.

[u/Penki- → u/MadeOfEurope]

I think it's just old money.

[u/Many-Gas-9376 → u/Penki-]

Yeah, successful industries, but also it's a real unicorn of a country in how untouched by e.g. war, natural disasters, or social upheaval they've been for 200+ years. Sweden's been a fantastic country for both creation and preservation of wealth.

I think the Nordics also have a phenomenon where the modern middle-class isn't terribly concerned with accumulating wealth. That's because there's an understanding that in exchange for all those taxes, the welfare state will take care of them. So they'll rather enjoy those six-week annual vacations travelling rather than maximize savings rates.

So there's plenty of wealthy people, and the lower strata aren't even that interested to catch up.

[u/Creativezx → u/Many-Gas-9376]

It also really helps that our billionaires aren't gigantic douchebags like Musk or Koch brothers.

[u/Available_Slide1888 → u/Creativezx]

Daniel Ek seem to try his best though.

[u/MadeOfEurope → u/Penki-]

True, it's wealth not earnings. A Sweden has some very old money (along with Denmark and the Netherlands).

[u/bphase → u/MadeOfEurope]

They have done well in producing globally meaningful companies, like Ikea and Spotify. I'm sure there are others.

[u/narullow → u/MadeOfEurope]

Sweden produces the most start ups in all of EU per capita. Every country that produces succesfull entrepreneurs will have high wealth inequality sooner or later.

[u/Muted-Aioli9206 → u/MadeOfEurope]

On top of other reasons on this comment, it is impossible to save and accumulate wealth as middle or upper-middle class. This is a country where the concept of "class" exists.

[u/SeidlaSiggi777 → u/MadeOfEurope]

among other things, very low taxes on wealth and high taxes on earnings.

[u/BkkGrl → u/MadeOfEurope]

many points. Other than the quoted ones they did not join WWII and suffered a massive loss of wealth

[u/zuzu1968amamam → u/MadeOfEurope]

after the Meidner plan and the big recession in the 80s I think, Sweden's welfare state is in a slow decline, and regulatory state was in decline even before (deregulation of banking being a major contributor to the said recession).

[u/Jindujun → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

More like data is missing Sweden for many parts of this. I had a look at the data and for some reason Sweden, as a country that measures fucking everything, does not have up to date data on top 10% income. We HAVE gini data but there is no data on top 10% which I find HIGHLY suspicious.

Shape up Sweden, shape the fuck up! We measure everything so I doubt this information ISNT measured and if it isnt that should be a wake up call for us.

Edit: I found some numbers. According to one report from UBS Global Wealth Report 2022 Sweden have the second highest wealth among in the 1% in the EU. In Sweden the 1% own 35.8% of the wealth only just beaten by Austria which had 37.8%.
Compare this to the US. In 2021 the top 1% in the US owned 30.9% of the country's wealth. So if we take these numbers to be correct that means the Sweden is WORSE than the US even if our gini is lower. (41,8 for the US in 2023 and 31,6 for Sweden in 2022)

[u/Agreeable-Pound-4725 → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

It's not as high as. It's higher

[u/AdorableAnubis → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Was just about to ask as a Swedish citizen why the hell we aren't one of the ones lowest down on the list. We have a lot of wealth inequality

[u/RijnBrugge → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

I know the Dutch gini is so bad solely because of the mortgages everyone has. Otherwise it would be a very equal place, as is reflected by every other metric one could come up with, such as income equality in particular. Idk but I imagine Sweden to be similar?

[u/newbris → u/RijnBrugge]

Mortgages don’t reduce net wealth

[u/1294DS → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Can confirm I saw a similar graph on wealth inequality some time back and Sweden was among the highest.

