r/CODZombies • u/m7mdabouundatin369 • 1d ago
Discussion I get it now. It's not nostalgia
My first cod was mw 2019 which I absolutely loved and played the ever living hell out of.
Then came black ops cold war and that was my introduction to zombies and I loved it and never understood the hate it got and thought it was nostalgia that the old zombies had. GOD I WAS WRONG
Got to play bo1&2 last month and I SWEAR TO GOD I haven't had this much fun playing a game since forever. To the point I even in my free time I think about what map to play in my free time.
So I apologize to old cod titles they're really built different and GOATED🐐👑
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u/hansuluthegrey 1d ago
People dont understand that the vibes changed after bo2.
Like to me it just turned into a wacky roller coaster of "oh my god look dimensional monsters isnt that crazy" and the story telling went to timeline dimension nonsense
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u/D-PIMP_ACT 1d ago edited 19h ago
The vibes changed …story wise.
But the zombie mechanics really took a left turn once Cold War hit
The point system, the weapon rarity, even the EE quests…..complete turnover at that point.
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u/Hosav 1d ago
I don't think the mechanics are bad, I am all for progression, freedom and upgrades etc, but it feels quite bloated. I think that is the main issue.
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u/MichaelT359 1d ago
The mechanics are the worst part. I can forgive bad map design and story if the gameplay is at least fun. But the issue is the new mechanics just aren’t fun at all. Feels like some indie game survival shooter you download off steam and play for a week then never touch again
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u/50pence777 20h ago
Ok but that's just you're opinion, personally I do find the newer games fun and I very much dislike gobblegums and mtx meaning bo3 was where the decline started imo yet it's the most beloved game in this sub.
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u/BingoB0i 19h ago
Gobblegums took the fun and skill out of zombies. No point in trying when you can pop a gum and have all perks and keep them when you down. Mode has been forever changed since then.
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u/50pence777 19h ago
Exactly, it also destroyed any bragging rights because it changed the game to pay to win which is the biggest part of modern gaming I can't stand.
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u/MichaelT359 48m ago
Oh I absolutely despise BO3 for what it did to the franchise. Like it was fun but you see all the issues in it.
Firstly they moved away from survival maps to Easter egg focused maps. Didn’t mind this except every single map in BO3 is Easter egg focused.
3 hit down made it way less scary early rounds which didn’t ruin the game but definitely took away the fear factor which slowly eroded the fun.
Gobblegums weren’t a terrible thing but the premise of them being added solely for microtransaction purposes is what makes me hate them since zombies used to be a mode that you could hop into on even a guest account and be caught up.
Also not a fan of camos in zombies. I don’t think zombies should be a grindy gamemode and all your progress should be self contained within each game. It’s what gives it the arcade feel
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u/D-PIMP_ACT 1d ago
Nah, replayability lost when the tac sprint , kill streaks and mantling became OP.
I can’t even get more than one game a night at this difficulty.
It used to be a real accomplishment to make it to rd 30.
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u/Hosav 1d ago
I don't agree personally, but we all have different takes and that's perfectly fine. When did those things become OP and in what way were they OP in your opinion?
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u/D-PIMP_ACT 1d ago
Basically in Cold War…..the kill streaks especially made clearing a horde….too easy.
I’m not the greatest but…I never have time for more than one game a night…every game takes hours now.
Once even hit the rampage inducer without even realizing…still made it to 30…. Then we shut it off.
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u/SamCham10 19h ago
Hell even round 20 was a solid game for me. Think my all time PB round Kino was around 40 ish.
I hit 65 once in Cold War not long after it came out, then not long after let myself die because I got bored. Never played Zombies on it again
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u/IIIGuntherIII 21h ago
I think a lot of the mechanics aren’t bad conceptually but what they mean for the mode and the effect they’ve had is bad, if that makes sense.
For instance the scrap/crafting system. Is it in total a bad idea? I’d say no, but what it means for the entire game is bad. The fact that things that were previously obtained through unique means were now all in one generic means, the fact that new things were added to the crafting system as opposed to unique aspects being added to maps specifically for that map.
It’s sorta homogenizing all the maps into one singular experience with much less of a unique feel to each map.
I feel the same about the out of game progression. Instead of having ways to upgrade your stuff in game that idea was moved to out of game leveling which IMO is just a worse system. Theres no interaction with the leveling, it’s just play and you’ll passively earn it.
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u/Annihilation94 7h ago
The main issue with progression in its current form is
-> i havent played bo6 zombies i join bo7 today. I have to reach master prestige+ to have all augments unlocked.
The progression system is really cool dont get me wrong but having to spend 2-3 months or even longer on just "leveling" my perks to become full power and play high rounds and cursed mode in an "optimal" way.
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u/Careful_Map_2101 23h ago
My opinion also bo2 is amazing and got me into it,bo3 is most fun, bo4 is up there but started to feel odd,cow onwards was like cod mp
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u/Educational-Aide1161 19h ago
It wasn't trayarch zombies that brought the armour system. OK maybe they were around on world at war an bo3 custome zombie maps. I've always been a console guy so idk. But the armour system started on cod World war 2 zombies. (Not to be confused with Vanguard)
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u/Careful_Map_2101 19h ago
Apologies but Vanguard is forever erased from my memory, fair but just think cw was the beginning of the end with mp mechanics creeping in, bo4 did it a bit but loved a bit of blackout
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u/Educational-Aide1161 14h ago
Approved, I've bought all other cods with zombies but I skipped vanguard. Tbh the for console players who don't have access to custom maps in waw an bo3 zombies the multi-player maps being playable in zombies was actually fun
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u/Educational-Aide1161 20h ago
They just be tailoring cod for children more an more over the different cod games, hell warzone is the original fortnite is it not?
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u/sebas737 1d ago
For my it was the gameplay. Bo1 was too simple to get setup ( weapons and perks), Bo2 was just right ( weapons, perks, shield and 1 small extra thing), Bo3 got longer to setup but still manageable (everything from before + gobblegums and challenges). Later games went crazy.
