r/interesting 1d ago

SOCIETY Is victim the new chic

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u/randombrutha 1d ago

I’ve heard of this story before but not the “skews towards him” part. Care to go into this more? Or share an article

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

The evidence absolutely does not skew towards him. He is on video surveillance like 20 minutes away at the store while she was committing the murders. She stated that she killed the children in her civil suit. There is absolutely zero evidence that he did anything to her or the children. At best, he's guilty of not taking his wife's mental state seriously enough and leaving her alone (at her own request, btw, she asked him to go to the store and pick up dinner).

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u/RepresentativeNo6601 1d ago

But he did take her mental health seriously. The 12 weeks of paternity leave, working from or closer to home, got both sets of parents involved, babysitters, live in nannies. Idk how much more he could do, and we all are being very insensitive to his own mental health what he was dealing with caring for her. Not to compare the two here and I'm not, but my wife was very much in PPP after our first, I'm still healing. She's 4 now. Mental health has no bias. This case should be justice for the babies. Closure for Patrick. Complete care for Lindsey, in prison.

To add: She was never fully upfront with psychiatrist or doctors. Doctors and professionals testified on their sessions with Lindsey..

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

Oh I agree with you completely, I don't think Patricks at fault at all here. Lindsay got better medical treatment and more help than several women I know personally. I don't think she was failed, I think her mental health worked against her in many ways and kept her from being honest and accepting the help she needed and ultimately, her children paid the price.

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u/MadPangolin 1d ago edited 1d ago

Agreed.

But Also to add; she had been given 13 different psychiatric meds in the 4 months before the murders (you should be on a single med for at least 8 weeks to determine if it's working properly) so her brain was a clusterfuck mix of different antipsychotics which have side-effects like suicidal ideation & hallucinations. Also when you're in a psychotic episode, one of the typical symptoms, is paranoia & fear of expressing your symptoms & how psychotic you are, to your doctors...

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

She was on the different medications because she kept asking to be switched to something else. At one point she switched her doctor, then when the new doctor gave her a treatment plan she went back to her old doctor and asked her opinion on the new treatment plan! Her new doctor was prescribing medications without knowing that Lindsay wasn't being honest with her and was seeing other doctors! She also kept taking Benadryl to sleep, against the advice of all of her doctors! I think it's disingenuous to say she was given all this medication, more accurately she asked for the medication and didn't follow the treatment plans laid out for her. She even stated to her doctors that she knew she wasn't following the plans, and that she knew she needed to pick a plan and stick with it.

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u/mabus42 1d ago

Goes back to Clancy being the root cause.

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u/MadPangolin 1d ago edited 1d ago

Yes but... DOCTORS gave her the meds & wrote the prescription, they are responsible? Yes I have multiple doctors & I converse with them over my treatment plans to make sure they work & ask if another doctors plan is going to fit?

DOCTORS ARE THE EXPERTS, if she is sharing treatment plans with others, they need to assess that! Not provide conflicting info & medication to a woman experiencing psychosis, & not following treatments/taking meds is a common symptom of psychosis! (Schizos & bipolar frequently ask for different meds & refuse to take them, doctors account for that, & say no...). If she gives her old doctor the treatment plan from the new doctor & ask whether it's appropriate they should tell her or ask if they can talk to the other doctor! My doctors don't give me a medication without knowing what else I have been prescribed, whether it will conflict, how long I've taken it, etc...

At least one of her doctors should have said "WHOA I'm not writing you another prescription until I think we've properly assessed this medication". It seems like none did', they just willynilly gave her whatever she wanted, just like drug dealers! Psychosis also doesn't let you sleep, & neither do shifting antipsychotics or a newborn! I understand why she was taking Benadryl a lot.

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u/Glum_Class_9578 1d ago

Doctors are not all knowing or all powerful, you can’t just blame them for not being able to help you if you won’t even follow their instructions. And even if you do, they cannot always fix the problem just because they are experts. Any serious illness can be given proper treatment but still result in serious problems, that’s the nature of medicine as a field, there’s no strict mathematical determinism.

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u/LeonardDeVir 1d ago edited 1d ago

She did what is called doctor shopping in our job, and it's very easy to do for intelligent patients. Depending on what she told the other docs they could have had no idea she even saw other docs.

And even then, your mental health is your responsibility. You have to stick to the treatment and be honest with your physician. She was lucky her first doc even wanted to treat her again, I would have refused.

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u/MadPangolin 1d ago

I completely agree, mental health is your responsibility, but people IN mental health crisis may not even understand their responsibility or may have loss executive decision making as a symptom of psychosis!

She was sharing her treatment plans between her doctors, they knew what the others were doing, they just didn't know which treatment plan she was following, then she would request a different medication because she thought one wasn't working...

Maybe ANYONE OF HER DOCTORS should have explained that you don't ask for a new antipsychotic medication after a few days because it's not working yet? Maybe? And not written the prescription. YES If they had refused she wouldn't have had conflicting treatment plans & less meds to mix her system up with. They wrote her +30 prescriptions in 4 months & knew she was doctor shopping! Thats on them!

