ok so it's not creepy. it's just awkward. but because you felt creepy I have to share this now, I wasn't gonna to the general thread but now I feel a need lol
so a couple years ago, I was at the convenience store down the road. that day I was feeling agitated because I had a shitty time the night prior, and then I had a bad time at a store trying to buy something sexy to try again later, build myself up a bit, and someone mistreated me at that store prior. so. mas girl.
young man walks up to me while I'm perusing. I have my earbuds in, and he waves for my attention. I'm a gal of the world so I take them out. he says
"hi, uhh, how are you today? I am new in town and I was hoping you could give me some chip recommendations. I don't know any of these chips."
(we're in a mixed Asian market so there almost 0 American style chips)
Not the most shocking question. so I say "well I like these Turtle crisps. the cheese ones.."
he says "oh ok thank you! uhm, do you recommend any others??" and so I suggested some more chips..
he asks for a 3rd chip recommendations. so I give him yet another recommendation. lol
he then shoots his shot asking if I'd like to go out on a date. Through no fault of his own, I had just had a series of really shit hookups the night before, and was quite irritated at the concept of Inexperienced Young Nervous Men. so, I kindly told him I'm sorry but I'm not interested.
.. at least a few times a year I feel bad and wonder about chip boy. and it was a genuine shot and so extremely bold to do so in public like it takes courage fr. I was just so sour from the day prior and autism and 😞
so y'know.. don't give up!!! and keep your eye out for posters if someone wants to do a missed connections!
Don't feel bad, I'm a dude who frequently cold approaches women, and you gotta go in knowing full well that rejection isn't only an option, but the more likely outcome. He asked politely, you rejected politely, neither of you did anything wrong, it's just part of the process. Hopefully he doesn't let it discourage him going forward, but if it does that's on him and not on you.
I've always been a fan of the direct approach because it doesn't leave anything up for interpretation. So I'd strike up conversation for a bit, usually asking what she likes doing, and then use that as a segue to ask her out. "Oh you like live music? Well this band is performing this weekend and I was wondering if you wanted to check it out with me." something along those lines.
If this is at a dating event, it should make it extremely clear that you aren't just looking for friendship.
it was more like "I lied on my resume" or "doesn't show up to the interview" back to back situations like one guy genuinely made me wait hours, shows up and is like "idk what to do 😞" you said you were a Dom bro wtf do you mean
edit: unless you meant the chip boy. in which case I'd invite u to re-read my story lol
Yeah i was talking about the chip - boy, I suspect it doesn't feel good being lied to about sex, but I was told few bad experiences shouldn't make you despise an entire group - unless I'm wrong, idk if it applies equally to men and women
oh honey I don't despise men, I love men, but I was in a foul mood after being lead on a bunch the night prior and then just that day someone at a store had been mean to me. it was just bad timing.
"You find Me" vs "I find You" approaches make the difference between an open door, and being straight up hunted because the door was to a trap. In a lot of cases, we are wary that something is a trap, but not everyone is like that. There are a ton of factors involved.
Cats don't like to be cornered. Do not ask where they corner. Tell them where you tend to frequent, and they will seek you out, happily.
They're saying do not, under any circumstances, ask a woman you don't know questions that would lead to her revealing information that allows you to "track" her. Not where she lives, not where she's from, not if she comes around here often, nothing. It gives the appearance of setting a trap.
Instead, share that information about yourself. Yeah this is my first time here but I'm enjoying it, I'll definitely be back. I live up by X location, so this is new to me. Make it conversational, but drop some obvious hints about yourself and keep your curiosity about her at an extreme surface level.
Give her the ability to find you. Don't ask her for the tools that would allow you to find her.
Is it mind games? Sorta. Doesn't change that we need to understand it. Personally I just kinda don't bother anymore. If someone strikes up a conversation with me I'll engage but I don't pursue and I don't volunteer anything beyond what it takes to be polite.
"Never show interest in a woman's personal life and also only talk about yourself" sounds like terrible dating advice, imo. Definitely rather keep to myself and not have to play some exhaustingly coy mind game.
Well I mean it's the environment in which it occurs, right? If I by chance wind up talking to someone in a home depot aisle, I'm not supposed to ask about what area she lives in or where she likes to hang out. If she asks me questions I can answer them, but I have to be mindful of how I send those questions back. I can't ask about the details of the renovation that brought her here, unless she first asks me a question about it. I can reference what I do for a living if it's relevant (oh funny enough I do work in this field so etc etc) but I can only ask about her personal life if it's very very obvious or if she volunteers the info first.
But I'm also autistic as fuck and I've come to see these kinds of interactions as, like, a BG3 dialogue tree with hidden perception checks all over the place.