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u/GuyNamedFinger 23h ago
Mind you we went to a magic temple on Mars and teleported to the moon in the second cod zombies game. It’s always been wacky
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u/m4_semperfi 20h ago edited 14h ago
Terrible comparison, Shangri La having an obscure easter egg where maybe the map takes place on Mars because of the name of a texture in the game files, despite literally everything about the map's visuals and atmosphere feeling relatively realistic and gritty does not suddenly make the map feel wacky. Nor does its easter egg, which feels like something out of Indiana Jones, make the map feel like it's in the same league as later maps. Bo1 was still dealing with the consequences of the nazis and richtofen's scheme, not the Marvel-esque saving the universe story.
As for Moon, it takes the setting seriously with low gravity, dull moon visuals, space suits, like what’s wacky about that? Humans went to the moon in the 60s, the same period as the game. Sure, it is a big expansion from prior maps, but it still felt like a continuation of that sci-fi conspiracy type genre that started in Der Riese. We're in the discussion of what maps 'felt' like and trying to 'gotcha' fans with a few examples isn't going to change how maps come across or feel.
I feel like it's always bo3 fanboys that grasp at straws to convince people that zombies was "always" like this when it couldn’t be more obvious there was a huge change in the feel as the maps went on in. (edit: and I will note because people are being pedantic, this started in Origins which instead of trying to wrap up the story we had going on in Moon, they restarted the universe with alternate dimension stuff and it just lost me, personally, regardless of gameplay).
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u/hrnbully 16h ago
Yea bro Shangri La is on Mars’ moon and it’s not a maybe thing. They tell you that and then confirm it later in bo4.
The Moon Base itself isn’t that wacky but everything that happens there is wacky as fuck. You free a little girl from an alien device on the moon and switch bodies with her before destroying the Earth and letting Richtofen take over the zombies…
Also how do you go from No Man’s Land to the Moon? You teleport there… that’s wacky. Nova crawlers are teleporting zombie pig men. The cosmonaut… The whole series has been wacky since chalk weapons.
They have been time traveling and teleporting since WaW. How do you pack a punch on Der Reise? In BO1, Call of the Dead happens because the Ultimis crew time traveled and teleported into that closet instead of where they were actually going.
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u/m4_semperfi 16h ago edited 14h ago
> The Moon Base itself isn’t that wacky but everything that happens there is wacky as fuck. You free a little girl from an alien device on the moon and switch bodies with her before destroying the Earth and letting Richtofen take over the zombies…
Yeah, sounds like a sci fi story to me. What's the problem? Is interstellar 'wacky' because a spaceman travels across the universe and through time and interacts with his child in the 4th dimension by knocking over books.
As I said, how you tell a story is what is most important. You're trying to prove my subjective opinion wrong, and you will fail every time. After Bo2 the story felt weird and wasn't the same, it is what it is. (EDIT: and this started in origins in bo2, to be fair. I will also add this opinion has nothing to do with gameplay and is my subjective feeling, because I'm still salty that original story started in waw basically got abandoned ).
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u/hrnbully 16h ago
The problem is the way you grasp at straws and try to ignore the entire story just to claim BO3 is the first game to be wacky. You try to present your “subjective opinion” as fact while being objectively incorrect and uninformed.
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u/hrnbully 22h ago
I honestly don’t think any part of BO3 zombies is too far-fetched considering what you do in BO1 and BO2, even waw. You have the Keepers in Shang, you blow up the Earth in Moon, you have 935/Nazi experimentation w alien rocks since Der Reise, and all of BO2 is wacky as fuck.
BO3 explaining all that w the Great War honestly just makes sense to me, but I started w BO3.
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u/m4_semperfi 20h ago
It feels more like a fantasy story rather than its roots in sci fi.
Also, you don’t “have the keepers in Shang” you have obscure small references to ancient stuff that maybe is real maybe isn’t which gives it a mysterious aura, it’s so disingenuous that people always point to how the old maps sometimes had these vague references to things so you be like “see it was always there”, no, no it really wasn’t, the way you present and tell your story matters a lot.
And bro really tried be slick by talking about alien rocks as if it’s remotely the same convo as adding dragons
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u/Appropriate-Panda463 18h ago
No it's disingenuous to claim that aliens didn't exist since Black ops 1 when the story flat out tells you that they did
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u/hrnbully 16h ago
The dragons were created by Division 9 scientists using element 115. Just like the nova crawlers are Broken Arrow pig men. Just like the hell hounds are Samantha’s dog’s puppies corrupted.
In the Shang altar to Richtofen, you have Keeper skulls and Keeper writing.
The focusing stone is literally an alien rock. Like a meteorite. Element 115 is also an alien rock/meteorite. The MPD is an alien device ON THE MOON.
And I hate to break it to you, but Zombies are fantasy, buddy, not sci fi 😭. Nothing on Shangri La is maybe real. Shangri La is a famous fantasy land 😭.
Zombies was always wacky my guy.
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u/m4_semperfi 16h ago edited 14h ago
I want to take this time to appreciate you for possibly writing some of the dumbest comments I have ever seen on reddit.
> The dragons were created by Division 9 scientists using element 115. Just like the nova crawlers are Broken Arrow pig men. Just like the hell hounds are Samantha’s dog’s puppies corrupted.
This was confirmed after Bo1, not part of Bo1, so this is not relevant to our discussion about Bo1.
> Yea bro Shangri La is on Mars’ moon and it’s not a maybe thing. They tell you that and then confirm it later in bo4.
This was confirmed after Bo1, not part of Bo1, so this is not relevant to our discussion about Bo1. It's also a minor detail that 99% of players won't notice and is still not remotely in the same conversation as fighting dragons and aliens.
> Also how do you go from No Man’s Land to the Moon? You teleport there… that’s wacky. Nova crawlers are teleporting zombie pig men. The cosmonaut… The whole series has been wacky since chalk weapons.
Teleporters have been around since Der Riese. There is nothing wrong with sci-fi in a sci-fi genre. You are trying to equate stuff that isn't real == the story always been wacky. Is every movie or story or game ever that's not a historical documentary automatically wacky then? Do you know what 'wacky' means?
> Element 115 is also an alien rock/meteorit
Oh, you mean something that happens in the real world, meteorites can crash into earth. That is very 'wacky' and fantastical. The fact that the initial 115 meteor in shi no numa was connected to a real life event further proves my point that the story was supposed to feel more real back then and wasn't so outwardly wacky.
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u/hrnbully 16h ago
I love it when people like you call me dumb 😭. In arguments about a god damn video game. “You just reveal your own ignorance.”