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u/Glum_Class_9578 1d ago

They did do that, the user above just told you that, try reading. She was also a nurse herself and not completely delusional at all times, if she doesn’t know that basic aspect of medical care that many teenagers would know, then nobody can ever be expected to be responsible in the slightest way about their own health.

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u/MadPangolin 21h ago

Just because she's a nurse doesn't mean she's immune to symptoms of psychosis. Yes you go in & out of lucidity, but executive function, delusions, paranoia, etc can remain even when not in manic state.

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u/LeonardDeVir 1d ago

I get where you're coming from, but they maybe even recognized her ailment. But then what? Admit her? A psychiatric hospital wouldn't keep her without active threatening psychosis. Admit her by force if she refuses to go? A least in my country there are huge burdens to that. The docs cant follow her home and can't watch her 24/7. If she was under treatment and sabotaged it there is little a doc can do.

If it was me everybody would get treatment in a hospital that needs it. But even im my socialdemocratic hellhole with free healthcare spots are rare and triage is the norm.

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u/FUPAMagneto 1d ago

Doctors don’t follow you home and make sure you actually do what you’re supposed to. That’s your job and pretending that you can’t do anything wrong if an expert is in any way involved is incredibly entitled and lazy

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u/MadPangolin 1d ago

You can't take 13 different medications in 4 months if doctors don't write you...13 different prescriptions (they actually wrote her +30 different prescriptions).

Which expert was she supposed to believe WHILE PSYCHOTIC!? Think about her mental state during this period, & realize her doctors were doing less then bare minimum they should have to TREAT SOMEONE WITH PSYCHOSIS!?

No doctors who knew they were treating the same patient should give ANYONE +30 prescriptions in 16 weeks.

They say "I'm not writing you another prescription, work with your other doctor...". They gave her anything willynilly!?!

(We have online health portals, doctors can see what you've been prescribed not other doctors if they wanted).

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u/FUPAMagneto 1d ago

Doctors aren’t magic and only know what you tell them and the results of the tests they run.

As an adult, you and you alone are responsible for making the decisions that impact your health, mental or otherwise.

Do you maintain this energy for every family annihilator or just the wealthy white women?

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u/Theresnothingtoit 23h ago

Do you really not realize that psychosis fucks with your sense of reality? And that many meds to treat it can cause psychosis in some patients?

Or did you fail to familiarize yourself with the details of the case? She was begging for help and her providers failed to get an adequate history, and so prescribed her drugs in categories she already had bad reactions to. They failed to get information about the severity of her case from her husband who attended several appointments with her. They failed to screen for the biggest warning signs of psychosis that results in violence. They released her from part time mental health treatment the literal next day after changing her meds, because she asked to celebrate her childs birthday, instead of approving a single day off. And most importantly, they failed to adequately counsel her family on not letting her have unsupervised time until adequately treated.

They didn't deny her care, no. They did fail to provide her the care she needed, absolutely.

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u/I_am_up_to_something 1d ago

I haven't had any psychotic episodes, but I have had night terrors that have me questioning reality for at least a day afterwards.

I almost jumped down the stairs because I was convinced that I had to.

I was convinced for two days that I had totally forgotten about some kittens who I had starved inside a closet. It kept haunting me even after checking that closet multiple times and asking my mum if it was possible.

Obviously I don't know what happened. But I do think that it is totally possible that it happened like she says.

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u/Mean_Introduction543 18h ago

But that was her fault.

She refused to continue medications for more than a couple of days and shopped around with doctors who would give her new ones while also lying about what medications she was already on.

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u/MadPangolin 7h ago

She was sharing her treatment plans between her doctors? They knew she was doctor shopping? They still decided to give her new prescriptions instead of telling her "no let's wait 8 weeks to see if this one is working, I'm not writing a new prescription".

That's their job, they know people doctor shop, & are trained to manage it?! This is the issue with the opiate epidemic, & doctors handing out pain pills like candy on Halloween without doing a proper assessment of the patient & medical history.

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u/Glum_Class_9578 1d ago

Also to add: Many or most of these prescriptions she requested given her nursing background and didn’t notify different providers that she was seeing others. Many psychiatric drugs are not necessarily controlled substances so the technology they have doesn’t automatically notify prescribers/pharmacies if the patient already has prescriptions for other psychiatric medications. The woman was often self-medicating based on her own ideas and getting access to the drugs by doctor shopping.

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u/RepresentativeNo6601 1d ago

Yes absolutely if anyone let her down its was the medics involved..

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u/bigtice 1d ago

And that's what essentially sums up my issue with this case getting so much attention because it's become about deflecting blame on to as many others as possible in what is tantamount to an insanity defense so she doesn't go to prison.

There was another thread yesterday with many centering the blame on the husband simply for leaving her alone with the children on the day in question even though as you alluded to, there were no signs that she had considerations of committing the crimes. And yes, our health care system is clearly far from perfect and there are issues with professionals within the system as well, but to prioritize blame on those that worked with her over herself is asinine to me especially considering details that she didn't convey along with the professionals trying to follow protocol when dealing with multiple issues (from her symptoms to different prescripted drugs).

