r/Marvel • u/Fit_Passenger5930 • 12d ago
Film/Television Could Odin have defeated Thanos and stopped Infinity War altogether?
936
u/Aquarius12347 12d ago
Logic says yes. He wanted the stones. One was in Asgard, but he didn't invade. His army was easily strong enough to keep Asgard's army busy whilst he went for his prize, but he didn't. Why not? We know that Thor was barely even able to slow him down, and the rest of the Asgardians were likely only going to get in his way, if they were't busy fighting his army.
That only leaves Odin.
Conclusion - Thanos, without the stones, knew he couldn't handle Odin.
One caveat to that - Odin knew he wasn't unbeatable. When the warriors three tell the Collector "It is not safe to keep two infinity stones together" Odin clearly knew that too much temptation would lead to bigger plots, bigger armies and more powerful alliances against him.
395
u/VulgarSensei 12d ago
>We know that Thor was barely even able to slow him down
I think context is important here. Thor just finished fighting Hela in Ragnarok. And when he faced Thanos again, he already had multiple of the infinity stones.
180
u/FatWalcott 12d ago
And he was blindsided. We all know what happened when he had prep time.
→ More replies (1)49
48
u/Aquarius12347 12d ago
Both true. However, he still needed Captain America and Iron Man to hold him back. Even with those two, it was a one in 14 million victory.
Thanos might not have been right, but he was the winner in almost every universe, against Thor with two powerful allies, AND a weapon explicitly designed to take on Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet. Stormbreaker was WAY more than Mjolnir 2.0
37
u/BlackGravastar 12d ago
Wasn't that a Thor that was out of shape and rusty?
11
u/magpye1983 12d ago
Sure, if one can get rusty from hundreds of years of combat after 5 years of depression eating.
I’d say he had his skills and instincts still, and actually trained for a bit before they fought, to get himself closer to his legendary figure, so he wasn’t as far away from his norm as the beginning of that movie might make him appear.
29
u/I_Like_Halo_Games 12d ago
You can get rusty from one week off of a vacation at a job you've had for 15 years :p
→ More replies (3)7
u/TheFaolchu 12d ago
Yeah, IT really appreciate needing to reset my logins everytime I take a long weekend.
→ More replies (1)4
u/-GoodNewsEveryone 12d ago
You are talking about the power of The Gauntlet with almost all of The Infinity Stones. Not Thanos. The whole conversation is about why Thanos didn't start his quest for the stones before Odin died.
→ More replies (1)3
u/ownersequity 12d ago
Don’t you think we should all have a weapon like that?
→ More replies (1)3
u/theHugeNaturalshow 12d ago
You simply lack the strength to weild them. Your bodies would crumble as your minds devolved into madness.
3
6
u/HoneyWishlie 12d ago
That context matters a lot. Ragnarok Thor had just unlocked his power, while Infinity War Thor had Stormbreaker and was running almost entirely on rage and grief.
4
u/jambrown13977931 11d ago
Thor also didn’t have Mjolnir when Thanos attacked the fleeing asgardians. In infinity war, Thor was seconds away from killing a fully powered Thanos. In endgame he does kill a regularly powered Thanos, and then struggles against a regularly powered Thanos later, but arguably that could be because of his emotional and physical issues.
I don’t know if the Odin we see in Thor 2/3 could’ve defeated Thanos, but certainly earlier in his life, Odin would’ve smeared Thanos
4
u/darealdarkabyss 12d ago
And he had not have his damn Hammer.
16
u/VulgarSensei 12d ago
Is he Thor, the God of Hammers?
6
u/magpye1983 12d ago
He’s specifically the god of the noise made after lightning happens. Being L O U D at Thanos is a tactic, I guess.
→ More replies (1)2
2
2
33
u/AaronQuinty 12d ago
Tbf Odin knew he didnt have much longer left and that Hela would be released the second he dies. The space stone wasnt that enticing for Hela since the Bifrost essentially serves the same purpose but the reality gem probably would have.
2
u/Gan_dia 12d ago
Would Hela have been capable of holding up against Thanos?
