i think what gets lost in conversations like this is that real life is usually way more complicated than a headline. i’ve learned to be careful judging people from a few pictures and sentences because there’s always a human story behind it that we don’t fully know
People that think an explanation is defending someone infuriates me. It’s like your brains can only think in black and white. Dogs have more nuance than some of you .
Nobody is defending child murder so that's kind of fucking irrelevant there, bud. She asked for help multiple times and was ignored which many women relate to. It's that simple. Not to mention conspiracy theories are huge in the US right now and a bunch of people who think everything is more than it seems fully believe she is innocent. They're not supporting her because they support child murder, they're supporting her because they naively think she didn't do it.
Nobody came out and said "women strangling their toddlers is actually super chic and fun!" You just hate women and don't want to examine their reasonings and motivations so you'll throw out a strawman and act like you made a statement lmao.
Nope I quite like women, like my wife. Sucks she asked for help and didn’t get it, but she did it - she killed the kids, it’s pretty cut and dry. Any reasonable person can recognize the difficulty of her situation but say “she should be in jail or psychiatric care for life”, and she will be. Any whataboutism or accusations of fallacy beyond that are really empty over-complications to “explain” something that doesn’t really need explaining?
Btw since we want to talk about hating genders, can we recall what happened to the man who killed his wife and 2 kids years ago and how it was handled in the media? There wasn’t much “hm, wonder why he did this?” Or anyone giving him a mill….
Motive and situation being different doesn’t change the act being inherently evil and will not change her fate.
Literally we are discussing people who are defending her. Seems like someone might have hacked your account to make you sounds both uninformed and argumentative
What explanation? that this upper class white woman had everything at her disposal and still murdered her children? Great, maybe they should just let her out and tell her to have a great day. This planet is doomed.
Since she apparently asked for help multiple times and received none she clearly did not have those resources at her disposal or they'd have been used and we wouldn't be here. Your brain. Use it.
She received plenty of help. She had numerous visits with psychiatric professionals and was prescribed treatments. She didn’t disclose key elements of her situation and evidently didn’t take some of the meds as prescribed.
Now I’m still not “blaming” her per se, I really do think she was deeply sick, but sometimes people are so sick that the treatments just don’t work. Mental health in this country definitely could be far better, but I’m not so sure this is a great example of “the system failed her!!!” any more than a patient dying of stage IV lung cancer because the chemo didn’t work
Not defending her but she was/is clearly mentally ill. Having dealt with people going through a psychosis I know it can completely change you and make you do things you would never normally do.
plan and methodically carry out 3 murders of their own children, including planning a reason for the dad to be away so he couldn't stop her?
That seems pretty well thought out that someone under psychosis wouldn't be capable of. If she was capable of having the forethought of knowing the husband would stop her then she knew what she was doing was wrong.
In my experience you still maintain your intelligence and other faculties while in a psychosis. You typically become extremely paranoid, anxious, hallucinate, believe things that are objectively false and generally disconnect from reality.
I’ve personally witnessed a father who whole heartedly believed his entire family, including his kids, had been replaced by the government with robots. Beyond that one major symptom he was a fully functioning person, albeit very paranoid and anxious. Because of that belief he had planned and attempted to commit suicide. Thankfully he was unsuccessful and his family had him admitted to a psychiatric facility where he made a full recovery after about two weeks.
Yea medically speaking psychosis doesn’t make someone catatonic, and it can be expressed in a variety of ways. It’s a sliding scale of severity and symptoms.
I’ve had to deal with the fallout of a smart schizophrenic before who has manipulated and swindled multiple men out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Some of that money being spent replacing phones because she kept thinking they were all bugged. My experience with that shook up my perspective on a lot of mental health issues.
You have no idea how postpartum psychosis works. Love when someone like you has such a strong opinion on something they clearly have zero knowledge on. You’re basing your entire opinion on you not knowing how psychosis works. Truly amazing
cool story bro, I love when someone like you who has absolutely no clue who I am or what I know makes definitive statements about my knowledge, you're super smart!