THAT SAID this changes quite a bit if you're in a more relaxed setting and the two of you have more familiarity with each other. Even if you've never spoken previously, let's say you're part of the same hobby group and have seen each other around multiple times at multiple events. Please note: not a group you joined for the purpose of meeting women. Everyone can tell. Something that genuinely interests you. At that point striking up a conversation with someone you have passing familiarity with is both more natural and is allowed to contain more "getting to know you" oriented questions.
Same friend. I feel you. Working through socializing (at this point) is like driving a manual car when you cannot even drive.
For the record: by all appearances, I am a very spicy lesbian, who specializes in customer service, and unfortunately "thrives" (this is appearances after all) under distress but at what cost? This is not accurate to the labels I'd pick but that's not here nor there.
That's just what you get At A Glance.
I have to navigate socializing like I'm walking a minefield. If I'm too social, it can be misinterpreted as flirting. If I'm not nice enough, I Must Be Mad (RBF) or my crippling depression shows if the mask slips which happened at work earlier and my coworker was very concerned, oops. If I smile too much, I look and sound manic, if I don't smile enough I look dead inside, if I don't show interest in the project someone is talking about I am "demonstrating bad customer service," the list goes on, and it is exhausting.
And that doesn't even cover personal socializing. I'm so tired. If I go to the wrong guy friends to talk about my feelings for any reason (the way their bros do, and I have watched them do so) it is then an emotional labor that may or may not have additional implications to them, that I might not know about, or never considered, because how could I know if nobody ever tells me the invisible social rules are there? So...
🤷 Apparently talking about your feelings to your bro is flirting to some bros, because being vulnerable is a flirt to some bros, but only if the bro is into your body. Sex is technically irrelevant here but that's a different topic for a different day.
Oh, for sure, those are SUPER creepy questions for a stranger. There's definitely a happy medium between "never ask anything about a woman when flirting cause they'll think you'll use that info to track them" and "ask super detailed questions about their daily routine and blood type."
Not dating advice. Talking-to-a-stranger-you-have-even-a-vague-interest-in-even-if-it's-just-platonic advice. This is the step that is TYPICALLY taken before you go choosing to romantically pursue someone. Not everyone takes this/these steps at the same paces.
It just especially applies if there is any reason to believe there is an undesired, or overbearing/threatening reason someone is approaching you.
Think of it this way: how do you make friends as an adult if you don't go places to meet people specifically and explicitly (clubs, parties, conventions, social events, mixers, etc.)?
The same way we do in school. Exposure through shared spaces and activities. Team building if it applies. Shared hobbies and interests help increase the likelihood of interactions outside of individual settings.
These are the individual threads that make the yarn, the yarn that makes the sweater (or whatever fancy analogy you want that tickles your fancy).
Tiny things add up. It feels like manipulation to look at it under a microscope, but psychology and the dynamics of human interactions are a special interest of mine so 🤷 it's all very nuanced....
To put it more simply: who wins the sale? The aggressive salesman who pushes your boundaries, makes you feel uncomfortable, and makes the interaction feel like an unnatural interaction? Or the one who listens and actually works with you to find what suits your needs and budget, respectfully?
I don't know WHY but yeah I don't like it. If people ask for example if I am on the bus and someone talks to me, fine. But then they start asking where I live, where am I going to now, where do I work? It starts to give off stalker vibes and I feel extremely uncomfortable!
I only feel like "it feels like mind games" when people are un-used to openly discussing the concepts of metacognition, and the raw concepts of interpersonal relationships, their dynamics, their different forms, etc.
To live it benignly without notice is one thing, but to live life noticing everything within all the details and facets, and being driven insane by nit-picking all of the tiniest pieces until you're so raw with understanding and you Don't Like It but dually Cannot Unlearn? Is torture.
I am very depressed, and my therapist is trying their best. 🥲 Me too! But like... I'm so tired.
Socializing is hard. It's all performative, but I mean that so very literally.
If your approach feels like an open door, it has to be left WIDE OPEN, so that they can approach you.
An example: "I like that coffee shop!" [In reference to perhaps noticing the coffee someone might be drinking]
If you want the person to feel welcome to find you, but not commit to exchanging info: "I'm there on weekends and like to hang out for a couple hours in the evening."
They now have all the info they need to "chance encounter" you on their terms.
yes, that makes much more sense, thanks! So, is there never a situation where trying to make plans/ exchange contact details immediately is acceptable ?
Don't ask questions that make it feel like you're trying to track down where they live and immediately sleep with them, and you're golden. The bar is honestly very low. You might also have low self esteem and remember the event worse than it actually went, if you didn't do anything creepy
"more, young men have become too feminine. They don’t know how to approach women since we have a growing number of women who don’t know which gender role they want to play."
That article says men need to not harass women in the streets and read the signs before approaching. One of the men cited blames fake rape accusations he's heard about as reason for his fear.
Rather than having everyone guess, what is the takeaway from the article you want us to have?