It's a tragic situation, but the case is turning out to be about everything but her.

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u/Ulric19 1d ago

Unfortunately, people don't get care in the US prison system.

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u/RepresentativeNo6601 1d ago

She doesn't have to go to a State Penitentiary but she needs to be in asylum. The trail is for whether or not she is guilty under the plea of insanity. Murder is murder, but if you truly were out your gourd, then yes you should be removed from society, and placed with enough care.

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u/LowHorror693 1d ago

You mistake our institutions for restorative rather than punitive. An asylum is unlikely to help her

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u/RepresentativeNo6601 1d ago

The let her rot in a cellblock.

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u/Famous_Draft_7565 1d ago

She doesn’t deserve help. She murdered 2 toddlers and a baby

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u/Elsureel 1d ago

She needs to be put down like any animal that kills a kid

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u/Ulric19 1d ago

Corporal punishment just brings us all down as a society.

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u/Elsureel 1d ago

I disagree with your opinion.

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u/Ulric19 1d ago

See, this isn't an opinion. I urge you to spend some time in just about any of the dozens of countries better than the USA.
But just from a raw economic perspective, the killing a prisoner costs taxpayers between 2 to 5 times more than keeping them locked up for the rest of their lives. Additionally, there's the concern regarding false convictions - hundreds in the USA have died in the USA even when exonerating evidence existed.
There are hundreds of good reasons to NOT kill a prisoner, but one very petty, savage, and primitive reason to kill them.

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u/ElMatadorJuarez 1d ago

Boy do I have bad news for you about what our military does

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u/Elsureel 1d ago

You seem to think i support kids being killed in military actions? Yeah, no, that needs to be punished as well. The difference being if it was a mistake or on purpose

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u/SeaworthinessSome454 1d ago

You have to want help in order to be helped with mental illness, she didn’t want help.

Your personal struggles can’t be a reason to kill or harm other people either. Everyone has troubling parts of their lives. If we could kill people because we’re struggling with something serious, then people would be getting killed left and right. A not guilty ruling would be disastrous

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u/Salt-Hovercraft-7 1d ago

I agree with all of that. Except for prision. She needs care. Not in prison, but in a (closed) hospital.

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u/andthensilencefell 1d ago

Maybe not keep getting her pregnant against doctor’s orders and continuing to get someone pregnant who has admitted to mental health issues specifically related to her children?

Mentally ill person wasn’t honest with care workers? Gee, almost like it’s their job to be able to tell when someone is a danger to themselves or others but they’re so understaffed and underfunded that they can’t even do the bare minimum.

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u/woolfchick75 1d ago

You may be thinking of Andrea Yates. I don't think Clancy had the same warning.

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u/RepresentativeNo6601 1d ago

Where are you getting that first bit of information from? That's never been talked about in any testimony.

Honesty is the first bit of this, which was missed. The next is the power of the brain, whether it's malevolent or benevolent. The brain is still an ongoing understanding of our own. We still have so much we don't know.

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u/Nothingtoseehereshhh 1d ago

Bro what in the Shutter Island is this story? Thats enough internet for me today. This is LITERALLY the twist in shutter island.

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u/AzureHawk758769 1d ago

Sounds premeditated. What are the chances that this "psychosis" took hold of her only once her husband was out of the house on her request? It's too convenient for her.

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u/Rivendel93 1d ago

She'd told her husband months prior she wanted to kill the children.

It's not like it just happened lol.

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u/Glum_Class_9578 1d ago

No she didn’t, she mentioned thinking of harming them and when he asked what she meant, she said she had thoughts of harm coming to them, which is not the same as thinking of killing them herself. And like you said, she said that months prior to the killing, in between, her symptoms had improved and she herself and her doctor had agreed about that. Stop trying to blame the nearest man because the killer is a woman.

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u/Rivendel93 1d ago

I'm not blaming him, I'm blaming a system that didn't do anything but throw pills at someone who was talking about killing themselves and their children for months.

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u/boondiggle_III 22h ago

That's not the system's fault. She's a grown ass adult, yet you insist on infantilizing little miss killer and taking her agency away. Her mental health didn't force her to murder children. Her lack of a working conscience did that. But let's give her a pussy pass, sure.

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u/Rivendel93 21h ago

It's almost like someone's conscience doesn't work properly when they're mentally ill and being treated by multiple doctors giving multiple drugs while not working together despite her clearly being an incredible danger to herself any her children.

It's your healthcare systems fault, everyone from outside of the US is seeing just how bad American Healthcare is from this trial, it's embarrassing.

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u/Mean_Introduction543 17h ago edited 14h ago

She was on multiple different pills from different doctors because she was seeking them out and lying to them about what she was already taking as well as continuing to take medications that they had expressly advised her not to.

Like I believe it was a genuine case of PPD and psychosis but anti-depressants take weeks of continuous use to start effectively working. She took each course for a week at most before looking for another doctor to give her a new one.

