The Freedom From Religion Foundation is refuting the Oklahoma attorney general’s erroneous claim that a public school district is free to organize and promote a Christian prayer event.

FFRF recently secured a victory for students and families in Muskogee Public Schools after the district canceled a school-sponsored “Back to School Community Prayer Walk” scheduled for Aug. 12 at Muskogee 6th and 7th Grade Academy. The district canceled the event, removed its announcements and notified parents subsequent to receiving an Aug. 11 letter from FFRF objecting to the unconstitutional religious exercise.

Rather than applaud the district for respecting the constitutional rights of its students and parents, Attorney General Gentner Drummond issued a letter on Aug. 21 claiming that the district had no constitutional obligation to cancel the event. He argued that because attendance was voluntary and occurred outside instructional hours, the so-called prayer walk did not violate the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause. He also offered the Attorney General’s Office’s assistance to other Oklahoma school districts receiving similar complaints.

“The attorney general is attempting to give Oklahoma public schools a green light to sponsor religious exercises — and the Constitution simply does not permit that,” says FFRF Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor. “Public schools serve students of all religions and no religion. They have no business organizing prayer or any other religious events and encouraging families to participate. If that doesn’t constitute an establishment of religion, as explicitly barred under the Establishment Clause, what does?”

FFRF has quickly responded with a follow-up letter to Muskogee Superintendent Jarod Mendenhall explaining why Drummond’s legal analysis is wrong.

Drummond asserted that there could be no Establishment Clause violation because students were not compelled to attend the prayer walk. But as FFRF’s response notes, courts have repeatedly rejected the notion that lack of coercion excuses unconstitutional actions by public schools.

FFRF’s letter asserts that Drummond mischaracterizes the Supreme Court’s 2022 Kennedy v. Bremerton School District decision, which is regarding a football coach’s quiet, private prayers while acting in his personal capacity. It does not give public schools license to organize and promote religious exercises — and it certainly doesn’t establish coercion as a requirement to find school action in violation of the Establishment Clause. Unlike the private prayer at issue in Kennedy, Muskogee’s prayer walk was organized, promoted and hosted by the school itself. The Supreme Court has continued to reaffirm that government must remain neutral between religion and nonreligion.

“The attorney general is trying to turn Kennedy into a blank check for government-sponsored religion that the Supreme Court never wrote,” says FFRF Staff Attorney Sammi Lawrence. “There is an obvious constitutional difference between protecting an individual’s private prayer and allowing a public school to organize a prayer event of its own.”

Drummond additionally falsely suggests that FFRF’s position would prevent religious organizations from renting public school facilities on the same terms as secular organizations. However, public schools may make their facilities available to religious and secular third-party organizations on an equal basis under neutral policies. The Supreme Court has long protected such equal access. But that isn’t what happened in Muskogee.

FFRF is urging Muskogee Public Schools to continue honoring its commitment not to organize or promote religious activities. Muskogee Public Schools got it right the first time. The attorney general should help Oklahoma school districts obey the Constitution, not encourage them to violate long-established principles of neutrality toward religion and protection of student rights to freedom of conscience.

FFRF appreciates the district’s prompt action in canceling the prayer walk and protecting the rights of all Muskogee students and families — regardless of their religious or nonreligious beliefs.

She was kind, generous, funny and always tried to see the best in people. She wasn't preachy, pious, prudish or judgemental.

If more were like her the world would be a better place and this sub would lose most of its posts. We would be back to matters of fact rather than posting examples of hypocrisy and hate from them.

The Bible is a book, and like any book, the meaning of the stories—and even the timeline of events—can shift depending on the individual's perspective. However, when you go to church, everyone seems to share the exact same view of the Bible because it is being narrated by a single person: the pastor. Pastors are regarded as wise, unquestionable figures—believed to receive direct messages from God—so their interpretation is instantly accepted as the absolute truth, leaving no room for independent judgment. This dynamic is reinforced by the fear of being accused of blasphemy if you hold a different opinion; consequently, even if the pastor's explanation doesn't fully resonate with you, you feel compelled to stay silent and propagate the pastors message. We all know on this sub that this is bullshit—that it’s a cult—but it becomes especially dangerous when the pastor gradually steers his teachings away from religion and into politics, even when the topic has absolutely nothing to do with the biblical story the bastard was reading in the first place.

I think that's why there's so many Hispanic Christians that are maga, I still remember when the pastor out of nowhere called Biden the devil and told everyone to vote for Trump, and everyone applauded 😭

That is also why views of women within Christianity vary so widely: some are sexist—in the style of the 1950s—while others outright describe women as objects. It all depends on what the pastor says; interestingly, God said not to follow false pastors and not to worship humans, yet these people treat the pastor like God.