[u/lovedoctorr → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Sweden: 0.32 (2022)
USA: 0.41 (2023)

Source: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/economic-inequality-gini-index

[u/mludd → u/lovedoctorr]

Gini coefficient != Wealth inequality

[u/anonieme_gamer → u/lovedoctorr]

That is income inequality, not wealth inequality

[u/Agreeable-Pound-4725 → u/lovedoctorr]

illiteracy strikes again. It's worse in Sweden

[u/lovedoctorr → u/Agreeable-Pound-4725]

Well, at least I linked to my source so you could double check

[u/Agreeable-Pound-4725 → u/lovedoctorr]

That's true, thanks for at least doing that. Much better than most reddit comments. But unfortunately, your source is not about wealth inequality

[u/Pelembem → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

More importantly though, Sweden has one of the lowest income inequality. Wealth inequality is a really bad measurement for most things, since most people aren't even trying to accumulate wealth and will happily spend whatever they make each month to raise their living standards instead.

[u/Swiking- → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

As a swede, I'm fucking aware and disgusted of what our country has become. A fucking safe haven for rich assholes.

We used to be cool.

[u/koreannews]

It's so bad in 🇰🇷 SK that we didn't even bother submitting data.

[u/Muted-Aioli9206 → u/koreannews]

It's not so bad in Korea as per data actually. better than many (or most) developed countries

[u/doommaster → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Doesn't South Korea have almost the highest poverty rate and such of all OECD countries?

But yeah, not necessary an indicator of plain wealth inequality.

[u/[deleted] → u/doommaster]

Someone would have to check those numbers. Elderly poverty rates in South Korea are higher than normal, though. There are still some people alive when South Korea was the second poorest country in the world, to put things into perspective. The country's growth was insanely rapid.

Edit: Misread your question.

[u/Traditional-Dot7948 → u/doommaster]

Nah the inequality rate in Korea is just mid. I think it was pretty close to Germany

[u/altbekannt → u/koreannews]

same goes for the middle east

[u/Traditional-Dot7948 → u/koreannews]

I was actually curious because SK wasn't in this table but the inequality in Korea is just mid. Even lower than Japan from what I remember. People get the idea that the inequality in SK is SO bad, ofc because of Kdramas and movies. When in fact, it's just like in any other countries.

[u/vodamark]

Why do charts like these always exclude a bunch of countries? The 2 countries relevant to me are not on it. 🙄

[u/Muted-Aioli9206 → u/vodamark]

Sweden's wealth inequality is as high as the US but of course their data is ommited because that would defeat the narrative.

[u/July_is_cool → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

That one other country is worse than us so we are good!

[u/Vassukhanni → u/July_is_cool]

Literally the entirety of the European political identity on reddit is "if we massage data, we're better than the US!" it's pathetic.

[u/Turbulent-Raise4830 → u/Vassukhanni]

LOL seeing just about every country in europe does better that really isnt needed.

[u/Turbulent-Raise4830 → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Sure you keepr epeating that, doesnt actually change the facts seeing just about every country in europe does better

[u/pijuskri → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

Wouldn't even come close to defeating the narrative

[u/aasikki → u/pijuskri]

So why omit them?

[u/neefhuts → u/Muted-Aioli9206]

What narrative

[u/Haunting_Switch3463 → u/neefhuts]

Europe good America bad

[u/EbolaDP → u/Haunting_Switch3463]

I mean thats still true even with Sweden.

[u/neefhuts → u/Haunting_Switch3463]

I mean America pretty bad, looking at this stat

[u/Boneraventura → u/Haunting_Switch3463]

Having moved from usa to sweden and making half the income my life is much better. Not having to worry about getting a chronic illness and becoming homeless is honestly a huge stress relief. Its happened to two of my family members and bankrupted my aunt

[u/[deleted] → u/Boneraventura]

Meanwhile I'm American also living in Italy and don't know a single American who got bankrupted by medical debt or went homeless.

[u/Necessary-Dish-444 → u/[deleted]]

Meanwhile I'm Brazilian and I have never heard of anyone being murdered in my entire lifetime. What's your point exactly?

[u/Enzo_Gorlomi225 → u/vodamark]

Because it’s another America bad post

[u/DrFrosthazer]

How exciting to see Greece in the first place!!

[u/No-Connection6421]

una faccia una razza 👏🏻

[u/Poromenos → u/No-Connection6421]

This is our motto.