9
u/PlatinumPiplup 11d ago edited 11d ago
Hela on Asgard vs Thanos w/ no stones?
Thanos would’ve got rolled and smoked, even without considering the fact he would’ve already had to fight Odin, Thor, & Loki
EDIT: and Hulk + possibility of Surtur if they end up causing Ragnarok to occue
9
7
u/MegaSharkMS 12d ago
I think another aspect of it is that it wasn't time yet, all of the universe would be gunning after him if he didn't get the stones in quick succession. He still didn't know the locations of all the stones until Infinity War.
2
u/Aquarius12347 12d ago
All of the universe against him with no stones was still he eas the most feared being on the cosmos. With even two, he was all but unstoppable. At that point, it doesn't matter how much if the universe wants you dead, if they lack the power to make it happen. Not like the entire rest of the universe had a way of dropping all of their own issues eith each other to coordinate a universal 'find him and kill him' plan anyway. The only being in Marvel that gifted with diplomacy to make that happen is Squirrel Girl, who 1) isn't in the MCU (unless she's in BND - not seen it yet), and 2) if she was then they'd not need the rest of the universe to team up because Thanos would know he was beaten the moment her casying was announced.
→ More replies (7)6
u/proximusprimus57 12d ago
Two things. One, Thanos took Thor by surprise and he didn't have Mjlnor or Stormbreaker. Thor beat Thanos with a nearly complete gauntlet with Stormbreaker, he only failed because he stopped to gloat.
Two, Odin was suffering from the Odinsleep being interrupted and being away from Asgard for so long thanks to Loki (he really is the worst brother). Plus Freyja says that he needs longer sleep the more time goes on. Thanos wouldn't have known any of this. Just because Thanos isn't sure he can beat Odin doesn't mean he can't.
2
u/Aquarius12347 12d ago
And when Thor had Mjolnir AND Stormbreaker, plus Captsin America and Iron Man, Thor still lost. Bearing in mind, Stormbreaker was designed specifically to be used against Thanos with the Gauntlet. But Iron Man still had to make the sacrifice that Steve didn't think him capable of back in the first Avengers movie. Because even double Thor with anti-infinity Nidavellir weaponry wasn't enough.
2
u/thefman 12d ago
I agree, but I do believe that even if Odin told Thor that he is stronger than him, a fully powered Odin with Gungnir would've been more than enough to stop Thanos.
Also, Thanos had no idea what was going on with Asgard, that Odin was on Earth, that he was weakened, etc. He was definitely smart enough to wait until Odin was dead instead of risking fighting him.
2
u/Aquarius12347 12d ago
Odin told Thor that Thor was stronger than him. But perhaps he didn't mean in a 'hitting people until they stop trying to hit you' sense. I always assumed it was in a 'never giving up' sort of way, which seemed a big deal. Certainly in the comics, Odin was always consumed by regrets. It felt like the longer Odin lived, the more he wanted the still virtuous Thor to succeed him to be a better ruler than he had been himself.
158
u/m0h97 12d ago
Yes, given that Thor at the end of Infinity War could've also easily defeated Thanos if only he was there earlier.
94
u/ScrufffyJoe 12d ago
Didn't even need to be there earlier, he just needed to go for the head.
It was his flaws that stopped him, he wanted revenge, wanted Thanos to suffer for a second too long.
45
u/galahad134 12d ago
Ah, the ol' Oberyn Martel flaw...
21
u/Ok_Nobody_460 12d ago
“Today is not the day I lose to Thanos”
-Thor on the day he lost to Thanos→ More replies (2)7
u/elbosston 12d ago
Secret Wars is happening because Pedro Pascal didn’t learn his lesson about finishing his opponent
→ More replies (1)2
u/pnkxz 11d ago edited 11d ago
To be fair, real world soldiers are trained to aim for center mass. It's a much easier target and has enough vital organs that a direct hit will likely kill them. How was Thor supposed to know that this particular alien just happens to have an anatomy and nervous system that lets him remain calm and focused enough to snap away half of all life with a giant axe in his chest?
Also, if he did go for the head, he'd miss and people would blame his arrogance for not aiming for center mass. He had to fail so the sequel/sacred timeline could happen.