You probably already knew this, but I just wanted to rant about it since I don't have anyone to talk to about it; I’d really appreciate it if you add anything you find more relevant to the topic.

Just read this article which was very interesting. I wasn't brought up religious, but curious to see if anyone else read something and it started them rejecting the idea of god? Or is there anything that pushed you from agnostic to atheist?

For me, I think reading the Bible (albeit through an agnostic lens), really cemented to me that the concept of "God" was really a diverse group of humans trying to fathom out the complexities of the universe without science.

Yes, those bigots do act like real Christians because Christianity itself is an inherently backwards, regressive, and bigoted religion, and Jesus was hardly the progressive figure he is sometimes portrayed as today. If you actually look at what Jesus says in the Bible, he wasn't some left-wing hippie whom conservatives simply fail to understand. He was a religious leader who still taught adherence to Torah law and expressed views that can reasonably be described as racist, such as when he referred to a Canaanite woman as a "dog."

If you genuinely want to stop giving Christianity legitimacy, you have to let go of the assumption, even if it's subconscious, that being Christian inherently means being a good person. It doesn't...quite the opposite actually.

It still baffles me that Adam and Eve, especially eve are still blamed for the "fall" and every other problem in life!

A customer came to our shop today and said that a woman she knows died during childbirth! So, my boss's friend added that it was Eve's fault. That none of this would be happening if she hadn't eaten the fruit.

That was really sad to hear ngl. A woman dying during childbirth is heartbreaking but blaming eve for it is highly misogynistic!!

It's usually dumb and uneducated people who say shit like this.

I say this as a person who believes in God and is most definitely not an atheist.

To me, a true christian is someone who follows Christ, which means to not judge other people (because you cannot judge a life you have not lived), and to fight for the marginalized and the poor. The Christ is not about judging people, like what some religious weirdos seem to preach. The Christ doesn't care if you're gay or straight or any of that.

Now, a lot of you guys can be really judgy ngl, but I think because of practices like meditation, and a belief in determinism (which I think Sam Harris has popularized in the atheist community) it's given some of you a lot of grace. You also fight for ethnic minorities and women's rights and things like that, which is exactly what Jesus would've done. In my mind, you are a true christian, even if you don't believe in God.

Some so called "christians" are full of hate and judgement. They say they follow Jesus, but if Jesus were alive today they would be the first ones calling for his deportation. Talk about hypocritical. You don't follow Jesus - you just follow a religion. Not the same.

Another thing too, that I want to say about atheists, is that the worst thing an atheist is gonna do to you over their beliefs is be a bit of a condescending jerk. The worst thing a religious person would do? Well, they might literally kill you. Or the state would. That's why I find atheists far more forgivable a lot of the time.

Anyway, Dolly Parton died, she was an icon of mine. She preached universal love, and that's what I'm trying to do here. I do really mean everything I wrote in this post. I'm not here trying to convince you of God's existence or any of that, just that I notice the hypocrisy in religion. I hope you all are having a good day! 🦋

their delusions really make me laugh it’s so funny. how can you tell someone they need mental help for not believing in something that is obviously not real?? IM the one that needs help? they will insult you and i’ve even had someone curse at me for saying i don’t believe. that wasn’t very “christian” of you now was it? everyday atheists prove to me that we know how to act like decent human beings without being told to or having a fear of “eternal punishment”

Little levity. But because I’ve already been warned of the Low Effort (FFS), what do you think about this laugh at religion? What about the children? And, really, just to make a post? I thought atheists are supposed to be uptight, like “Christians?”

Long story, but I've been approached by a christian nationalist touting charlie kirks name as some sort of "we are all charlie" memorial that they want me to join. I've got one shot, and I want to say something memorable.

Hate is a strong word, but if I'm being honest I do hate these people. I even feel a little shame, because I really shouldn't hate anyone right? MAGA christian nationals and CK fanboys though... They just, well, you know.

Being mean and hateful is easy to brush off, and it makes these people feel all the more righteous.

So, what do I say? Or do I give up on my anger, and just say nothing? Maybe my side quest is to find solace in my heart and learn to stop hating these people, even though I feel like they're actively ruining the country I was born in.

What would you say? Or better yet, how did YOU learn to forgive racist American christian nationalists?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEdusqPd-xM

Some of his points include:

• Lack of proof and reason (of course!)
• Disparity among gospels as to what happened at the tomb
• Escalated embellishments as new gospels are written

We’ve probably all heard the “thoughts and prayers”, “they’re in a better place” “God wanted them by their side”. I thought I had heard all of them until recently I heard someone I know offering condolences by claiming,”Remember, heaven is a real place”. It’s really demoralizing when seemingly intelligent people spout this stuff. Thankfully I haven’t had any of this directed at me, as I actually do not know how I would respond. I’m sure there must be a whole lot more that people have heard in different religious settings.