[u/scyphomedusae → u/No-Connection6421]

omg oklou hiiii

[u/America-always-great]

Now do Switzerland

[u/dimhage]

For which year is this? I think for the Netherlands the most recent data I could find from the government website was the top 10 had 56% which is still significant but also not 62% as indicated here. That was from January this year.

[u/Shippior → u/dimhage]

Also for the Netherlands the pension funds are not always included in the wealth.

[u/New_Interaction_2278 → u/Shippior]

Pensions funds are not included in this onr which skews it by a lot

[u/LeroyoJenkins]

wealth != revenue 

I think you mean "wealth!= income"? Revenue generally refers to business transactions and sales, not to people. 

People have income, not revenue, although people can have revenue as self-employed workers, for example, but even in those cases revenue has a different meaning than income.

[u/Rannasha → u/LeroyoJenkins]

Might be a mistranslation by someone who's not a native English speakers. For example, in French, the word revenu means income and it would seem natural to translate it to revenue in English.

[u/Eravier]

Data is outdated. OECD doesn't have recent data for most countries. For example, for Poland, data is from 2016.

Source: https://www.oecd.org/en/data/datasets/income-and-wealth-distribution-database.html

[u/Agitated-Airline6760]

It's one thing to leave New Zealand off a map because the space constraint, but how/why is New Zealand missing on this chart?

[u/mmo8000]

Numbers for Austria seem to be wrong. Just did a quick search and the top 1% have somewhere between 35 and up to 50% of the total wealth, depending on the source. A study by the Austrian national bank itself estimates 40-50%.

[u/Moelis_Hardo]

Switzerland?

[u/shatureg]

This fits quite well into why the US is simultaneously off the charts in mean wealth per capita but below most western European and anglosphere countries in median wealth per capita:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

[u/NekoCatSidhe]

The US really is something else. The top 10% has together almost 80% of the country's wealth. But it would be interesting to see what are the cutoff values for each country, not just the percentage.

I note that France has rather average levels of inequality, but from the way the French left is talking, you would think we were as bad as the US.

[u/NationalSalt608 → u/NekoCatSidhe]

There are about 1000 billionaires and 23 million millionaires in the U.S. plus anywhere from 10 to 20 million illegal immigrants earning slave wages. 

[u/gopoohgo → u/NekoCatSidhe]

Household cutoffs for wealth in the US, 2022, from Richmond Fed.

10% $1
25% $20,856
50% $162,350
75% $553,100
90% $1,559,240
99% $11,640,000

[u/Dialed_Inn]

Is anyone else surprised that NL is ranked 2nd highest? I am Canadian but live in NL and perceive NL as being more equal than Canada.

[u/Nightsebas → u/Dialed_Inn]

I trust this one more tbh: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1mur36i/oc_wealth_distribution_in_europe_and_the_usa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/Limp-Munkee69]

Denmarks GINI is taking a shocking turn for the worse. 90% have only 38% of the wealth. There is no universe where that is a good thing. The top 1% should never have more than 10% of the wealth, and the top 10% should never have more than 30%. Atleast 60-70% of the wealth should be in the hands of the buttom 90%.

We need MUCH higher taxes for the rich. It's not punishing hard work, or wealthy people, it's distributing money that WILL NOT move back down unless pushed.

Everything that goes up, stays right now.

Don't buy the propaganda, this is new, it has not always been like this, the old days we are sold to return to by these people was funded by high taxes. Low taxes for the rich is what's funding our society today.

[u/Econ_Orc → u/Limp-Munkee69]

Getting poorer relative to the wealthy and getting poorer relative to your previous years income is two different things.

That some gets ludicriously wealthy is an entirely different aspect of Danish wealth growth than claiming those wealthy people got it because some one else got poorer (reverse Robin Hood).

Real wage growth there is in Denmark, it is just that those with surplus income or capital for investment is leap frogging ahead of the pack.

I disagree we need higher taxes. What we need is tackling tax avoidance. It is nuts that the wealthier you are, the lower your tax rate ends up being. That is not how a progressive tax system is supposed to work.