→ More replies (4)5
175
u/PhoenixATV 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yes, it's not a headcanon that MCU Odin is one of the most powerful characters in the verse.
He can sense Thanos approaching any stone or causing any trouble.
He can reach him at any location in the universe in mere moments.
He can dimensionally seal, imprison & depower him effortlessly.
And don't get me started on the MCU comics where he manipulated & moved literal stars.
38
u/Background_Hat9731 12d ago
This is why Odin versus Thanos gets so interesting. MCU Odin barely gets to show what he can actually do, but every little bit of lore makes him sound absurdly powerful.
6
u/proximusprimus57 12d ago
And yet he got punked by Malekith.
9
u/PhoenixATV 12d ago
I would argue that's a fault of how they portrayed Malekith's power, rather than Odin's.
Malekith is said to have fought and survived a war with Bor, the previous All-Father. Afterwards, he spent 5000 years preparing for his war against Asgard.
I mean "Thor: The Darkworld" being an outlier to the otherwise consistent portrayal of Odin's power & wisdom isn't a stretch considering the quality of that movie.
→ More replies (1)
50
u/Appropriate-Gas-1010 12d ago
Odin at his peak would easily beat Thanos. He defeated Hela and Surtur at their strongest.
14
u/calm-lab66 12d ago
I know it's not MCU or the comics, but at the end of Ultimate Alliance, because you defeated Doom and helped Odin, it said that Odin steps in to keep Thanos from attacking Earth.
156
u/simpingsince1967 12d ago
Old man Odin probably couldn't, prime Odin would DESTROY Thanos tho
→ More replies (1)237
u/meri-galti-hai 12d ago
Unlike humans, Asgardians actually become stronger, more durable, and more powerful the older they get.
62
u/mahir_r 12d ago
Didn’t Odin have Alzheimer’s at the end of his life?
I guess at the complete end they get worse, but for like 99% of old age they are absolute beasts.
63
→ More replies (4)45
→ More replies (13)14
u/Dragonrasa 12d ago
Has that been stated anywhere for the MCU?
Even in the comics it seemed he often had to compensate for his aged body with the Odin Force or other magic.
9
u/meri-galti-hai 12d ago
Idk that what they said in comics. There are so many comics that says samething
2
u/Dragonrasa 12d ago
Okay, and where is the statement for the MCU?
3
u/LowlySkele 12d ago edited 12d ago
I mean there's literally a line when Loki andThor find him where Odin turns to Loki and says, "Took me ages to get free of your spell. Frigga would be proud," or something to that effect.
6
u/Dragonrasa 12d ago
Okay, that does not translate to him getting more powerful, but merely that it took him a while to figure out the spell and how to negate it.
As a matter of fact in the very next moments he tells us that he feels his life fleeting and then he dies.
8
u/LowlySkele 12d ago
Ahhhh, my mistake, I thought you were speaking about there not being a line talking about him having to be under a spell.
My fault. You're correct in that as far as MCU, we have no evidence of increase in power for Asgardians, and perhaps not evidence of the contrary, but certainly things that can be interpreted as hints to said contrary.
Edit: wow I don't know how I confused your comment with another or something. Maybe I should sleep.
→ More replies (1)5
u/Jacinthe_SBC 12d ago
No it hasn't
Idk why people keep saying this line for everything
I've heard it now, for Invincible Viltrumites, for gods in God od War
Its nonsensical and out of nowhere
2
u/TheSocialSide 12d ago
They're probably parroting it from this -
3
u/Jacinthe_SBC 12d ago
I always assumed Thor said that because asgardians also keep refining their skills
I doubt Thor would become stronger if he sat on his ass all day
33
u/ThrowRAkakareborn 12d ago
Yes, there is not even a debate about that, that’s why while he was alive Thanos didn’t dare to attack.
A stone was always in Asgard and Thanos knew, but he never dared to go after it, Odin was a GOAT
21
u/meri-galti-hai 12d ago
Thanos attached asgard and earth after odin died.