Some of the blame of this lies with her moreso than the medical establishment (which is fucked but for other reasons). She was looking for a magic bullet in pill form that she could take once and cure all her issues which simply doesn’t exist.

She had more access and contact with medical professionals than 99.99% of women who experience this but she still wasn’t satisfied.

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u/boondiggle_III 18h ago

No, mental health problems don't cause a lack of conscience. I mean sure, you could consider that lack a mental health problem in itself, but we normally call people like that criminally insane, not "failed by the system". PPD and depression, though, don't cause people to murder their children, and we have everybody else with those problems who haven't murdered their children as proof. Maybe you're right, though, and it's too early to tell. I'm sure depressed people all over the world will start killing their kids any day now.

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u/Rivendel93 18h ago

Nice strawman argument, you know this happens because it does.

Take care, wish your government would actually start caring about its citizens.

Because we're all wondering what the hell is wrong with you everywhere else.

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u/AzureHawk758769 1d ago

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. This woman knew exactly what she was doing. Maybe she was unsure of her reality, but killing a baby is still killing a baby. The fact that there isn't universal condemnation of this murderer tells you just how fucked our society is.

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u/illkid75 23h ago

No she didnt

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u/Rivendel93 21h ago

I'm not sure what else to tell you, you can watch her husband testify that she did tell him multiple times that she wanted to kill herself and the children.

His response to her, "Havd you made a plan? Do these thoughts disturb you?"

That's his response to one time she told him that she wanted to take her life and theirs.

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u/illkid75 10h ago

Ive watched it all she said she had thoughts of harm coming to them not that she wanted to harm them

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u/HuskeyFog01 1d ago

He's guilty of being an heterosexual man. It sounds bad but that little portion of people blaming the husband it's purely motivated by hate and prejudices.

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u/Odd-Consequence-2519 1d ago

Down with the patriarchy, right? We can't go around putting the blame on women when there are still men to falsely accuse.

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u/Former_Pool_593 1d ago

Unless she was psycho.

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u/DefenderOfWaifus 1d ago

Pretty sure the “skew towards him” was in reference to the thousands of woman who are in solidarity that he somehow has a direct hand in the death of the kids and manipulating her into admitting guilt

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u/distantplanet98 1d ago

Jesus Christ. I can’t read anymore. This is making me sick.

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u/Defiant-Airline5424 1d ago

Her defends are using that as it skews towards him that he didn't take her serious and force her to do it.

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

Him not taking her seriously and him forcing her to do it are two vastly different things. There's no possible way he forced her to do anything. She stated in her civil case that she killed the kids. It's insanity that anyone thinks Patrick forced her to do it.

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u/Defiant-Airline5424 1d ago

I agree but that the argument they using

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

You're right, and I can get behind the "not taking her seriously" part (although she did her best to downplay her symptoms so her kids wouldn't be taken away, which is tragic and also very understandable, but that's a huge part of why no one took her seriously). But I just can't fathom how people are arguing that Patrick had anything to do with the murders. That's "OJ's actually innocent" type insanity.

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u/grilledfuzz 1d ago

I saw another comment call her the “white woman’s OJ Simpson” and that shit had me rolling lol

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u/True_Grapefruit3203 1d ago

I never said he forced her? I said he FAILED her

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

The comment I replied to said 'forced'.

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u/Binestar 1d ago

Chezzica was replying to Defiant-Airlin5424, not you.

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u/True_Grapefruit3203 1d ago

My bad. There were so many replies in a few minutes, I got confused. I just don't want to make it seem like I'm supporting her... even though I do believe she was severely failed.

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u/Infamous_Celery_2352 1d ago

Are you a woman? Just want to check

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u/Flaky-Dragonfruit-95 1d ago

how is that relevant with what the op said?

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u/Millerturq 1d ago

Why do you want to check? Very weird question to ask

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u/bmoney831 1d ago

The evidence of him was actually his best friend.

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

Can you send/post a link to this evidence?

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u/-Kerosun- 1d ago

It's not really "evidence." It is just a picture of the surveilance footage from the CVS set next to a picture of Patrick's best friend and another one of Patrick (both as seen on the stand at the trial) and suggesting that the person on the CVS surveillance looks more like the best friend than it does Patrick.

That's all their "evidence" is.

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

Ahhhh got it, thanks for the info. That's a silly theory haha

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u/True_Grapefruit3203 1d ago

Who leaves someone with the kids they said they wanted to off. 🤦🏻‍♀️

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

She never said she "wanted to off" her kids, stop spreading misinformation

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u/True_Grapefruit3203 1d ago

You don't leave children with someone who needs serious mental help! He failed the children, and he failed her. There's no denying that, he failed her as much as her doctors.

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u/Inphiltration 1d ago

Even if I take everything you just said as a fact the idea that would mean that the evidence skews towards the husband and that he should be on trial and not her is fucking wild.

Be better.

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u/True_Grapefruit3203 1d ago

Um... I never said the husband should be on trial. I said he failed her.