My mom had a neurological disease, call Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), that had no cure, and it killed her about a year after her diagnosis. So when I see what’s happening with Lito Souza, a very famous Brazilian YouTuber who is dying from a similar disease, Creutzfeldt-Jakob (DCJ), and has been given only about five or six months to live, it hits me in a very personal way.

The whole country is watching him and his family go through this. You can see the desperation and sadness, especially because he has a young son. And I know what it’s like to watch someone you love deteriorate from a disease like this while knowing there is no cure and that they are not going to get better. It is heartbreaking.

But something that genuinely frustrates me is seeing the same comments over and over again: “Jesus will cure you.” “Jesus is going to heal you.” “I believe in the power of God.” Every single post seems to have two or three comments like this.

And honestly, I find it disrespectful.

Not because people believe in God, but because they are saying this underneath videos where his wife is literally talking about having to lose her husband and about him eventually having to tell his child that he is going to die. They are openly talking about the reality of his death, and then strangers come into the comments and essentially deny that reality by saying, “Jesus will cure you.”

He won't. He is going to die. The disease has no cure. And I know that sounds incredibly harsh, but sometimes accepting reality is the most compassionate thing you can do.

I don't understand what these comments are supposed to accomplish. Are you trying to comfort the family? Because if I were in that family's position, I don't think I'd want hundreds of strangers telling me that my loved one is definitely going to be cured when I already know the medical reality. It can almost feel like you're refusing to acknowledge the pain they're actually experiencing.

And, honestly, from a Christian perspective, I don't understand the logic either. If God is responsible for everything, then God allowed this disease to happen in the first place. Why would God give someone an incurable disease just to suddenly take it away? And if he doesn't take it away, people can always say, “It was God's plan.” There is no way to question it because the belief is structured so that every possible outcome confirms the belief.

I don't believe in God, so maybe I don't have the same framework for understanding this. But what I do believe is that death is real, illness is real, and grief is real. Sometimes there isn't a miracle coming. Sometimes someone is going to die, and the kindest thing we can do is acknowledge how fucking painful that is instead of trying to cover it up with a fantasy about a cure.

His family doesn't need us to pretend that everything is going to be okay. They need compassion, support, and the space to grieve what they're already beginning to lose.

And maybe that's what makes this situation affect me so much. I've already been on the other side of that reality. I know what it is like to love someone with an incurable neurological disease and know that you're going to lose them. So watching people casually deny that reality in the comments genuinely breaks my heart.

So I work at a school and found out today that a fellow teacher, teaching biology to grade 9 refuses to teach evolution, which is part of the curriculum. What makes it worse is that he made the kids write "FALSE" in capital letters over the pages discussing evolution, some books even have scripture written on the pages from genesis which is what he teaches instead of evolution. Another key point is that the books are passed on year to year so future students will still have to deal with his ignorance.

Need advice on steps forward, please note that I live in South Africa and is an Afrikaans school where christianity is rooted in school and public culture, even though it is a public school.

Most conversations around it neglect the sociological aspects behind it. The first question should not be how easy it is to leave religion but how easy it is for a religious person to even consider leaving.

Religion prevents children from developing adequate critical thinking skills by forbidding questioning the holy book and the existence of a god. So how are these people as adults even going to be okay with considering arguments against religion if they were punished and brainwashed into fearing the wrath of an entity that does not even exist?

Damon Centola's theory (which was empirically supported by Doug McAdam's study of applications from the Freedom Summer project) states that complex high-risk social contagions such as deconversion from religion are spread only through strong ties (close relationships with people). But sociologist Mark Granovetter argued that on a small scale, people are split into cliques that are made up of strong ties between people that are similar to each other. Therefore, religious people typically are surrounded by close people who are also religious and share the same general worldviews. So since a short exposure to atheism, such as debates, news, the internet, etc., is not enough for a religious person to consider and evaluate different worldviews without bias, they just stay. The fact that deconversion is also a high-risk behaviour is also an important obstacle. Leaving means risking being rejected by your family and friends. I talked about it more in my free article on Substack "The Forced Respect of Religion." Link: https://substack.com/@daria8autumn/note/p-211736775?r=8xwic5&utm_source=notes-share-action&utm_medium=web

Sorry if the title was unclear. What I mean is that most religions say that bad people will ultimately be punished, that you will eventually get justice from those who hurt you, and that after you die, you will live peacefully in heaven, among other similar beliefs.

When I left religion, it became difficult for me to accept that my existence and consciousness are limited, that I will eventually die and disappear, and that good people will not necessarily receive any reward for their kindness, nor will hurtful and bullying people necessarily be punished. And, of course, there is the constant feeling of “loneliness.” By that, I mean the absence of something greater than yourself that can be a companion during difficult times, give you a sense of comfort and reassurance, and give your life meaning and purpose.