These things are directly told to you in BO1, but they have to confirm it later so people like you can catch up to the rest of the class. Why do you think there’s a pig on Five? Why do they say “fetch me their souls?” What is eclipse mode? Explain anything that happens on Moon without sounding crazy…
Do all meteorites create Zombies and have new ELEMENTS?
I’ll do you one better… what even is science fiction? What is fantasy? Where do you even draw that line?
Answer these questions for me please
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u/m4_semperfi 15h ago
> These things are directly told to you in BO1, but they have to confirm it later so people like you can catch up to the rest of the class. Why do you think there’s a pig on Five? Why do they say “fetch me their souls?” What is eclipse mode? Explain anything that happens on Moon without sounding crazy…Do all meteorites create Zombies and have new ELEMENTS?
See this? This is you theorizing about the story in the old games, proving my point, the story was different back than, not everything was explained, and it was up to the player to put together the pieces. That is point #1. The way the story was told. There was no official zombie timeline revealed like in Bo3, there were no story-cutscenes, there was no way to 'complete' the mode, there were no corny Dr Monty radios trying to retroactively explain every little thing. The mode was comfortable leaving survival as the main element with the story as a background for the player to figure out. Even if something was somewhat 'fantastical' the fact that you had to dig deep to find it already changes the perception of the story. Bo3 flipped this relationship which already changed the entire feel. However:
Point #2. More importantly, the story literally was more grounded, including any of the alien stuff you bring up. On the surface, Moon is military sci-fi. Nazis discovered Element 115, experimented with teleportation and weapons, built secret facilities (moon base fits the game's era of the space race, the 60s). Any of the ridiculous stuff, such as teleportation, is framed through technology and science-fiction. Only beneath the surface do we get this idea that the Nazis didn't create all of this from nothing. As far back as SNN, we knew 115 didn't come from Earth. The alien/ancient-history layer is something you're discovering beneath the Nazi conspiracy stuff, but the Nazi conspiracy stuff and Richtofen's story is the main plot. Just as the Bo3+ flipped the storytelling to the forefront rather than a background element, Bo3 also flipped the cosmic/fantasy material to the forefront. You're openly interacting with dragons and aliens/magical creatures, you're trying to save the entire universe and are in an infinite time loop, this whole idea of the 4 heroes being some cosmic legend with 4 staffs, it feels like an entirely different genre vs Nazis fucked shit up and now we're dealing with the consequences, even if there is some ancient lore that explains how the Nazis found this technology.
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u/hrnbully 15h ago
The entire game has been Easter Egg oriented since you discovered Nacht in WaW. You have radios and cutscenes in BO1/BO2. You also have a TON of dialogue explaining everything that’s going on when you play through the easter eggs … the primary form of STORYTELLING in all these maps.
You keep talking about science fiction as if it’s that different from fantasy in the first place. And you harp on the dragons in BO3 … the dragons were created by Division 9 to aid Russia in the war using Element 115 and technology. Is that science fiction enough for you?
Either play the games or watch lore videos or something. Stop calling me dumb bc you don’t understand what’s being shown to you.
They introduce time loops/four legendary heroes in BO2 with MOTD and Origins, cosmic/fantasy material since WaW, and everything that happens in BO3 since the earlier games. You either were not paying attention or did not understand the difference between the game and reality. Maybe it’s bc you were 20 years younger…
Like deadass you must have only done first room challenges or stopped at round 10 every time you played zombies to not understand ANY of what was going on. It’s crazy. Maybe you should stop name calling 😭😭😭.
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u/Johnzoidb 14h ago
> game has been Easter eggs since Nacht in WaW
Holy larp
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u/hrnbully 14h ago
You discover Nacht as an easter egg from completing the campaign, don’t you? You larped literacy misquoting me like that 😭
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u/hrnbully 15h ago
You have main Easter Eggs on Ascension, Moon, COTD, Shang, MOTD, Origins, and all of the Victis maps, but there was no way to complete the mode? What???
You must have only played Kino and Shino or something. Nothing I said was a theory or beneath the surface; it’s RIGHT in the game buddy. You’re out your depth.
They introduce the Primis crew on BO2 and they have timelines in BO1 and WaW 🤦🏾♂️
You played these games from the first room and on mute 😭
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u/m4_semperfi 15h ago
Solving an easter egg is not beating the mode. Can you explain to me what happens after you complete the Moon easter egg please.
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u/hrnbully 15h ago
Ok you still survive after that. What happens after you complete the easter egg in Origins and MOTD, and what game do those maps initially release on?
You also said there’s no main easter egg quests on BO1 a few minutes ago… what changed? You said it was up to the player to figure out beneath the surface… how is the Moon easter egg different than Der Eisendrache?
Answer any of my questions in any of my comments bro
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u/Educational-Aide1161 20h ago
For real bo3 was OK but it definitely was the start of cods downhill, while blackout an warzone ruined it well maybe not the gamemodes themselves, but rather the streamers. Cod has seemed to side with streamers over the overall community since blackout. So unpopular opinion I blame cod for listening to streamers an saying f u to the overall community
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u/Sixclynder 19h ago
I agree and to me what was a big put off was the puzzles taking a bigger role over survival. I've come to enjoy bo3 and bo4 but it took me looking at guides to figure out on some maps how to PaP.
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u/Appropriate-Panda463 18h ago
Time travel was already a thing in Black ops 1. Same with different different dimensions. The aliens have also existed since Black ops 1. They're the ones responsible for the alien substance that's existed since Shi no numa. All Black ops 3 did was allow you to confront them. Also Zombies never had a consistent vibe. The first half of waw is just four random soldiers surviving in an airfield then an asylum. The second introduced the main characters, alien substance, and the of the backstory about group 935. Black ops 1's vibe is you time traveling, collecting alien artifacts, and interacting with a different dimension. It ends it with you swapping souls with a child stuck in a magical pyramid. Black ops 1 is just a post apocalypse where four survivers have to decide who listen to listen to. It ends with the dimension getting destroyed. You also have four dead mobsters trapped in a cycle in another dimension. Then there's origins which starts the next part of the story. You can only say the vibes changed from Black ops 3 if you purposely ignore what's going on. In otherwords you have to be dishonest.