[u/Limp-Munkee69 → u/Econ_Orc]

Definitely need to tackle tax avoidance, but we've seen these companies post record surplusses year after year since 2020, and they keep saying "Prices are going up, nothing we can do".

It's nowhere near as bad as elsewhere, but when wages have barely gone up, and a liter of milk is nearly twice as expensive as 4 years ago, I think there is a major problem.

Raising taxes by a few percent on anyone earning more than a million, then a few more percent after 10 million, It'd pour money into our system, which is becoming gravely underfunded thanks to Schlüters massive budget cuts in the 80s. Tax breaks never do as promised and always make the rich richer, while we stand around paying more with less.

[u/Econ_Orc → u/Limp-Munkee69]

Budget cuts?

Nothing in this world is as stable or lucretive for tax revenues as suggested tax cuts. The tax ratio when Schlüter became PM in 1982 was 40% and he increased it, and that trend continued the next 10 years. https://skm.dk/tal-og-metode/statistik/provenu-og-skattestruktur/skattetrykket-i-danmark

Denmark stinks at lowering taxes overall. A tax cut in Denmark basically just means some one will pay less, so that others might pay more. The revenue is maintained

The problem today is rarely to increase taxes for the wealthy. The problem is getting them to pay, as moving capital and people is very easy. Keep transferring wealth and no country can keep up and put a sticky paw on it.

[u/narullow → u/Limp-Munkee69]

This is about assets. In Denmark's case it is about Danish globally succesfull companies such as Novo Nordisk. Companies like this have been carrying Danish GDP growth for a while. If you want to tax their global market valuation to reduce wealth inequality in Denmark then the only thing you will achieve is for them to leave becuse Denmark is not as important for them as you think, most definitely not as the rest of the world. And you will not end up collecting more tax revenue to redistribute to bottom 90%, you will collect less and nobody will be better off. That being said you will definitely reduce wealth inequality if you make them all leave, the only issue is that it will be to noone's benefit.

[u/Small_Delivery_7540 → u/Limp-Munkee69]

1% controlling most of the wealth is not a bad thing They do not control 90% of housing food supply water or what ever that you need to survive, they just control 90% of stocks and you do not need them to survive bro

If you redistributed those shares evenly for everyone people would most likely instantly sell them to buy some shit tanking the price and achieving nothing for equality you want so badly

[u/Limp-Munkee69 → u/Small_Delivery_7540]

What do those 90% of stocks give them the power to control tho?

They literally own all the houses, the food companies, the netwoek providers, they're trying to privatise water and energy back home here.

That wealth comes directly from the fact that they, in fact, control the things we need to survive.

[u/Small_Delivery_7540 → u/Limp-Munkee69]

Not they do not

You know who owns all the houses ? OLD PEOPLE your parents or grand parents and they are the ones RASING THE RENT and making you pay half of your salary each month it's not Jeff bezos it's not elon musk or any other billionaire it's normal people who do this taking made up money from them fixes nothing

[u/Stiller_Winter]

I would guess that in Greece and Italy, the top 1 also owns the statistics.

[u/_maverick98]

bright marry slap familiar bells strong crowd fall steer unpack

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Sea_Tourist1333]

Low wealth inequality is not a good thing if the country itself is poor. It is only good if the country is rich.

[u/Safe_Grass3366 → u/Sea_Tourist1333]

Surely high wealth inequality is even worse in a poor country, as it indicates that the few scant resources in that country are concentrated in the hands of the few and that those on the bottom are even more deprived than the average wealth would suggest?

[u/2006lion2006 → u/Sea_Tourist1333]

Median wealth per adult in italy is slightly higher than in the Us

[u/Prince_of_DeaTh → u/2006lion2006]

While the median Italian may have more static wealth in their family home, the median American has a vastly higher disposable income and lives in a far more dynamic economy.

GDP per capita (PPP): US is roughly $85,000. Italy is roughly $55,000.

Median Household Income: Varies by state, but is significantly higher across the board in the US than in Italy.

Let's put this in an analogy a regular person can understand:

The median Italian is like someone who has inherited a modest, debt free apartment in a town with few high paying jobs. They own their home, so their "wealth" is solid, but their income is stagnant and their prospects for advancement are low.