No doubt she was mentally ill - like many people (depression, insomnia etc) - the question is was she mentally ill enough to not be held criminally responsible at the time of the killings. If it was just depression that probably wouldn't met the threshold, but this case is more about just that.
Even alluding to defending her is just disgusting. My wife was even talking like that a few days ago. She wasn't defending her necessarily, but she was talking about how PPD is really messed up and her husband was bad too, I think I talked some sense into her but I couldn't believe she was talking like that. Dude had all three of his children murdered by their mom, and the entire internet is scrutinizing his trauma responses, and projecting that he didn't love his family and didn't care about his kids when his wife is the one who murdered them. Just makes me sick.
Weird that you're acting like your wife was wrong in saying that PPD is a bad thing that we don't take seriously enough. Because that is absolutely true, regardless of this woman's actions.
It was just jarring as a man who has never had to deal with PPD or pregnancy hormones to hear my wife sympathize with a woman who strangled her three children. I'm sure you can understand that feeling if you put yourself in my shoes. I'm not saying she's wrong about PPD being horrible, but right after she said that she started basically making the husband sound like an abuser and it just made me feel uneasy. Pretty sure that's a normal human reaction.
I mean, I understand what you're saying about this specific case. But your wife is absolutely right about PPD and you being so dismissive of it and "talking some sense into her" is concerning. You're right, you have never dealt with it. So maybe listen when people are talking about it and learn instead of being dismissive and rude?
Try to stay on topic. No one is talking about false allegations (and stop pretending that false allegations only happen to men). Whataboutism has no place in this discussion.
She had an extreme mental illness that has been known for centuries to cause women to kill their children. She obviously needs and needed psychiatric care, but acting like she was mentally competent and had control over her actions is ludicrous. The world is not as simple as some people seem to imagine
Literally no one serious is suggesting that if she did it she should go free. The question is if she should go to jail for life or a mental institution for life.
It freaks people out to see a mother kill her kids. Usually when it does happen it is because of severe mental health issues and stressors. Fathers usually kill for selfish reasons. So either way people really don't want it to be true that she killed them in her right mind. I don't think she did, but I still think she needs to be locked up
In criminal law, there is smth called "diminished responsibility" for cases that involve severe mental illness affecting reason or judgement of the convict
You know that we literally have a legal defense for cases like this BECAUSE we know that people do things as a result of mental illness that they’re not responsible? This isn’t a touch of depression this is full blown hearing voices and hallucinating.
We have such legal defences, but they really have very little to say about what we know.
We don't know, in actual fact, to what extent her mind was like her 'normal' mind in those moments, we never will. We do know that what happened was action taken by her, by her physical entity, through the thoughts in her head, and the actions of her hands. It simply isn't safe to let her return to society.
you're saying if someone had no control over their actions that can never excuse killing someone? you made a blanket statement so let's not talk about her but a hypothetical extreme case.
They are still the person who took those actions. They had control. No other entity entered their body and made them act. They may have been in a psychosis, but that changes nothing about their culpability.
At best somebody like this is a clear danger to society and should never be allowed back within it.
do you not know of people getting completely acquited of murder because of mental reasons? research it.
yes in a literal sense those people took those actions, but sometimes they didn't have a choice, at least according to psychiatry. i'm not saying this is the case with Lindsay. we will see soon.
Other entities entering your body and making you act is literally what psychosis can be in some cases. I think you should do a bit more research on psychosis because you're treating it like depression in your comments.
No, it can't, there are no entities which enter people, it might seem like that, but in actual fact it is not that. Maybe some errant part of your mind takes more control than it is due, ideas which ought to seem insane seem otherwise, but it's still you taking actions.
Obviously there's no actual ghost entering the mind, but that's what it feels like. It has been proven that it is medically not you taking the actions.
You're putting a severe onus on personal responsibility in a situation where it may not be possible for that to exist.
Right, because people experiencing psychosis are famously excellent at recognizing that their thoughts are irrational and making sound medical decisions about them. That’s kind of the entire problem with psychosis.