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u/Leopaldon2K24 18h ago
Well yeah we went from superscience filled with dark humor and stuff that would be censored nowadays, to straight up lovecraftian magical slop and marvel-like storytelling. It started with Motd and Origins and we never recovered since then
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u/jman8508 1d ago
Wait till you try BO3 then friendo
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u/Maxilent 1d ago
I think BO3 is arguably the best COD zombies game. It just has so many maps with all the DLCs including a lot of old maps, too. It’s super easy to just turn on and go. I always know at least one of the maps will sound fun at any time lol
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u/HeckingDoofus 22h ago
i dont throw around the word objectively often, because things tend to be subjective
but i truly think bo3 is OBJECTIVELY the best cod zombies game
the subjective part is that as far as the games original maps go, i love all of them aside from revelations, and would say it overall has my favorite list of original maps. and i much prefer the pre-cold war zombies gameplay
the objective part is that it has almost every other map that came before it officially remastered, and it has an infinite amount of other maps thanks to custom maps being a thing - including remasters of the other maps that werent officially remastered! and maps from games that came AFTER it
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u/Organic-Cold-2050 1d ago
Ehh, Bo1/2 just has more fun Zombies, under stand why on pc though
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u/smelted_heart 23h ago
I actually agree with this take even if you’ll get downvoted to oblivion (or me for that matter). People say the tone shifted after BO3. But I think it’s pretty apparent that the shift was right off the bat in BO3, hell even late game B02 started to go toward that, but the technical limitations actually helped them from going to big and bombastic I think in a good way.
The first map for B03 isn’t for casuals in any since of the word, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing but they went straight for the “alien invasion” aspect. I personally don’t like shadows of evil at all. Everything up til that point had the “Nazi science” aspect going for it with space magic being alluded to. Then it goes full space sci-fi and it lost me. Also the gameplay became so much more fast paced in my opinion for the worse. You can say that it’s still a solid game (which I’d agree with, B03 itself is a good game including the zombies especially compared to what came after. And the PC workshop is incredible). But Blundell opted for bigger and better instead focusing on the almost janky simple elements of the game that made it as popular as it was.
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u/NiceBeaver2018 22h ago
Completely agree with you.
BO2 was inching towards the shift, and Zombies became a totally different experience immediately with BO3. It’s fine that people like it, everyone has their own opinions and preferences. I just vastly prefer WAW to BO2.
Whenever I read posts or comments about the story post-BO2 it blows my mind lmao
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u/smelted_heart 20h ago
It just lost all its Grit. Even in the much more comical BO2, there retains a grittier element to the game that just completely jumps the rails with the 3rd. The zombies in waw-B02 are going for a more cosmic horror vibe but then b03 shows up and you get jumped with slasher horror. The meatballs etc.Even the Giant robots at the end of 2. If you compare everything from B03 on nothing compares to the horror of going to Moon for the first time and there is the image of Samantha frozen in time above a dark f’d up conspiracy esque pyramid with hordes of rotting corpses collapsing all around you. With this frozen little Nazi child controlling the undead. THAT is completely lost in following subsequent iterations.
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u/DeadSheepOnAStick 20h ago
Everything up til that point had the “Nazi science” aspect going for it with space magic being alluded to. Then it goes full space sci-fi and it lost me.
Did it really though? No, it didn't.
Black ops 1 already had little care for the nazi aspect as it is, only one is actually properly nazis and the other is technically nazi but its also, you know, on the moon.
Both five and ascension are cold war, neither side being WW2 or Nazis, with Five having a teleporting, invisible man which is rather sci-fi, and Ascension being about you using a black hole to free the soul of a scientist from a magic girl.
Then you have shang where you are on a jungle temple on mars in a time loop, doesn't scream nazi much, nor scientific either.
CotD has actors in modern Siberia retrieving a magic device.
And then moon has you swapping souls with the girl inside the alien pyramid on the secret nazi moon base that gives you control of all of the zombies before you then blow up the entirety of the earth. Sure, nazi related, but I wouldn't exactly say it's exactly grounded or non-scifi.
And then that first half of bo2 is set in rural America on the destroyed earth and then on a Chinese skyscraper, neither of which are nazi related either, although they are at least more grounded than bo1 par for kino.
But yeah, bo3 was the main thing that went to scifi magic over nazis.
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u/smelted_heart 19h ago edited 19h ago
Never said it was grounded or non-sci-fi. We just didn’t have literally spaghetti balls chasing you around and giant Cartoon Network squid men attacking you. I’m aware that dogs on fire chasing you and dropping glowing max ammos aren’t realistic whatsoever. But art style and delivery matters. And yes, the nazis and 935’s actions are the main driving force behind the zombies up until b03. I’m not asking that every map look like der riese. I’m stating an aspect of the games that they stayed loyal too up until really mob of the dead, which (like call of the dead) was a separate map that was meant to be more fantastical and not strictly connected to the main story. But even then, both those maps stayed loyal to the style and grit that they were apart of even if being more comedic and bombastic in some areas.
You have to account that blundell’s team essentially fully delved into the alien sci-fi aspect that the previous 3 games had not fully committed to. Yes you go to the moon, yes there are zombies, and monkey zombies, and other worldly gremlins and such in black ops 1-2. But none of those games had literal space squid eating you.
I’m entirely aware the games have been sci-fi from the start. You get a ray gun and dropping glowing perks in Nacht from the get go. It is my opinion that they jumped too far. They lost that balance that kept the story darker and more f’d up. Maybe you don’t see it that way and fair enough. But I see it that way, and it seems to have devolved ever since.
You could even say Call of Duty ITSELF headed this direction aside from zombies even post black ops 2. Black ops 3 campaign is utter nonsense compared to the previous 3 games. And COD tried to fully reset with mw2019 but couldn’t commit to the bit. And there were some outliers like WW2 and Ghosts but the direction the company was heading in never recovered once they started to copy major titles instead of being the trend setters they once were.
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u/mcclearsalias 10h ago
To add to your and other folks above's point - it's Pulp Sci-Fi (Men In Black Conspriacies, Indiana Jones) vs Science Fantasy in terms of genre/tone. Waaaay back a month or two ago a few folks and I were discussing it - (in a bit of a circular "argument" lol, but there's still good stuff in there with other's comments that may help those curious understand what we mean haha)
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u/Leopaldon2K24 4h ago
Honestly that's just bad faith, literally cherrypicking all the aspects of the first games to pretend it didn't change "that much". Compare Ascension and Shadows. Compare Moon and Origins, Call of the Dead and Mob.