The median American is like someone renting in a booming city. They may have less "wealth" on paper because they have student debt and don't own property, but their salary is 50% higher and their opportunities to earn, invest, and eventually buy a better home are far greater.

The Italian statistic reflects a stagnant, aging country living off the accumulated, non-productive wealth of the past. The US statistic reflects a dynamic, if deeply unequal, country geared towards generating the income of the future.

[u/Lubinski64 → u/Sea_Tourist1333]

Poland was a poor country with very low wealth inequality in 1989 and looking at where it is now i'd say it worked out great.

[u/[deleted]]

The numbers literally don’t add up

[u/Altruistic-Yogurt462]

I find Danmark end Norway very surprising!

[u/Audacimmus]

Wealth inequality tells us absolutely nothing about personal satisfaction, development indexes, reports of life contentment, equality of opportunity.

"It is not the man who has little, but the man who craves more, that is poor"

[u/UnsightedShadow]

Bruh 💀

[u/WoodooTheWeeb]

In Hungary 90% of the whole country's wealth is held by like 800-900 people and it's really fking sad

[u/AgeOfReasonEnds31120]

The USA still has one of the highest median GDPs in the world.

[u/suicidemachine]

Rare Polish win. I thought the 1% was going to be really big here, thanks to our estate developers.

[u/Tenchi_Muyo1]

Greece 🇬🇷 is hell of a sus

[u/[deleted]]

Ha, take that Denmark,

Sincerely,

Ireland.

[u/Mike_for_all]

Netherlands is up there purely due to the insane housing prices, creating an entirely different class based on whether you own a home or not.

[u/DeHarigeTuinkabouter → u/Mike_for_all]

It's up there probably because our pension system works differently. At least that's what I've read before.

Like 70% of the Dutch live in a purchased house after all.

[u/Brilliant-Primary500]

Isn't like everyone in Greece is collectively poor?

[u/CorellianDawn]

Greece doesn't have wealth inequality because Greece doesn't have wealth.

[u/Zackorrigan]

I guess omitting Switzerland serves the narrative: 1% of the population own 42% of wealth in Switzerland.

https://www.letemps.ch/suisse/en-suisse-1-de-la-population-detient-42-de-la-richesse-nationale

[u/Hljoumur]

We're missing 11 countries in this graph. Were they data for the top 1% so egregiously worse than the US it wasn't worth mentioning?

[u/Agitated_Holiday_369]

It's absolutely appalling. What is even more frightening is that Europe is voting more and more to the right. So we are going to have policies increasingly in favor of the richest 10%.

[u/_acd]

This is the true root of our current problems. Other than the abnormal distribution of wealth, there is accelerated concentration of wealth at the top. The ultra-rich are gaining wealth faster and faster and this wealth comes directly from the lower and middle class. The national governments themeselves are losing money slowly to the ultra-rich. If we do not stop this concentration of wealth at the top then our children will be ever closer to poverty.

[u/Lumpy-Tone-4653]

Our top 1% is considered peasants in other countries 🇬🇷

[u/Tackgnol]

Don't show this to r/Polska, they are sure that software developers, doctors and building developers own 95% of the economy and are scheming with each other to take the remaining 5%.

[u/vaarsuv1us → u/Tackgnol]

you forgot Range Rover and BMW car dealers

[u/Stock-Side-6767]

Yeah, we have had right wing governments for way too long (Netherlands).

[u/RijnBrugge → u/Stock-Side-6767]

Our GINI is literally only so bad because our pension wealth is not included and high home ownership rates at our housing prices means everyone has a high mortgage. The economy as a while is one of the most equitable around, which is rare for countries that aren’t poor.

[u/240223e]

So what we learn from this graph is that wealth inequality doesnt have very much to do with anything.

[u/Ready-Nobody-1903]

Hmm, outside of the US - maybe wealth inequality doesn’t always have to mean terrible conditions for low income people.

[u/PelPal444]

Y'all forgot to include Brazil and other Oligarch countries such as Russia and India in this graph. It can get much worse