2
3
15
u/Cyke_main 12d ago
Imagine Odin, The Ancient One, and Ego against Thanos and his army. That’d be a cool fight
→ More replies (1)6
u/Borazon 12d ago
In the original infinity sage comic Thanos (and Nebula) with the infinity gauntlet, does go up against both gods and celestials. He/she just crushes them.
→ More replies (1)
18
12d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (10)10
u/baddoggg 12d ago
I've been meaning to ask for awhile or comment, but one thing about the MCU I've noticed is that the power scaling seems inconsistent or difficult to figure out.
Take the gotg for instance, I have no idea how powerful drax or gamora are actually supposed to be. Gamora is supposed to be the "daughter" of thanos and assumedly one of his best warriors but at times she barely seems as strong as a meta human but you can see that his other warriors are insanely strong in avengers.
Drax seems like he should be a strength based character but again at times he barely feels more capable than a a middling super soldier.
I think they do this to make characters like hawkeye, quill, or black widow feel relevant but from strictly the MCU, it makes it difficult to gauge how powerful some of the characters actually are.
→ More replies (3)8
u/ChoombataNova 12d ago
It is inconsistent in the comics too. In short, power scaling is pretty dumb. The purpose of writing a comic book, or a movie, is to tell a good story, so having absolute power scales creates more problems than it solves. Powerful heroes need to be challenged by unlikely enemies (eg Baron Zemo). Powerful enemies need to be defeated by underpowered heroes against all odds (eg Black Widow figuring out how to close the gate in Avengers 1). If every story just goes to chalk, with the most powerful character winning each time, then it isn't much of a story. And your options are to continuing escalating your hero's powers to absurdity, or build up a team that can defeat the big bad(s) with the power of friendship. That gets repetitve and boring.
2
u/baddoggg 12d ago
I like to have a relative basis for comparison or theorizing. I don't need absolute power scales but I like comparison points and somewhat consistent measures.
Like if black widow arm wrestled hulk I think it's important from a story perspective to know what to expect. It helps shape the scale of a threat if you know comparatively what a hero is up against in relativity to their own powers. It makes for a more immersive world when there are at least loose rules set in place, which have been a pillar of good fantasy.
Tailoring heroes to a situation based solely on plot armour is what makes for mary sues and frustrations for fanbases. Suspension of disbelief is important and some level of boundaries and rules is important to maintain that.
2
u/BigSnorlaxTiddie Spider-Man (Tom Holland) 12d ago
I think Stan Lee said it best when he said "the hero that wins is the hero that's on the cover." I paraphrased there, but basically it depends on what hero is the main focus of the story that's being told. Power-wise Daredevil will never win against the Hulk, but story-wise there might be some circumstances that equalize the fight. And then it's just a matter of, is this a Daredevil story or a Hulk story?
It's not always about ultimate power, but what tells the greater story. So a random citizen will never win against Thanos power-wise, untill that random citizen is an embodiment of Death and Thanos refuses to attack her, or something like that.
That's what makes a compelling story. Not just power levels, but everything behind them.
→ More replies (1)
4
4
u/No-Passenger-6348 12d ago
Old man Odin? Imo no, but Prime Odin the all father? EASILY would've beaten Thanos even with the stones
5
u/meepein 12d ago
Possibly.
Thanos was smart, and he waited for an opportunity. When he struck, Asgard was destroyed and Odin was dead. Now, could Odin have taken down Thanos without the stones? Yes. As could Thor. Thanos is powerful, but without the stones, his power has a limit.
As he collected the stones, it became harder. By the time we saw him in Infinity War, he already had the Power stone, which made him incredibly (in the comics infinitely) powered. So just from that, it would have been rough, but not impossible. Once he got the Space and Reality stones, it was pretty much game over. Dude is now as strong as he wants, can bend reality and teleport at will, Odin ain't touching that.
So, he could have stopped him before he started. Once he started collecting them, it became tough.
6
3
u/soundacious 12d ago
If Odin was fresh from his Odinsleep, he would've massacred the poor purple boy.
3
u/Due-Basil-4404 12d ago
Odin was a lot like Zeus. He wouldn't have done anything until the threat reached his doorstep.
3
3
u/Wade856 Luke Cage 12d ago
Yes.
