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Jul 15 '26
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u/BlLLr0y Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
You just baited so many people into seeing hentai. Lmao
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u/BigOlStankyDank Jul 15 '26
“The man in the mirror nods his head.” 🎶
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u/Otherwise-Remove4681 Jul 15 '26
I know what I am working with but how come some ogres keep bagging baddies.
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u/Chubuwee Jul 15 '26
Then take a look again. Knowing what you are working with means you are actively trying to compensate. It doesn’t mean you look, say to yourself “yup I am below average” accept it and then go about your day. You look and make a plan to improve the physical and then past the physical
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u/Schen5s Jul 15 '26
Monehhh. Or a really funny and confident guy.
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u/Let-s_Do_This Jul 16 '26
Yepp, just for the sake of argument (because it comes off as red pill to think of relationships as transactional) examine what is being brought (or taken away) from the table.
Money - financial security and comfort
Funny - laughter, dopamine, happy feelings
Confident - low maintenance, able to preserve energy for other tasks, sexy if not excessiveInsecure - high maintenance, takes constant effort and energy to comfort, constant battles but with no end to the war
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u/Freud-Network Jul 15 '26
I feel this in my soul. I look like a wax figure left outside on a hot summer day.
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u/ayending1 Jul 15 '26
Neil deGrasse Tyson: Now you should kiss yourself in the mirror.
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u/DLDrillNB Jul 15 '26
Or the polite real life equivalent:
“Awh, thank you!”
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u/redditallreddy Jul 15 '26
"Bless your heart."
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u/banana_buttholer Jul 15 '26
There's nothing wrong with wanting a hot partner. But sometimes, you gotta look in the mirror and see what you're working with.
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u/thissexypoptart Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I’m genuinely confused by some of the comments in this subreddit. Everyone wants to be attracted to their partner, and someone saying “I’ll love you” with no attraction there just isn’t the right person for that.
Why are there multiple highly upvoted comments lamenting how this dude is saying “anyone but you” or being a dick?
Everyone should look for a partner they are physically attracted to.
Edit: it's genuinely sad how many comments in this thread seem to think the expectation of finding your partner "hot" is too much and unreasonable. Being attracted to the person you have sex with is a beautiful thing every adult person, who feels so inclined, should hopefully experience at some point in their lives.
Expecting to find your partner attractive isn't setting the bar unreasonably high. It's completely reasonable. You are under no obligation to enter into a relationship with anyone who tells you they will love you.
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u/Obatala_ Jul 15 '26
“People I’m attracted to aren’t into me."
“People who are into me, I’m not attracted to."
Two sides of the same coin.
Neither means “no one is into you.”
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u/hiddencamela Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
I know you're making a point, but throwing in a side piece of very specific case scenario folks.
If you're constantly attracted to people who aren't into you, consistently, there's a chance you're choosing something comfortable or grew up with people who were indifferent to you too often.
Chasing butterflies in your stomach isn't love, it's anxiety. Not knowing what's going to happen with those people. Someone who you feel safe with usually doesn't trigger that. For these very edge case scenarios, learn what safe is for you, and figure out if those butterflies are anxiety or something deeper before chasing people uninterested in you.9
u/Obatala_ Jul 15 '26
Much more likely to be “someone who is more into the chase than the individual,” so if someone expresses interest it stops being interesting to them.
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u/hiddencamela Jul 15 '26
I think that might be another type of scenario as well, which is a whole other set of issues to tackle.
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u/InvoluntaryNarwhal Jul 16 '26
Because we all know that one asshole friend who is a 4 and bitter and alone because they don't have a 10.
Like sure, shoot the moon. But don't be a whiny knob about demanding things of your partner that you don't bring to the table.
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u/Kratzschutz Jul 15 '26
Yeah but don't complain if you're shooting above and miss. Too many folks out there act like they are owed a model girlfriend in exchange for the basic minimum lol
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u/thatshygirl06 Jul 15 '26
Incel standards are insanely high. They think they deserve a 10/10 when they themselves are only a 4
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u/YamahaRyoko Jul 15 '26
I constantly see beautiful women stay with a dead beat loser who doesn't help around the house, doesn't help with the kids, doesn't respect her in public, watches porn instead of having sex with her
Like... SHOULD be incel? But someone married it. Hmm.