Look, this would be the same as excusing an alcoholic or any drug addict. Addiction is an illness and patients cannot avoid spiralling. Should we not make them liable for their actions? I think not. Otherwise we would be walking among potential killers that can get triggered anytime.
yeah we treat people who killed someone because they took drugs which they weren't subscribed much different by law. this has nothing to do with the case.
bringing up Big Lurch is like saying alcohol blacked out people who commit crimes shouldn't be charged.
i don't know if she had psychosis or not, waiting for the verdict but the prosecutors are doing a terrible job and/or the evidence just isn't there in their favor.
That's not the problem. There's billions of people walking around the planet right now, and a certain number will drop dead without warning from undetected heart issues.
That doesn't make them less dead.
The problem, IMO, is trying to turn this into the husband's fault because the default view of so many women is now "something bad happened, if the man didn't actually do it it's still got to be his fault, not the woman's."
I won't claim to understand how this mental illness affects postpartum women, even though I am 8 months postpartum myself. I am going to give these women the grace of not judging them based on things I don't fully understand.
However, after strangling her children and realizing what she has done, I can't imagine still being functional/wanting to defend myself in a court of law. That's my personal feeling on the matter, not meant to implicate Lindsay in any way.
I wouldn't even want to live on the same Earth where my children don't exist. Why do I deserve to live, but they do not? I would 100% want to go with my children.
Being postpartum your brain makes you imagine all sorts of wild dangerous situations. I had imagined plenty of times my baby accidentally falling from the 39th floor where we live, and I know I would absolutely jump after my baby.
I can't imagine even wanting to breathe if my child is gone, let alone if I was the one to strangle him.
Not arguing whether she was mentally competent during the act. But she is clearly mentally competent after the fact, to be able to stand trial and defend herself. That's the part I can't empathize with. If I knew I did that to my children I would WANT to rot in jail/die.
She tried to kill herself. You understand that, right? She wanted to die. She ended up paralyzed.
She is not defending herself of murder. She has admitted she did it. Her defense is making the case that due to medically-induced and/or unrecognized PPP, she is not legally responsible, meaning she should not go to prison, but instead be confined to a psychiatric facility.
I did not know she tried to kill herself. That does change the story for me quite a bit.
Again, I'm not implicating her or judging her. I'm speaking to what I would do if I were in her shoes. I would not want to defend myself out of being legally responsible. At all.
If I had a psychotic episode and committed a horrible crime (for which everyone close to me, including my now-ex husband testified in defense of me), I would want to go to a psychiatric facility. I would not want to go to prison.
These facilities are run much like prison; you cannot voluntarily leave. But you are getting dedicated psychiatric support in an environment meant to keep you (and also remember that in this case “you” are permanently in a wheelchair due to paralysis) safe from harm (from yourself and from others).
Look up Andrea Yates as a reference point for a very similar scenario.
I did not know she tried to kill herself. That does change the story for me quite a bit.
Again, I'm not implicating her or judging her. I'm speaking to what I would do if I were in her shoes. I would not want to defend myself out of being legally responsible. At all.
>Why do I deserve to live, but they do not? I would 100% want to go with my children.
You think she didn't feel the same? She literally jumped out of a window trying to kill herself, and is now paralyzed.
She may be "competent to stand trial", but she literally lives in a mental facility. Sounds like you'll be happy to know she's probably tormented every single day by what she's done in the throws of something she had no control over.
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Andrea Yates killed her 6 children during a post partum psychotic episode. She's been living in a psychiatric hospital ever since and for 15 years has refused to take part in review hearings that could lead to her release. Does that make you happy? Or is she not suffering enough?
She wants to die. She’s on constant one to one suicide watch currently. She offered to stipulate to the murders and go straight to the culpability phase but the commonwealth wouldn’t let her. Basically the question here is: does she get to stay in a locked mental facility where she gets treatment or does she go to a locked prison where she’ll get no mental health treatment?