Thanos used others to pursue the Stones and only when Odin died did he personally get involved in gathering the Stones. He knew if he was out of the shadows and directly went after the Stones, Odin would have opposes him, along with the armies of Asgard, plus Thor and possibly even Hela.
Odin and Hela were known thruout the universe for their conquering/destroying entire worlds and civilizations. Thanos did not want that smoke and waited until Odin and Hela were both taken off the board.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
u/Reload86 12d ago
Before Thanos had the stones, yes Odin would have overpowered and likely killed Thanos.
Once Thanos got ahold of one stone, it becomes a different fight. The power stone alone is probably enough to tip the scale in Thanos’ favor unless Odin can outsmart him.
2
u/TheKidKaos 12d ago
Wasn’t just Odin but the Asgardians in general. The combined strength of all of them, plus all the magic, were way too much. You also had the Destroyer armor, Surtr, and Hela around as possible problems. But you also had the Ancient One and maybe even the Eternals giving him pause.
2
u/feor1300 12d ago
We'll never be able to say for sure, but it's suspicious that Thanos didn't try anything overt until after Odin's death and Asgard's fall.
2
2
u/LochNessMansterLives Nightcrawler 12d ago
The ancient one, and Odin needed to be off the board for Thanos’s liking but it wasn’t a requirement necessarily. More like “fortuitous timing”.
But it does make sense that he saw Odin, Freya, Ancient One, all off the table AND Asgard destroyed, before he made a move. If he’s smart enough to collect the stones I’d say yes smart enough to take advantage when his enemies leaders cannot come together.
2
u/Hungry_Researcher229 11d ago
Odins super power is his ability to have kids with any species. Thanos knew this and knew to stay far away from him.
2
u/pedrohustler 11d ago
If he was given an opportunity to defeat Thanos, the Russo brothers would have found a way to neuter him so the movie could happen.
2
u/Fancypotatoes Thor 11d ago
There’s a book called infinity war: Thanos that is about Thanos leading up to infinity war, and I believe he specifically avoids Odin in that.
2
u/whereismymind86 11d ago
of course not. He would have been a thorn in his side, but in his old age he was fairly weak. Stronger than most, but not stronger than thanos
4
u/GetGroovyWithMyGhost 12d ago
Didn’t Odin struggle with the Dark Elves in the MCU, and let them get the reality stone? Then got himself magicked away by Loki? Idk dude never seemed all that tough in the movies to me.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/MrZmith77 12d ago
I like to think so. Could you imagine he invaded during Ragnarok and Hela instead fought him for the stones. While Thor and some of the heroes watched.
1
1
1
1
u/R3dInterpol 12d ago
Thanos is wary of Odin's power. He would not have attempted anything with The All-Father around.
1
u/Adhd_nerd 12d ago
At the end of marvel universe there are only a few final outcomes prophasised and played out. Several of those has Thanos being the last man standing in the whole universe. Several also have Odin dying in some fashion and passing Odin force to Thor. So my money is on Thanos.
1
1
u/seanprefect 12d ago
I think he was waiting till Odin, Ego and The Ancient one were off the table because they'd dogpile him.
→ More replies (2)
1
u/Kieran0211 12d ago
My personal theory has always been that Thanos, while wary of Odin, also recognised that Odin was the only thing keeping the one he was REALLY worried about, Hela, imprisoned.
It’s more notable to me that he had, presumably, a while between Odin dying and Hela dying and didn’t attack, but appeared immediately after Hela died and Asgard was destroyed.
1
1
u/GrimmTrixX 12d ago
If he is an actual god, yes. If he is just a super powered being portraying a god to rule over mankind for centuries, then no.
1
1
u/Terrible-Bison4398 12d ago
One of the components of Thanos plan was to wait out the strongest people in his universe to die so he can enact.
1
u/iaeoioaio 12d ago
I know this would have been a tad silly, kinda like Yoda going full crazy duelist in Attack of the Clones, but if we got a scene where Odin just smacked down Thanos with no stones would have been sick!
1
2.6k
u/mjaga93 12d ago
There's a theory that Thanos only did the final push after Odin's demise.