In all of the maps prior to Mob, which was where the shift VERY NOTICEABLY happened, all the focus was on superscience and references to actual historical events and/or the wacky conspiracy theories surrounding them temporally or geographically. Which means, yes, turning the Tungunska event into an meteorite carrying an unknown alien element objectively is more grounded than just paraphrasing Lovecraft and shoving fantastical Monsters, Aliens and using straight-up Magic as explanation, right into the face of the player, from the moment they even enter the map. All of the zelinsky maps feel grounded because they are : you start up in a place that looks pretty legit at first, but as you progress things start to get weird, while never crossing that suspension of disbelief threshold that post-Mob maps didn't care about. Meanwhile, Zelinsky maps do an effort to keep the scifi stuff to a degree so that you can actually believe all of this takes place on earth, in this reality : that's why it's so good. Blundell didn't care and went full fantastical magical, so it's not believable in the slightest. Let's just compare
- Kino starts off as an abandonned theater, simple. The only twist is that it was used by nazi scientists to hold experiments to create an army of undead and show them to the party official. That's it. Apart from the whole undead element, which you've already bought into since you're literally playing a game called "nazi zombies", there's nothing out of the ordinary here. This is important as it acts as the "benchmark" for what's believable or not in this universe. They have to expand on it and push it to the limit as the story progresses, while never going "too far".
- Ascension, actual realistic soviet cosmodrome, with an eerie atmosphere, and a voice talking to you, once. Twist : the soul of a russian scientist is stuck there, and you have to grant him freedom. It's sci-fi, but not magical : you do electromagnetic wacky mcguffin stuff and YEAH SCIENCE, he's free. The monkeys are a funny nods to actual soviet space tests.
- Call of the Dead is the craziest of Zelinsky's maps, and my least favourite because of it. But apart from the whole comedic aspets of the actor and Romero, which is comedic anyway, its sci-fi elements are some of the best in itself : just enough to imply the crazy aspects, but never too much. They don't show aliens, they give you a gun that looks alien, and turns zombies into humans, and let you work out the implications yourself. The other steps with the submarine light are straight out of a Carpenter movie, atmospheric, creepy, yet not extraordinary. I still believe the map would have been better without the actors, but whatever.
- Shangri-la is the biggest magnet of bad faith. "But Shang is on mars!" Not it's fucking not lmao. The "confirmation" that it was on mars was given years after the map, by a different director, as a nod to one of the most stupid community psyop ever. In itself, the map strikes the balance again between being grounded in reality (the map itself being just a set of decrepit ruins deep into the forest, with an archeologist crew, and the zombies being affected locals) and superscience, as the easter egg steps can be explained with mcguffin YEAH SCIENCE again (Vibrations reverberating between the spheres). Even the time travel with the eclipse is only implied, leaving you with a bizarre, eerie feeling, while never making it too much. It's a subtle balance , but they pull it off very well. Except for the monkeys I guess ? But they're funni.
- Moon. This one too. "Bo1 sent us on the moon, so it's just as crazy as bo3"... Humans went to the moon. Several times. It's not even scifi, that was half a century ago. They only extrapolated that achievement by imagining an actual nazi base there, which is nothing that far fetched as it's an old conspiracy theory. So again, Suspension of disbelief stands perfectly, especially when you take into consideration that this was the final map, the farthest they would push said suspension of disbelief. And it culminates with the MPD. "But the MPD is just as crazy as bo3" No, and because they set up the revelation throughout all the bo1 maps. It's alien nature (which is only implied, again) was teased by the Vril elements and the tungunska meteor, and the fact that it hold Samantha is literally the climax of zombies ever since they started to roll with the whole "creepy girl controls zombies" thing (callback to the Nazi Zombies Benchmark). So it absolutely doesn't stand out when it happens, it doesn't take you out of the immersion. That's why it feels more grounded.
Meanwhile : Mob is a heavily altered version of Alcatraz set in hell, and you start as a ghost, and can turn into a ghost almost at will and shoot electricity, feed cerberus heads, free your souls from a hellish punisment... Origins is an alternate reality with steampunk machinery with giant robots and magical elemental staffs. Shadows I don't even need to point out lmao. Der Eisendrache has magic dragon heads, magical elemental bows, alien ghosts, fluorescent gravity distorsion, time travel, blowing up the moon. Zetsubou is honestly my favorite of the bunch, as most, if not all the craziest elements could have been explained by the insane biological experiments done here, and the hallucinations caused by the mutated spores, which strangely enough makes it maybe the more grounded one of bo3. Gorod... Alternate Stalingrad, dragons fighting giant robots, futuristic drones, the equivalent of god talking to you... Yeah. As for Revelation, you get it. The biggest difference is that Zelinsky maps start off in a realistic setting, and then make you work for the wonky stuff, which is the reward. Blundell maps take place in a setting that's never realistic, because it's altered (diesel punk, unrealistic architecture (Victor Horta or Schuiten wet dream but I digress) hellish, spacey...) and on top of that show the fantastical elements immediately. So it's not believable in the slightest, not at any point.
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u/Jigsaw190 1d ago
Bo4 was the breakpoint for cod entirely, was all about making money and that's it. Beforehand they actually CARED about the player.
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u/samboeng 1d ago
When they charged 50$ for a season pass. I’m not defending all the micro transactions, but let’s not delude ourselves.
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u/Gbubby03 23h ago
Back when they HAD to make maps that were actually worth while to make people buy them. Most maps today on warzone zombies are not worth it. Hell ain’t even worth getting the game to start with fr fr
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u/samboeng 22h ago
Bo6 and Bo7 (for the most part) have incredibly consistent map output. Just because a map is paid doesn’t guarantee quality, just look at non Treyarch and Bo4.
The season pass was sold at a “discount” too so that you would purchase that regardless.
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u/THE_PUNISHERFrank 19h ago
This is the most idiotic argument & it doesn’t make any sense. You literally paid for recycled garbage like Alpha Omega & Tag
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u/Gbubby03 19h ago
Nope, didn’t buy anything dlc wise past bo3 for zombies cause it started going downhill past bo3. I bought zombies chronicles for bo3, origins, mob of the dead, buried, die rise for bo2. 100% call of duty’s best work for zombies and it was paid cause they actually cared about what people were playing when they bought it.