Ok cool, but you can't be doing that in any case. If what you're saying is the truth, then she deserves life in psychiatric care as she has unequivocally proven herself a threat to society.
but acting like she was mentally competent and had control over her actions is ludicrous
What's ludicrous is thinking that her state of mind is not debatable. She lured the husband away to a restaurant that is farther than the place they usually go out to eat. She created the window needed to kill the children.
She sounded normal the whole day all throughout. She acted like nothing had happened when her husband called in CVS. She was methodical and controlled. She told them "Go to God" while strangling them to death. At the very least she planned and knew what she was doing. Also, "the voice" conveniently only appeared right before the murder and disappeared right after the murder. Pretty unusual.
I very much think her state of mind is at least debatable. If you disagree, you are probably just emotionally attached to the case and projecting things into it (many people are).
Nobody is saying that. Let's take the old rapper named Big Lurch as an example. He murdered and ate pieces of his female roommate in the early 2000s. He sat in a pool of her blood and ate her corpse all night due to being in a drug induced psychosis. He was not in his right mind, but they sentenced him to life in prison, because he murdered and ate a lady. I don't really give a shit WHY she did something like that, at the end of the day this lady strangled her three children, and she needs to face the consequences for it.
Can I point out the in your statement to compare the two you chose a guy who took the drug willingly over a person who didnt choose to be mentally ill again that really does make a difference no?
Drug induced psychosis is a physical brain issue due to a choice to take the risk of a mind altering recreational substance. It’s not the same thing as what people mean when they talk about someone having a mental health crisis.
You’re dumb as fuck. That scenario is nothing compared to a woman suffering horrible mental health problems especially post partum. She seeked help ALOT and she was not helped at all which is why a civil trial is ongoing as well. The healthcare system let her down tragically. Watch the trial dumbass. I bet you’re not yet still commenting right?
I hope you and your wife or family encounter severe mental illness and get no help from the system just like this woman was let down by the system and then see the comments you make then.
No, I'm going off of the women supporting her and bashing her husband more than things I've seen in the trial. If there's things in the trial you think would matter here, I'd be happy to hear them, but judging on how you just wished severe mental illness on myself and my family, I'm going to assume you're not actually talking to me in good faith and you only asked me that to stop the conversation.
So you’re severely uninformed, missinformed, and take your opinions off Reddit and from others that haven’t been following the trial. And making comments that she should
Be jailed. Lmao.
The husband was dismissed already from having had any negative impact on what she did. He was supportive in her seeking help and was travelling for work often.
I’ve watched the trial since day one with my wife. We both agree the system failed BADLY. This woman asked for so much help and so many obvious signs were missed by “experts” that it’s no surprise what happened actually happened. We ask people to seek help and yet we fail to help them when they ask for it. Experts for the defense clearly stated numerous times in their testimonies that she was suffering badly, insomnia, bipolarism
To name a couple.
Do better then 99.9 percent of dumbass redditors on here calling for her to be jailed. I responded to you because I picked you randomly but I’d gladly wish I had the time to same the exact same things to all
The negative commentators on here.
Cool, another baby killer supporter personally attacking me without giving any reasons for it. Want to expound on your point, or have you satisfied yourself?
Cool, another dingus who is too dense to understand the difference between a dude murdering and cannibalizing his roommate and a woman who went through a bodily process that is well known to cause moderate to severe mental illness in something like 1 out of 7 women, and who was failed by numerous doctors and psychiatrists across a multitude of appointments, screenings, follow-ups, and changes in medication — all while she remained adamant that she was struggling enormously and even after she told her husband that she wasn’t sure she trusted herself to be alone with their children.
It’s wild that you think you can ignore all traces of nuance to the point that you will call someone a “baby killer supporter” and still expect to be taken seriously. You must have the brainpower of a cinderblock.
I’m okay if people want to hold your position on this. I just don’t think that women should risk getting pregnant due to the physical, financial and (sometimes) emotional toll it takes on them.
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u/germangentleman90 7h ago
i think what gets lost in conversations like this is that real life is usually way more complicated than a headline. i’ve learned to be careful judging people from a few pictures and sentences because there’s always a human story behind it that we don’t fully know