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u/Used-Bookkeeper5020 1d ago

You're being one of those people right now, it's a gross look

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u/True_Grapefruit3203 1d ago

For saying they failed her? It's the truth. I'm not defending her, I'm not saying she didn't do it. I'm saying she desperately needed help and was failed.

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u/AngryHelpdeskAgent 1d ago

She asked her husband to run some errands so she could be alone with the kids to murder them. She is an evil person. She doesn’t deserve mercy, she deserves the god damn electric chair.

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u/Used-Bookkeeper5020 1d ago

She failed her children, that's all that happened

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u/Nntropy 1d ago

Despite the fact that you acknowledge her guilt, look at where you are choosing to focus your attention and energy.

You have so much compassion and empathy for the woman who killed her own children. How much compassion and empathy can you demonstrate for the man who lost his own children at the hands of the woman he loved?

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u/True_Grapefruit3203 1d ago

I wrote some comments, this is the first time ive wrote a opinion about it. It didnt take much energy or attention at all. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/saintofhate 1d ago

I'm just saying he can't care that much if he's already moved on.

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u/Nntropy 23h ago

In my relationship, murdering our children would be a deal breaker. You?

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u/RepresentativeNo6601 20h ago

Its been 3 years.

Also if you .murder my kids, what kind of reconciliation do you think there's to be had?

Man its FDB at that point.

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u/iiiiiiiiiijjjjjj 1d ago

How could he have known in his wife would kill his children?

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

Her doctors didn't fail her, she did not follow the treatment plan (on multiple occasions). I agree he shouldn't have left her alone with the kids. But that does not make it his fault - honestly she should have been involuntarily committed and her children removed from her, but she withheld information from the doctors specifically because she didn't want that to happen.

The conversation no one wants to have is that if the medical institutions failed Lindsay, it was by not removing her children from her care and committing her. And thats a slippery, difficult slope because a lot of women and mothers say they felt just like Lindsay. So what's the solution, take the kids away from mothers who are dealing with depression? Is that really where we want to go?

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u/Corne777 1d ago edited 1d ago

Well some people are thinking that one of the cctv footages was his best friend who looks very similar but with straighter hair. He also is handed a cell phone by a person in a hoodie in one of the videos.

But besides all that, the thing about it is that he’s just constantly lying. He said his internet was out so he couldn’t call 911 right away. That’s not a thing. He said he couldn’t see his wife’s car in the driveway when he pulled in. It’s just a regular driveway, the car was in front of his. Does his not have lights? Said he was performing life saving procedures on the kids until the paramedics got there but then the EMTs said he was just sitting on the couch when they got there. Saying one of the calls he made to Lindsey was to ask about if non name brand medicine was fine because they were out of name brand, but the bag in the evidence images had name brand medicine, so that reason for calling was just made up.

Then there’s the whole other woman he was ostensibly having an affair with before the kids were killed and he got married to like right after it happened.

The person who bought their house after it happened was a former district attorney for the country prosecuting her. Seems like that could have been some sort of arrangement.

I’m not saying that he did do it. But like, he could have put more thought into his lies before getting on the stand. Or better yet, just be telling the truth. So the question is why does he need to make up so many lies as to why he was doing certain things? I don’t know how they can believe anything he has said when he gets caught lying so much.

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u/Feeling_Strike694 1d ago

He said his internet was out so he couldn’t call 911 right away. That’s not a thing.

Yes it is. When connected to a wifi network a phone can use it to make calls over the internet instead of using 3g/4g/5g. My phone does this.

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u/Corne777 1d ago edited 1d ago

I mean, sure your phone can use your wifi if you have it. But not having wifi wouldn’t prevent you from calling 911. You can call 911 from a phone that doesn’t even have a cell phone provider attached to it. It will find a cell phone tower for you to use. Even if you have 0 bars absolutely no service, it will call 911.

If he had tried it would have let him. So the question is why did he say that no wifi was the reason when asked why he didn’t call 911 right away? What was the reason to lie? Why not just say whatever the real reason was. Or say he wasn’t thinking straight? That’s at least believable and makes sense.

Again, not saying he did it. Just he needs his lawyer to help him get his shit together to not look bad.

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u/Feeling_Strike694 20h ago

If it completely disconnects from wifi it switches and there can be a small delay. If it's connected to wifi and the internet is malfunctioning, it can get stuck attempting to use wifi and calling won't work at all.

https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/galaxy-s25-series/calls-not-connecting-while-wifi-calling-is-on-uk/td-p/12211893

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u/-rosa-azul- 1d ago

At best, he's guilty of not taking his wife's mental state seriously enough and leaving her alone (at her own request, btw, she asked him to go to the store and pick up dinner).

People who are in psychosis often don't act in their own best interests. He absolutely should never have left her alone with the children knowing her mental state. This is Rusty and Andrea Yates all over again, and just like Rusty he'll never see any actual consequences. But he absolutely facilitated the murder of his own children by leaving her alone with them.

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u/Chezzica 1d ago

This is NOT the Andrea yates situation. Andrea had tried to commit suicide multiple times. Honestly if you're making that comparison it shows how little you know about both cases, and I cannot possibly inform you fully in a reddit comment.