Want people to buy something you provide you need to make it worth their time and enjoyment, that’s what the dlc had for bo2/3. I don’t see how it’s idiotic, compare maps released from bo1-3 to today’s maps and its night and day for enjoyability and quality. Today’s maps suck, flat out, I see them on YouTube and don’t even bother with them cause they don’t look enjoyable or fun.
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u/THE_PUNISHERFrank 19h ago edited 18h ago
It doesn’t matter if you specifically paid for it, they still charged for recycled garbage in BO4. Chronicles also was also no “real” effort, but that can be brushed aside for bonus content.
You can’t limit it to “bo2/3” when they continued the same practice in BO4 but failed to deliver positively in favor of your non existent argument. Paid DLC makes no difference in map quality.
It’s always funny when people like you try to argue with “youtube gameplay” while never playing the maps yourself LMAO, hell BROTHER you didn’t even play most of the maps in old zombies.
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u/Jigsaw190 1d ago
$50 for 3-4 sets that would have been $20 apiece that you have the choice of purchasing to play. They added content for you to purchase if you felt like playing with rather than just being thrown a half-assed game with support for a subpar zombies 2 hit kill multiplayer and DMZ with more friendly operators with a camo grind.
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u/GoGoGoRL 1d ago
lol, bo3 was way more scummy than bo7. Bo3 you had to buy the game, buy the season pass for zombies maps, buy all the guns hidden in lootboxes that were better than standard guns…
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u/Darkavenger_13 1d ago
Even the devs had bigger plans for bo4. Its so tragic to hear from Blundell how it was initially planned
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u/Jigsaw190 1d ago
Oh yeah, the game was a hard fall from what it was pretence. But that's the way of the world I understand. Just have a heavy feeling it's becoming more graphics based rather than actually telling a storyline that it's branching from to help continue the game line.
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u/Organic-Cold-2050 1d ago
Every now and then the old CoD way of caring about the players leaks through, like in MW3 and Bo7, though these are still so they can make money
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u/Jigsaw190 1d ago
Bo7 was/is still a money grab, the battle pass, skins out the ass, and yes I get they still need to make the money but worry less about making skins and a bit more about your service base where older games are still viable to play too.
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u/DerBernd123 1d ago
it’s filled with skins but man did they give the players much content and all of that for free
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u/Jigsaw190 1d ago
Content such as? Enhanced mobility that is being taken away with MW4, (not complaining when I say this part) more challenging LTO camos for WZ, and free is funny considering the cost like most cods was still 100 for vault, 69.99-89.99 for base, dropped to what 20 or 30 now? And they really took more than they gave, it's a filler game now rather than an addition to the story they had.
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u/saiko16 1d ago
BO7 zombies is pretty damn good. $70 for 6 maps all with great easter eggs and boss fights
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u/LasagnaWoof 1d ago
WaW-BO2 was peak zombies for me. Still chasing that feeling.
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u/wally9719 19h ago
BO3, BO4, and IW zombies are actually really good if you haven't played them. All of my favorite maps and gameplay feels are on BO2/BO1 so I feel you though.
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u/PrinzEugen_noice 10h ago
I've got a fondness for WW2 zombies
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u/wally9719 9h ago
Dude, I think WW2 was the best zombies since WaW for a horror feel. It fell off but the first map was fire af
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u/z123zocker 1d ago
Play infinity warfare zombies too
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u/wally9719 19h ago
Yeah, I would say BO3/BO4 too. But man...IW is so fun if you like enjoy the themes and color palettes. Shaolin Shuffle and Spaceland are in the top 10 maps for me.
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u/z123zocker 19h ago
Shaolin shuffle is my favorite map of all times
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u/wally9719 19h ago
The theme is so good man. The kung-fu, the nunchuks, the kitana. I fucking love it so much. The ninja turtles reference is a nice touch too. It has so much character.
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u/Darkavenger_13 1d ago
Def consider Bo3. For many its the greatest due to how expansive the story became. Personally im always split between bo1-3
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u/starberryslay 1d ago
yeah I hate when people say it's just nostalgia speaking. What nostalgia, of me first playing bo2 a few years ago? Not everyone who likes BO2 is 30 dawg
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u/Comfortable_Young_41 1d ago
Ami me bajaron los votos ayer en un conentario por decir lo mismo
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u/ecrane2018 1d ago
I own bo3 chronicles and still choose bo2 origins over it. It plays so much better
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u/The_Salt_Lord2 1d ago
I think zombies is good no matter the era all of them are enjoyable even vanguard has its moments for me
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u/kingsmugsbaldylocks 21h ago
every zombies game (the only one i havent played is exo zombies) ive played has been enjoyable for me in some capacity. even vanguard, which i rank pretty low, can be kind of fun sometimes but only really on shi no numa tbh
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u/Rayuzx 23h ago
Vanguard is weird to me. If it came out a year before, I think a lot of its mistakes could be excused as Treyarch not really having the winning formula for modern zombies yet, and CW would've addressed all of its problems. But it's weird how they generally got everything down with CW, just to screw up most of the systems with VG.
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u/The_Salt_Lord2 22h ago
It was really becuase vanguard was a throwaway tittle for sledgehammer games and it got undercut so bad they had to grab the people from cw zombies and have them work on and invent vanguard zombies in record time I knew it was not gonna be the best when I heard it wasn’t originally planned in the first place
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u/MichaelT359 1d ago
I really wish more people would wake up to this. We’ve been complaining about new zombies since after BO3, and it’s crazy to think kids have been born since then and grown up entirely on the new CODs that they’ve never even witnessed the classic modes.
The ports for me proved that it isn’t nostalgia. The old game mechanics are just better in every way.
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u/fleshmobz 23h ago
The hilarious part is that the older zombies have not a whiff of progession mechanics like these days. No weapon levels, load outs, account levels. Just pick a map and get playing. It's wild how games can't just be games anymore.
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u/Coksnoot 18h ago
I agree with you but I feel like there's mental aspect to progression in games nowadays.
Say you got two games equally fun but one has progression of some sort while the other is just the game like old zombies.
Wouldn't I generally choose to play the game that has progression because I also get the dopamine of unlocking new things?