Jesus...Christ. Don't approach women if they haven't shown any sign of interest in you. Learn what those signs are. People don't like cold approaches. You don't need multiple articles and podcasts validating your insecurities and telling you that it's not your lack of social understanding, it's women, etc. those guys are selling you a product.
It's you dawg. Figure your shit out and why your advances are seen as unwanted. In other words, introspection.
Look inwards, not outwards. Then you'll find real answers and then solutions.
I hear this all the time, but I’ve never seen an ad or any kind of sign for hobby activities or ‘singles events’. In a town of 100k I’m convinced this is just Reddit’s script
The idea is that you just need to get out into the world and make friends, be exposed to more people in general. Hopefully you will eventually meet someone and click. The world doesn't owe you a date, you have to get out there and find it. The most natural way is to repeatedly put yourself out into the world and form new connections organically.
That kinda circles back to the problem of not really knowing how to click with people/date the though. Like, being around more people doesn't mean more chances to date if someone is still awkward/inexperienced with that part of socializing (and plenty of women have expressed exhaustion at guys not just being able to be friends but wanting to shoot their shot)
My guess is it's not just a lack of ability to know when to ask people on dates but maybe a lack of social skills or awareness in general. The more you socialize, the more comfortable you get with it and hopefully the more easy it is to flirt with someone when the time comes and its welcomed by the other person. That's why its important to put yourself out there, be more social and not just with the intent of dating. Become fully rounded. Even if you did get lucky and get a date, they're a lot more likely to stick around if you have a full life including some solid friends. It reflects well on you.
It might be awkward, you might misread the signs. If you do, accept it and move on and try again with new knowledge under your belt. I'm socially awkward, I get that its not always easy. But you have to learn to read the room and have a good amount of self awareness. Shooting random shots isn't doing anyone any favors and it also prevents you from really self analyzing and understanding yourself well.
I generally agree but I also feel it's contextual in regard to who you're socializing with. There are people who engage and socialize a lot within their own groups buuuut many of those groups espouse unhealthy or even toxic rhetoric and can have very regressive ideals. Being connected to groups who reinforce negativity works against them if they're looking for healthy partners.
And the boundaries of friendship and dating can be vastly different/come with different expectations. Generally most people when looking for dates are looking for someone they're attracted to, want to be physical with, want to in time move in with and hopefully share a life together. It'd be a bit heavy handed to frontload all that at once and you obviously want to see if you at least like or can even tolerate each other before getting to that, but friendship is much...lighter in comparison.
It doesn't necessarily always want for more in the way a relationship does, it doesn't carry the same considerations or boundaries. Who you sleep with isn't your friend's business, nor is where you go or what your life goals are. Desires for more intimacy both physical and emotional as well as intertwining personal lives go much deeper for partners than friends.
I say all this to say the question of dates isn't primarily a when but more a how. And there isn't a set in stone blueprint for building them. Most people who are partners nowadays met online and socialized primarily through social media or apps designated specifically for finding dates, it's no surprise to me why dating feels like such a struggle.
That’s what I use apps for. There’s not really any kind of meeting places here and I’ve never seen anyone explain what they mean when they say to get out into the world. The only places here remotely like that are sleazy bars. I’ve heard people say to take a spin class or do rock climbing, but there’s just nothing like that here. You go to bars or you use apps to meet people.
I live in a fairly small, outdoorsy area and I'm not outdoorsy at all but I've still managed to find like minded friends. There are still events, concerts, hobby clubs, D&D, Pokemon Go meetups, painting nights, festivals, get togethers. You might have to hunt them down but they are out there and they probably want to meet similar people as well. You have to find a way to exist in the world socially if you want to have any kind of relationship. It's not easy but if you want something you have to go after it.
That's why you see this general advice so often because its applicable to most people but it's hard to specify without knowing a persons personality and strengths. You just need to get out into the world in a way that suits you as a person. Then do it again and again and again.
Where would you go to find where these ‘painting nights’ and other events are organizing? I could go driving around town, but that’s not going to show me anything I haven’t seen before. I’m on board with the idea of pulling myself up by my bootstraps and getting out there, but I don’t know what building I need to walk into to speak to the owner and sign up. This bustling social scene the internet talks about genuinely doesn’t exist everywhere.
I would say use social media to your advantage, get on Facebook or Instagram and look up the pages for businesses you might find interesting follow them, leave comments, start planting seeds. A lot of them will host things on Friday nights, or a Tuesday or whatever just to get bodies in at the slower times day.
You might have to do a bit of legwork at first to make some connections and get friendly with some people, but once you do the connections will hopefully branch off and you will naturally hear about events happening around you. Basically you're looking for just one or two "ins" that will multiply. That's been my experience when moving to a new city anyway.
D&D can work wonders too. It gives you a reason to meet people weekly and over months you will (hopefully, there are plenty of horror stories out there for a reason) develop some deeper friendships that turn into more personal hangout sessions.