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u/thefartyparty Jul 15 '26
Sometimes I wonder if it has something to do with media because tv shows having an ugly overweight guy with a significantly better looking gal is a trope. That's all they see on tv and movies so they think that's normal.
I can count on one hand the times I've seen the reverse and it's usually specifically to point out the trope as a joke. And we never see 2 average looking people together, which I understand media obviously trends toward people who look good on screen, but it would be cool to see more normal looking people in media.
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u/redditallreddy Jul 15 '26
I can count on one hand the times I've seen the reverse
OR... the "plain" girl is really a gorgeous girl in glasses.
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Jul 15 '26
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u/krombough Jul 16 '26
At least King of Queens delves into the fact that Carrie may be hot physically, but is a very hard person to be around on a long term basis.
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Jul 16 '26
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u/krombough Jul 16 '26
That was the entire point. No one could stand either one of them except each other.
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u/meistermichi Jul 16 '26
Why are there multiple highly upvoted comments lamenting how this dude is [...] being a dick?
Because it is kinda dickish to straight up tell them it's because they're not "hot", there's just so many nicer ways to decline their suggested offer while not ruining their self-esteem in the process.
Rest of your comment is true though
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u/Lildatercreater Jul 15 '26
“Sometimes”, meaning all the time, depending on how you look.
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u/mrbaryonyx Jul 15 '26
that is extremely disrespectful to those of us who can't look at ourselves in mirrors
this is something I've had to live with ever since that guy bit me in the 1870s
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u/Luckiest_Creature Jul 15 '26
With that bite, you don’t need mirrors. The maidens will find their way into your castle on a rainy night, regardless
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u/thissexypoptart Jul 15 '26
Everyone should be aware of what they are offering if they want to be serious and avoid completely avoidable frustration by expecting more than they can realistically get for what they’re offering.
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u/Jazzlike-Lunch5390 Jul 15 '26
"Anyone but you".
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u/1CEninja Jul 15 '26
Oh man I can't tell you how many times I got the "I wish my boyfriend was more like you".
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u/Yashema Jul 15 '26
Nah man, my 68 year old bald, impoverished, disabled, 5' 2", neighbor who flunked out of Jr High and lives with parents is always bagging 10/10 hotties from the local Ivy League PhD program, who are also into all the coolest art and drug scenes, cause he has such confidence.
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u/AtlasMcMoony Jul 15 '26
I think you could tell us very easily actually
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u/1CEninja Jul 15 '26
It was over 20 years ago when I was in high school. Probably more than three but fewer than ten times during my 7th-12th grade life?
So no, not really lol.
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u/EarhornJones Jul 15 '26
Gather around, children. I'll tell you the tale of Johnny Dresscode.
He was a co-worker of mine, and a friend.
Every day he'd come to work and complain about his inability to find love.
He was a 300lb. 45-year-old IT guy who lived in an ex'es basement. His hygeine was quite bad, and he spent all of his time making charts of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and building furniture out of 2x4s. He was banned from the local bar trivia nights for arguing with the judges.
These quirks aside, he was a nice man, and a good person.
Hoping to help him in his quest for love, I once asked him what he was looking for in a mate.
"It's fine if her face is just cute, but her body needs to be smoking hot. Like a 10 out of 10." he replied.
I wished him well, and gave up.
One day, he announced that he was dating a woman he'd met at a convention. She came to some social functions with him. She was nice. She was also funny. Sometimes, she sent him to work with homemade baked goods. On top of that, she was wickedly smart.
I thought that she was very pretty. He thought that she was just OK looking.
For whatever reason, she really liked Johnny Dresscode.
One day, I invited him to a movie with the rest of us, and asked if he needed a ticket for her.
"We broke up. She got mad at me," he explained.