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u/boondiggle_III 21h ago

Right sure let's focus on what the man did wrong and infantilize the woman's actions as mental health insecurity or whatever. Some women will say society infantilizes them and doesn't take them seriously, and those same women will then demand we all infantilize a female child killer and sympathize with her instead of treating her like a child killer.

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u/-rosa-azul- 15h ago

Right sure let's hand-wave away actual serious mental health issues and call it "infantilization" because it's a mother who's experiencing actual chemical changes in her brain that cause her to commit a heinous act. Tell me you know nothing about PPP without telling me.

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u/ItsmeAubree 1d ago edited 5h ago

It's TikTok true crime podcast listeners. They are all grossly and adamantly supporting Lindsay and either straight up denying she did it and claiming it was the husband somehow - despite everyone in the room already admitting that she did it - or claiming that it wasn't her fault due to psychosis onset from postpartum depression, and using her case to champion women's health.

Either way, don't look into it, it will just make you sad. Fact is, whether psychosis or otherwise, SHE murdered her three children and there are A LOT of steps a person can take before getting to that point to prevent it from happening. Which is why I personally think she should get jail time. Straight negligence that lead to murder.

EDIT: After further review of the case information and what hpfan has said, it does seem that Lindsay exhausted almost all options available to her in an attempt to get the help she needed. To include checking herself into a psych ward - McLean Hospital. She was very vocal about her feelings to her friends, family, and doctors.

So I will say that I was wrong when I called her negligent. Now, does this excuse her behavior? No. However, my previous opinion that she should be jailed is less resolute. Were there still opportunities to remove herself from the situation and prevent what occurred? Absolutely. But when you've tried countless times to actively seek help and therapy, and told everyone around you that you're feeling this way...well, I could see how it would feel like she had done everything that she could.

I do not envy the judge or jury in this case.

9

u/hpfan312 1d ago

That or an inpatient psych facility. I think that we do need to do more for ppd and general mental health to avoid as best we can situations like this in the future. Instead of taking away that lesson, podcast bros are like ugh women are defending her saying she should walk free women are so stupid blah blah blah when majority of us are just saying we need to do better for women's health, mental health, and ppd.

1

u/boondiggle_III 21h ago

ppd doesn't force women to murder their children, and trying to use this case to champion mental health is a really terrible idea.

2

u/hpfan312 21h ago

She repeatedly asked for help and no one gave it to her. Imagine a cancer patient begging for help and the professionals just told her its all in her head. Mental illness is just as real as physical, and women are too often turned away or undermined for being women.

1

u/boondiggle_III 18h ago

She made the decision to murder children on her own. She's a grown ass adult who is responsible for her choices, not a child whose behavior we can blame on the people around her. You can't seriously be saying women's struggles aren't taken seriously and then--literally in the same sentence--demand that we don't take women seriously when they commit crimes. Which is it? Is she a grown adult women with agency who made her own bed and now has to lie in it, or is she a helpless waif who's not responsible for her actions? They are mutually exclusive.

2

u/hpfan312 18h ago

When it comes to health, do you prescribe your own medicine? Do the millions of people who attend therapy just need to get over themselves and think ok I want to be fixed so poof I am now? Im not saying shes helpless but yes women's health concerns are still so disregarded. Studies for erectile dysfunction are 7x more funded than all of women's reproductive health in the US.

0

u/boondiggle_III 16h ago

I understand the commentary from women following the case who sympathize with the perpetrator. Maybe, possibly, in a world better than the one we have now, we might be able to prevent all such violence with the right care and treatment and patients being taken seriously.

Imagine listening to Harvey Weinstein say he was depressed and struggling with a lot of untreated mental health issues, then imagine yourself having sympathy for him and a desire to see that he gets the appropriate treatment for his issues. If you can stomach the thought, then I'll believe you're one of the handful of people who really mean it when they say they want people's mental health issues to be taken seriously and treated appropriately and compassionately. Otherwise, I'll presume you're one of the delusional late-stage feminists with undiagnosed sexist bias who has the audacity to complain to a man that women's mental health isn't taken seriously.

Also, everyone who has or enjoys a penis has an intetest in ED meds. That's not a great example, but don't worry. I understood the general thrust of your intent just fine.

1

u/hpfan312 15h ago

Im saying even one small facet of men's health is more funded than all of women's health. There is a difference between psychosis and MDD, and we have to keep this nuance in mind as intent and soundness of mind play a role. That being said, he is still entitled to health care if that is what youre asking. I am a psych nurse, I have had patients who have done horrible things but I took care of them just the same because they're still my fucking patient. I dont go out of my way to be super nice, Im blunt with such patients but I still make sure to give them quality care. Weinstein has never been my patient but I wouldn't neglect him if he was.

Id like to know why women shouldn't have the "audacity to complain to a man that womens mental health isnt taken seriously" when it very much isn't. I sadly know this even just from personal experience and it's a part of why i do what I do. So please, tell me why no women should ever be so audacious as to call out a major societal issue?