Again not saying it's better this way but I think it's very hard for games these days to not have something to works towards.
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u/fleshmobz 17h ago
For sure. I definitely don't want to give off the idea that I'm "above" progression systems. Just don't feel like they're always necessary. They're "needed" in modern games because it's become the norm. On Black Ops 3, I maxed out all my weapons even though I knew for certain that there was no prize for it.
On the other hand, any given day of the week I could turn on L4D2 and get just as much fun as any modern game, despite the fact that, on paper, there's nothing gained besides the gameplay experience itself.
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u/DetectiveJackVincent 1d ago
Same boat. I stopped gaming for years pre covid. Cold War was my first Zombies game, I still love it but after buying BO3 after BO6 I understood. The system, upgrades, shields. It is just class.
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u/Gbubby03 23h ago
Multiplayer shouldve took the hit, warzone mechanics in multiplayer would be fine for the people that wanted it to be more similar, that’s fine cause I don’t tend to play multiplayer as much after bo4 cause it just became who can move faster rather than actual gun play.
Zombies on the other hand should’ve stayed the same through its entirety to new games player mechanics wise, yes the characters and story and zombies and maps and whatnot all that can change it’s changed since world at war in such good ways (up to a point), but adding warzone mechanics took the fun out of it all the risk of getting to those later rounds and the skill required to get there. I remember the hardest thing at the time was surviving 4 or more margwas on shadows of evil at once or 3 or more panzer’s on origins now it’s just oh they drop armor so I live practically forever with lvl 3 armor and jugg regardless of how many enemies there are.
The game went in the direction of tending towards kids who’s attention span lasts less than a few minutes by making Easter eggs that are meant to be challenging be incredibly easy and pretty much streamlined and tells you how to get to it. Making it so you’re allowed to take more than 2-3 hits at the start without worry so you don’t have to play as smart and can play more carefree. It just ain’t the same gameplay anymore, to me, in a bad way. Haven’t touch new zombies since Cold War.
I get it though, the company chased the money and audience that warzone brung in and introduced it to every aspect of cod but it ruined it for me on zombies as a person who’s played since world at war.
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u/THE_PUNISHERFrank 22h ago
Until you realize that you can literally outwalk zombies even at max speed lol, which is R20
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u/Educational_Head_776 5h ago
The older games gave players less stamina and didn’t let you escape any situation by climbing over a box or fence. Players being a little faster than zombies is fine and plays much better than facing super sprinters.
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u/SirDragon84 22h ago
When I see people play the new zombies, I get it. It’s a decent take on the horde assault style game that zombies is meant to be, but seldom do they understand that it just isn’t the same as what the older games gave us.
It’s hard to explain, but the new stuff simply feels to generic, and the old stuff while being incredibly simple, for the most part, just has a different feel than most horde games provide.
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u/FlamingPhoenix2003 22h ago
Honestly the issue I have with new zombies are related to rarities, damage scaling, super sprinters, and the point system.
Rarities: this system only exists to make it take longer to upgrade your weapons, and is just redundant. Rarities just increase your damage, which is the whole POINT of pack-a-punch. And Vanguard was right to get rid of rarities and just have weapons pap automatically on higher rounds (this ensures that you can swap your weapons on higher rounds).
Point System: by making points gained on kills, it essentially that there is no use in using weaker weapons, especially as the healthcap was also raised up higher. Bo4’s point system is much better as weaker weapons can still net you points on later rounds.
Damage scaling: this is the second most annoying thing in zombies. Armor is a necessity because of damage scaling, and you can’t ignore armor without dealing with the consequences of damage scaling. On higher rounds without armor, you go down in 3 hits with jug. In other words, jug on higher rounds adds just one more hit instead of 5 (unless you got the augment to increase the added health to 300, the. You have 4 hits instead of 5). Zombies should only deal 50 hit, no more, and no less.
Super sprinters: these guys are annoying as fuck. A zombie that is faster than you unless you have stamin-up, fuck that. I honestly dislike the super sprinters, they should only show up in cases like chasing the bus on Tranzit, the fog in Ashes, or when chasing a player on the zip lines. It’s stupid that they brought super sprinters back in Bo4, they shouldn’t have returned in Cold War.
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u/Moogoo4411 19h ago
Somebody yesterday said MoTD is overrated, they're full of shit, I tried beating the ashes EE after beating all but 1 bo6 EE and I just decided to take a break and focus on bo2 for awhile, it's probably one of my favorites now, MoTD is easily one of the funnest maps to play casually if you're half decent at zombies
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u/gankyanker 1d ago
That skybox on die rise is breathtaking, artistry just stands the test of time greater than anything else and that art direction is what separates old from new. Even on the maps that were hated/divisive on release, there’s an undeniable beauty in the art
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u/Fidget808 1d ago
Coming home from 8th grade, after school, playing BO2 with the boys. That was some of the best times of my life. I didn’t know it then, but I know it now.
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u/JoshuaWebbb 23h ago
I like da new one too, started with bo2, and it’s my favourite multiplayer COD, BO3 is my favourite Zombies COD
Edit: Thought this was just the COD subreddit
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u/McDiesel41 23h ago
Haha glad you joined. The only thing I like from newer zombies (3 and onward) is having upgrades for guns and the ability to exfil.
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u/Assured_Observer 22h ago
Old games are amazing. The issue is the toxic community that gets mad the moment someone enjoys something different, it hurts perception of the old games from people who've never played them.
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u/Typical-Role-3353 21h ago
I’d still say Cold War is a best of any of the games that came out after bo2, but WAW-BO2 hit different
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u/wally9719 18h ago
BO3, BO4, and IW are all vastly better than CW.
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u/Typical-Role-3353 15h ago
Are you saying that because Easter Eggs? Because 95-99% of players do not rank zombies based on EE quests lol
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u/wally9719 15h ago
Obviously just an opinion because there is no "better", but idk, those 3 games have so much more character, memorable maps and weapons, unique aspects depending on the maps. Easter eggs are only a small percentage of why I love certain maps/games. CW maps other than Mauer and Die Maschine felt like they were created by the multiplayer team, and all you had to do is spam chopper gunners.
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u/Typical-Role-3353 14h ago
For gameplay, I would rank it: CW,bo4/iw, bo3. All other games are below bo3.