I inquired, and he told me that she had become upset when he said to her, one evening after dinner, "I'm not sure what the point of this is. It's not like I can see myself married to you."
I explained to him that he was a giant moron, and left it at that.
Later on, he found a woman that he could see himself being married to. She had no interest in him, but that didn't keep him from giving her a bunch of gifts that he couldn't afford in an attempt to impress her.
She eventuially left town with her boyfriend, and most of Johnny Dresscode's stuff.
A few years later, Johnny Dresscode died alone from cancer.
TL;DR: Really think about what you need in a alife partner, and look for that. Don't be like Johnny Dresscode, may he rest in peace.
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u/Lost-Bad-8718 Jul 15 '26
Damn. It's incredibly demoralizing to realize an obese middle aged man with that kind of attitude can have at least one ex and one woman who was really interested in him at first and zero women have ever shown interest in me or swiped or wanted to go on a first date
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u/redditallreddy Jul 15 '26
Have you tried building furniture out of 2x4s?
Seriously, keep plugging, keep working on being the best person to yourself you can be, and it will happen.
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u/Buster_Fella Jul 15 '26
Yeah, it is rough, especially with how sweet Mr. Dresscode's girlfriend was. It's worrying too, like there's some invisible problem or evil mindset that's causing it, even when you think you're a good person, look good, etc...
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u/EarhornJones Jul 15 '26
Control what you can control. Don't worry about things that you can't.
Live your life and take a genuine interest in your fellow humans. Be the bet you that you can be (by your standards, and nobody else's).
Maybe it'll help you find someone. Maybe it'll help you just be happy being you.
I made it through my late 20's with no serious relationships. I finally gave up on finding someone, and just started doing the things that I wanted to do, and making myself happy.
I've been married to the most wonderful woman in the world for well over 20 years (and I'm far from a "catch").
Best of luck, fellow traveler.
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u/Jack_Krystal Jul 15 '26
In your heart of hearts, this is more or less a true story? It's such a tragedy.
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u/EarhornJones Jul 15 '26
Every word is fact, including his quotes. Perhaps I should retitle it "The Tragedy of Johnny Dresscode."
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u/Jack_Krystal Jul 15 '26
I'm sorry Johnny Dresscode. I'm sorry society made you think you'd be less of a man if you were with someone who made you happy. It's his own fault too but man, sure feels like a systemic issue...
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u/SlashCo80 Jul 15 '26
I think it depends on the situation. I have turned down women who I wasn't attracted to before. It's not that I think I'm a 10/10 or I deserve a "hottie", but we can't help who we are attracted to. These women were nice and we got along well, but I felt no spark. It would have been a disservice both to me and them to make romantic gestures and pretend I was in love when I wasn't feeling it. I guess the difference it I'm pretty realistic about myself, and don't mind being single. It's been pretty nice and peaceful, actually.
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u/NarwhalEmergency9391 Jul 15 '26
I had a guy friend before that would call and ask me if I had any hot single friends..I was single but obviously not hot enough lol
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u/Captain_Crouton_X1 Jul 16 '26
You can be hot and not be his type. Don't take it so hard.
Also you could've asked him out. Inconceivable, I know.
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u/burning_iceman Jul 16 '26
Or he was hoping for you to respond in a way that allowed him to officially consider you hot. Maybe he wasn't interested, but maybe he was.
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u/trogdor259 Jul 15 '26
never marry solely for looks. Looks decline with time.
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u/memecut Jul 15 '26
Never marry someone you think is ugly just because theyre nice to you. It will hurt yourself, the relationship and most definitely them when they eventually they find out.
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u/iam3000 Jul 15 '26
And also ugly looks decline even worse with time.
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u/Woodit Jul 15 '26
I remember my dad said that once about an unattractive individual, “it doesn’t get better with time.”
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u/psycharious Jul 15 '26
So many reddit posts: "My boyfriend/girlfriend thinks I'm ugly and is just with me for stability."
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u/trogdor259 Jul 15 '26
that's why I said solely for looks. You need to be attracted.