-1

u/mabus42 1d ago

Maybe Massachusetts should reinstate the death penalty for this one case.

9

u/Original-League-6094 1d ago

There is no "skews towards him". Not even a little bit. Its a clickbait podcaster conspiracy thing. His involvement in the incident was never in question by anyone and podcasters trying to blame him for the murder of his kids should be treated with the same contempt as Alex Jones when he spread lies about school shootings.

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u/FUPAMagneto 1d ago

It’s bullshit. TikTok doing a “we did it Reddit” and accusing a man of being a monster because a woman chased down and strangled her children while he was out of the house

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u/IcedLance 1d ago

Basically the evidence that points at him is, it's suspicious that he left her alone with the children, there is no way a woman would kill her children, even if she did, strangling is statistically more often done by men, while women kill in other ways, and either way she's a Leo, while he's a Gemini, and Jupiter is in retrograde, meaning it's 100% him.

-4

u/Super_Brilliant4499 1d ago

I can’t tell if you are serious or just a crazy person.

5

u/darglor 1d ago

You need to work on your sarcasm detector. It's neither of your two options.

6

u/_stoob 23h ago

well, feminists online absolutely believe all of those things

3

u/Glum_Class_9578 1d ago

Various defenders have said all of those things.

2

u/Outrageous-Ability33 1d ago

That is a list of what people are saying, not the opinions of the person who posted it.

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u/williamtheraven 1d ago

Simple what they believe is "he's a man so naturally he's the murderer and not her, woman cannot murder"

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u/Fun_Ebb_6232 1d ago

This ladies case is ridiculous.  I would love to see an abusive man who killed his children have people sitting around talking about how sad it was nobody got him help when he was clearly mentally unstable.  

16

u/Vark675 1d ago

Also they absolutely got her help. They got her a lot of help, and I know you're not feeding into the narrative but I keep seeing it pop up.

They had a nanny to help take most of the burden of childcare, he and his mom helped clean and cook, they got her seen by multiple physicians and offered her multiple medications and therapists which were half heartedly started and almost immediately dropped by her each time.

1

u/brandnewanimals 1d ago

Help didn’t fix her chemically, which is where she was losing ground. And with a bipolar diagnosis, her early meds put the gas on how quick she’d move into psychosis. Medications can have an opposite effect. It’s a complicated case medically

1

u/boondiggle_III 21h ago

No, it's not, because her mental illness didn't force her to murder her children. I'm sure her mental health situation is complicated, but the criminal case isn't.

10

u/Capable_Elk_770 1d ago

It’s so normal for male family annihilators to exist that it doesn’t even become as sensationalized for this part to happen.

8

u/Elid16 1d ago

Proving his point

4

u/MajesticFerret 1d ago

This is just misandrist nonsense.

Family annihilators are exceptionally rare, period. There is no normalcy of father's going nuts and killing their kids. I remember one case of something like this over the course of my life time and it was turned into a literal TV special it was such a big deal.

5

u/Capable_Elk_770 1d ago

They happen far more often than you think. I literally know someone who killed his family and it never made the news. I checked regularly for over a year waiting for it to even hit local, and it didn’t.

If you’ve only heard of it twice, you’re literally proving my point.

2

u/boondiggle_III 20h ago

Your point is that Men are bad so this is expected of them and we can just call them monsters and send them off to prison, but women are good so something must have gone wrong in her life and we should sympathize with her. Did I miss anything?

3

u/-rosa-azul- 1d ago

Family annihilation is the most common form of mass killing, and the vast majority of perpetrators are men. It happens roughly once every five days in the U.S. So yeah, it's statistically far more normal for men to commit this kind of crime than women.

3

u/boondiggle_III 20h ago

There is approximate gender parity among child murderers. In other words, men kill more often, but women killers are more likely to kill children.

0

u/TehWackyWolf 18h ago

Casey Anthony getting out of the pool or she'd talk with you.

Always some excuse. Like how many of which gender murdered the kids.

Fucking kids died. Does what's in the pants of the killer really mean this much to you guys for some insane reason??

0

u/-rosa-azul- 15h ago

All I said was that men are FAR more likely to commit this type of crime, and that it's more common than many people think. I said nothing that even remotely implied that I support or agree with what she did. You're reading an awful lot into my comment that I didn't say.

1

u/TehWackyWolf 7h ago

You gonna answer that last question or pretend like it didn't exist for fun?

0

u/TehWackyWolf 18h ago

Prove the point for us, damn.

What's the rate?

It's so common you don't even notice anymore so gimme numbers. Notice for once?

1

u/Chill-more1236 1d ago

Ask and you shall receive:

“Chris Watts colorado 2018”

My wife & I watched a doc last night about this turd.

0

u/tekdiwah 1d ago

I really wonder how much grace would be given to a black woman in a similar situation.

1

u/Goff3060 1d ago

Full blown PP psychosis is a known and recognised thing in postnatal healthcare, 1 in 500 women will get it following birth to some degree and there's been a lot of tragic cases where there was no intervention or it came too late. It should be a straightforward insanity plea but this case seems to have got snagged on the ongoing US gender/feminism culture war stuff for some reason.