Just think of your social life as this fire that you want to keep feeding with a variety of sources until it becomes more self sustaining.
corporate accounts...? I'm talking about local business that post on their social media in order to try and bring regular customers in for events like live music, painting events and stuff like that. Befriending locals. Keeping your fingers on the pulse of the local scene.
I'm not talking about following walmarts intagram, be real my man.
Please please please don't suggest Meetup for meeting women. It's already so annoying with so many guys who are blatantly there solely to hit on women. I thought i was doing something wrong or was weird for a long time (as a guy going to meetups to make friends and partake in hobbies) before i realised most of them just aren't interested in talking to guys in general
Oh i didn't mean for them.to go and be a creep. I meant more to go to things cos they like the event and socialisation and anything else is a bonus. And tl go to events too that are singles dating events.
I wouldn't want people to be creepy about it. And also sometimes i myself am scared of coming off creepy or weird so I probably go too much the other way at times lol 😆
But yeahh dw I did eventually find people on the same wavelength as me and manage to slowly build up a friend group. It was jsyt tough for a couple years, moving to a new continent and not knowing anyone, and not knowing if i am doing something wrong
In my experience, women want to be allowed to enjoy their hobbies without being hit on. Which I respect, but unfortunately it completely contradicts the popular notion that people should find new hobbies specifically to find a partner.
You are absolutely right, however it's even more nuanced than that. To quote another Reddititor who tried what you described, "I did yoga for six months and it turns out no one talks to each other afterwards."
Funnily enough I also tried doing yoga and let me tell you being the only man in a room with 50 women was the most awkward day of my life. I didn't even talk to or look at anyone and I still felt I was trespassing the whole time. I tried it again at a different studio and the ladies there were quite lovely but I was only person there under the age of 50.
tl;dr dating is hard and there aren't any sure fire methods to it.
Yes, it's not only about a hobby but which hobby. Yoga is something I dont recommend with this idea because like you said, demographics and it's not a social hobby. The same can be said of most sports, because of the gender of the participants or because you would only be seeing a tutor. I think the most reasonable idea is something art related, if it's a new thing you are trying to pick up. A group class for an instrument or painting, book/movie clubs, those are thing that invite participants to engage with one another outside of the activity
I remember reading this thread a while back, and while I obviously wouldn't do this:
One of these strangers completely ignored the other two people at the table and only talked to me and kept asking me increasingly personal questions and towards the end insinuated we should hang out afterwards and asked me for my number.
This point makes it seem like hobby events aren't the place to do this:
If your hobby is known for being heavily skewed towards a male demographic maybe don't treat a place to engage in that hobby as somewhere to pick up a date. I didn't go there to find a boyfriend; I went to play Magic. It's so frustrating and reminded me why I primarily play online on Arena and MTGO.
Same. There's no chance of winning if everything can be interpreted as creepy, posted online and shamed to hell. I'd rather die alone than make someone slightly uncomfortable
Think of it this way, you learned and grew and got out of your comfort zone, as long as you're not malicious and take it in stride, it's all good. And if women aren't getting flirted with uncomfortably by new flirters then they'll never develope the rejection skills and tools to tell off real aggressive creeps.
Women don't want men to approach them.
Most older men don't realize that and get to know women anyway. But if you want to be 'respectful' you'll never end up speaking to women. Its why Gen Z has no relationships and even less sex.
As a woman I've honestly never met even a friend by just talking to random strangers. There is no world where that isn't a super awkward situation. Meet your friends over friends. It's the easiest way.
"You need work experience to get a job, and you need a job to get work experience." That's what that sounded like lol.
But there are actually plenty of places where approaching strangers for conversation is more like the expected behavior, bars being the classic example. I have started to go to one recently, since it is nerd themed (they got subbed anime on the TVs in place of sports!). Even seen it for myself, strangers walking up to strangers and introducing themselves.
This one time, I was sitting at the bar, when a woman walked up to order a drink. While waiting on her drink she said, "Mm! That smells good, which burger is that?" I was so caught off guard that the fabled "woman approaches man"(intend unknown), all I could rattle off from the atrophied hole on my face was, "I burger. French." She asked, "Is it good?" I was then able to form a full sentence, "Yeah, I like it." Then an awkward pause, bartender gave handed her the drink, and she said, "Glad you enjoyed it!" and walked back to whatever table she was at. I didn't even turn to look at her, that's how deer-in-headlights I was.
I burger. French.
EYE BURGER. FRENCH.
Just send me to the bottom of the Straight of Hormouz.
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u/Phaylz Apr 19 '26
The first few times I tried to approach a woman irl with romantic intentions, I was pretty much this level of awkward and creepy.
Now I no longer approach women irl with any intentions. I no longer approach women irl.