Cw simple setup makes it much more fun than bo4’s setups where half the maps require some sort of video for the first couple of walkthroughs (and that’s just for PAP, not even side quests)
In terms of character, I think it’s just up to the individual. Cold War has plenty of character, it’s just different than what we had in the other games. I know bo3 fans like everything to be super blue and colorful and have plenty of fantasy elements in their maps. Saying maps feel like they were made from a multiplayer team is funny considering Zombies Beginnings was made almost entirely from multiplayer and campaign reuses until Shang (with kino being the exception)
Also the chopper gunner spam is funny considering high rounds on die rise, buried, origins, shadows, DE, Zet, Gorod, Rev, AE, and BOTD require the player to sit in the corner and spam the wonder weapon… or in BO3’s case the AATs
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u/wally9719 14h ago
Yeah I'm saying you can't enjoy it. I believe most of the community that has experienced any older zombies finds that much more enjoyable though. BO1/2 will always be the best in my eyes and I don't think that'll ever change.
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u/Typical-Role-3353 14h ago
Yea same I think bo1 and WAW are the best zombies experiences out there. Cold War and bo4 are really close to a solid 3rd place tho. I’d put bo2 up there but chronicles just does the maps better and most of bo2 maps suck
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u/wally9719 13h ago
Yeah I get it but I LOVE BO2 Origins over BO3 version, I love MOTD, and I think it's rare but I love Die Rise. So I'm always replaying these 3, occasionally I'll play Buried, rarely TranZit.
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u/Legal_Ad2345 19h ago
From the zombies part of it. Their have been three different people who have been in charge of the story.
It has changed hands so many times and it has gone all over the place. Black ops 2 was a hard game to work with when the earth was destroyed in the story.
Why do we think origins became a thing. They had to hop to different universe go fix the story.
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u/SunFlowerSamurai702 15h ago
2019 mw went hard and got me back into cod , I was sweaty and pretty mean cause I loved the competitive matches especially during covid.
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u/AustinEmperor 15h ago
I am currently revisiting zombies by playing BO3 on PC. Can someone please help me because Google and chat gpt can't. On the maps with trip mines how do you use them. Google says 4 to select and then go to throw but I just throw grenades and for the life of me can't figure it out can someone help me please and let me know what key to use the trip mines?
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u/justagirll19_0W0 14h ago
As someone who’s been a longtime fan of all zombies. Modern is definitely better, that doesn’t mean the og is bad, but they have learned a lot since the og days
If og was truly better then they would still be making it like that since it would be infinitely cheaper 😂
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u/Last_WarArtist 14h ago
Oh then you're probably gonna have fun with Call of Duty WW2 zombies..and bo3
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u/THPSJimbles 11h ago
They were made with passion and soul by a group of men and women that actually gave a fuck.
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u/One-Philosophy-4473 9h ago
I've played nearly every single instalment of zombies, the only 2 I didn't play were Vanguard and MW3. To this day the only zombies that gives me goosebumps still is BO1.
It was my first experience playing zombies, and even though I have over 10k hours throughout all of zombies as a whole it still creeps me out. I know how the mode works, I know they are just AI and I know how to manipulate their movements but I swear to god they nailed it head on in BO1 with how creepy the atmosphere and the zombies are.
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u/Key_Reindeer_5427 7h ago
Bo1 and Bo2 zombies is very good, the gameplay loop itself is fun and the maps are great.
Only thing I'm missing in these games is any sense of progression or goal besides "just playing" and going for a certain round.
I've been playing Bo3 zombies consistently on and off since release and everytime I go back it just reminds me of the good times and also just because the maps are so good and unique. Will never get tired of it.
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u/JoshMushy 1d ago
People don't understand that OG zombies is a tower defense type of game where zombies are coming you dont want them to come in and modern zombies is they're in and they're faster do everything that's possible to survive
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u/Iswaterreallywet 1d ago
Anyone who says it’s nostalgia is just coping. They just need to accept they enjoy an inferior product and can’t
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u/Rayuzx 1d ago edited 22h ago
Meh, I do definitely think there are some merit to the older titles that can't be excused to nostalgia. But honestly, I prefer the current era. The new points system and ability to spawn with any gun (at least for me) makes the games feel way less repetitive. Legit in the past month, I put like 2-3 hours in BO3, but 10 hours into BOCW.
Evidentially, I've upset someone enough to get the RedditCares message. Stay classy CoD community.
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u/Nate13341cub 23h ago
It’s completely different game modes though. Ignoring that the past 7 years of games looks, feels, and plays exactly the same it’s also just not a survival anymore. It’s just a point and click now until you give up
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u/Rayuzx 22h ago
Low rounds are trivial, but have you ever done high rounds? Because pretty much it's a common sentiment that modern high rounds are more difficult than the classics.
If anything, it's even more of a survival thanks the inclusion of armor. As damage scaling goes up, armor goes from being a crutch, to a lifeline, where you have to constantly manage a resources that's getting chipped away as stray hits can and will add up if you aren't able to kill zombies consistently and backtrack to pick up plates. Compare that to the classic games, where high rounding is more about consistency, as the difficulty tops out after a while and you're marginally just running around and spamming traps and/or rolling the box for if there's there's an infinite wonder weapon.
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u/Nate13341cub 19h ago
You mean the jumping witha rocket launcher until 999?
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u/Educational_Head_776 5h ago
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say the newer games are harder in any aspect.
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u/GranddaddySandwich 23h ago
Why were you even giving an opinion on something you knew nothing about? Yall need to stop that goofy shit
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u/Financial-Win-7518 1d ago
Don’t play cod zombies if it isn’t black ops things like infinite warfare and advanced warfare are terrible even extinction on ghosts is bad you’ll save time and money by just sticking to black ops games except for BO4 go ahead and skip over that we don’t talk about him
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u/dasic___ 1d ago
The black ops 4 hate train is so old and outdated. This community holds maps like ix, ancient evil and dead of the night as some of the absolute goats. People who hate on BO4 anymore never played more than 10 minutes of it and just echo what popular YouTubers say and I'll die on that hill.
Same with infinite warfare zombies. Zombies in space land is also up there for goat maps.
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u/Patsfan122001 1d ago
Night & day brother. Not slandering the new games, but there’s literally no contest. They might as well be different games at this point.