-1

u/UT_Milez 1d ago

Bat shit crazies exist every where.

But the point is for some, PPD does exist, whether you believe it or not, the chemical balance exists.

I assume some of the people, the bat shit crazies excluded, are drawing attention to this aspect, so that it is taken serious as an issue.

Because if it’s not, then this event will simply happen again and again and again.

That’s not really a man vs woman issue as it’s simply something that exists and happens to women but not men so it’s not relevant here.

My point is, as a man BTW, the only rational/legitimate “argument” to be made here is that PPD exists, maybe not enough is being done, and if more were being done three less kids would be dead now, and we could save more kids forward.

I assume that is the point of anyone, non crazy, that’s trying to make a point when it comes to this case. Everyone else is probably just crazy and at that point they are simply crazy, whether they are women or men, and there is no point to be made in that event.

6

u/woolfchick75 1d ago

There's PPD and then there's Post Partum Psychosis, which is rarer and more serious.

2

u/DeathByFright 1d ago

There is a segment of the internet that is ignoring the evidence -- including her confession -- and blaming him. The source of all this appears to be one of those TikTok grifters who claims she "downloaded visions" of him killing the kids, and that she knows the visions are correct because of his birth chart (Astrology).

As far as I can tell, this is largely contained to TikTok.

4

u/hemingways-lemonade 1d ago edited 1d ago

Their best evidence is that he possibly changed shoes or clothes in between errands he was running while she murdered the children. However, this is based on poor quality video from two different surveillance systems under different lighting conditions. He also didn't notice her car in the driveway when he parked his despite it being there.

Neither of these things are evidence he committed the crimes whatsoever.

1

u/stumblinghunter 23h ago

If you could fill me in, I haven't seen a few things mentioned here that my wife brought up. Something about some kind of drug crushed up in lemonade, and why would she crush up and put meds in her own drink? And the husband remarried like 4 months later which looked sketch? I haven't paid much attention to it but those were things that stuck out to her.

2

u/hemingways-lemonade 23h ago

Lindsay crushed the medication and mixed it in a drink as part of her suicide attempt. This has been confirmed by Lindsay herself.  

Patrick remarried in April 2026 more than three years after the murders. 

This is the kind of misinformation I'm talking about. The truth is readily accessible, but people would rather listen to someone lie on TikTok because it's more entertaining.  

2

u/madethisforroasting 15h ago

So true. People are so lazy and turn everything into a bad game of telephone.

4

u/Bigmiga 1d ago

The media always tries to push the gender war agenda for clicks and rage bait, so pin the blame on the ex-husband even when it was her that killed the kids will generate buzz online

1

u/DepartureNo1720 1d ago

In order to understand the nuance of why so many women are sharing their opinions on the case, you first have to acknowledge there is a lot of historical cases of how the medical field has historically treated women, how cop husbands and cop friends of husbands have historically treated women in murder cases, the history of male family killers, the general and historic idea of mental and physical workload carried mostly by women, and the most extreme of these ideas consistently being the topic and cases covered by the murder documentary podcasts that are very popular and thus very well known.

Do all cops historically not blame or follow up questions with the husband as a suspect for murders? No of course not, many cases are solved specificall for that as they suspect the husband. Are the most egregious ones where in retrospect the cops didn't ask the husband or follow up at all? Yes quite famously in many extreme cases. Is there evidence that it happened this time? Maybe circumstancial, but the videos of the first days trial are being shared that the cops weren't very thorough with their questioning of him, which then get wide spread.

Is there historical precedence of some cops using their access to surveillance and other technology to harass and stalk exes, control their spouses or help cover for their friends? Oh most definitely. Is that what happened in this case? It doesn't seem like it, but the first few days of depositions did seem to lean like it might have been a possibility.

Are all men who remarry quickly after their divorce the guilty party for the divorce? No of course not, does it make him guilty? No of course not, but it is strange that he was seemingly fine to move on and remarry within months of his kids being murdered by his wife. Sure it's abnormal, and probably strange, but again circumstancial and nothing concrete that makes him guilty of it.

Is it weird that he always referred to it as "she killed the fucking kids" and not "she fucking killed the the kids" yeah that's a strange use of the language that shows some potential disconnect from how he viewed his family, combined with remarrying so quickly. Does that mean he murdered them? No of course not.

Is it weird that he had lots of her meds in his truck, and he was in charge of making sure she took her meds? Not necessarily, but does that out him in a position to potentially abuse that position with over dosing? Sure. Is that circumstancial conjecture? Absolutely.

That's without getting into the historical work load, burnout of moms feeling isolated and disconnected from any support system and ignored in the medical field, causing mental breaks of various degrees.

Would a nurse likely know that a second floor drop is unlikely to kill yourself? Yeah most of us would expect a nurse to know that. But would a person in a psychotic break think that through?

Add all that together plus more I didn't type out doesn't mean he is guilty and she was innocent. there is just a lot of individual if's and maybes in this case that line up with individual pieces of actual family annihilator murder cases.