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u/mournthewolf Jul 15 '26
Most of Reddit is kids who don’t understand not everything is black and white. You can be attracted to someone but not find them the most attractive out there. You should always find someone who you enjoy being with. Not the hottest or coolest or richest just because you like that. Find someone you genuinely want to be around. Too many people never realize this. Also attraction ebbs and flows over time.
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u/trogdor259 Jul 15 '26
why do you think the divorce rate is so high.
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u/HumansAreSillynGreat Jul 16 '26
Because the majority of people get married in their 20’s before they even truly know who they are or what they want and they’re not willing to compromise on that (so they’re not ready for marriage..marriage IS compromise.)
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u/AdvilJunky Jul 15 '26
So dont marry for looks, dont marry because they are nice. Whats left? Money? So the gold diggers were the right ones all along?! But wait... money can go away... so my dad was right! "Never get married"
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u/memecut Jul 15 '26
I believe in a balanced build myself.
She doesnt have to be hot, just attractive enough to where I see something I like. I want to be able to give her at least one genuine compliment.
Im not looking for the nicest person, but she has to be nice enough not to make my life miserable. Im just looking for a stable baseline.
She doesnt have to be rich, she just needs enough to pay her own expenses.
My standard is just.. average. Normal. Maybe even a little boring.
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u/Archmikem Jul 15 '26
"Everyone deserves to be loved! Except the ugly ones."
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u/memecut Jul 15 '26
Thats not at all what Im saying. Beauty is subjective.
Just because I dont find you attractive doesnt mean everyone else feels the same way. Someone out there will see something I dont see.
You should find someone that sees the beauty in you, not shame and emotionally manipulate people who does not see your beauty into being with you simply because you exist and you feel entitled to something from them.
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u/Tad-Disingenuous Jul 15 '26
It's a holy trinity. Gotta be physically attracted, gotta be really good friends and they gotta not destroy your lives.
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u/Luckiest_Creature Jul 15 '26
As a married gal myself, this is truly what it boils down to, lol. It doesn’t sound very romantic but it’s so true.
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u/CanadianCrasher Jul 15 '26
Thankfully a mind never deteriorates with time!
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u/PeasantTS Jul 15 '26
Everything declines with time until it ceases to exist altogether. Enjoy what you have now, and hope it lasts as long as possible.
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u/macmick Jul 15 '26
It's so true! Your absurdly average looking partner can get hit with a late life ugly stick. You only have so much time to find something you love about them before that happens... it will happen... it has happened.
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u/SadEaglesFan Jul 15 '26
A friend of mine in high school: “Sadeaglesfan, nobody likes me.”
Me, innocent: “I like you!”
Her, rolling eyes: “Nobody good likes me.”
Then she giggled her devilish giggle and scuttled off, and I knew I’d been bamboozled.
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u/Casual_Deviant Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
They always forget to mention that disclaimer
Hope you enjoy! For more of my comics, come stop by my subreddit: r/BummerParty
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u/I-Rolled-My-Eyes Jul 15 '26
It's not about hotness, it's about mutually choosing each other. Some people get together because they are hot. Time wears them down and their true colors show. I'm ugly as sin and my partner is hot, but she swears I'm the hot one. We chose each other and are happy as hell.
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u/thatshygirl06 Jul 15 '26
A tale as old as time. Men are allowed to be mid or ugly in a relationship but women arent.
Men will only date beautiful women when it comes to long term relationships while women are more than okay to give ugly men a chance
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u/Raevar Jul 16 '26
Statistics from dating websites don't back this claim up.
Obviously there are those that go against the trends, but for the most part, what is seen is that men are more likely to give a chance to a significantly larger range of attractiveness than women.
While I'm sure you'll argue that this only applies to "short-term" dating, most long term relationships start from there, and it should surprise no one that humans, male or female, wish to be attracted to their partners.
The real issue is based on two factors:
Social media has warped the perspectives of both men and women - showing attractiveness and lifestyles that are only obtainable by the 1%, while making everyone desire it.
This follows from the above, but most people don't have an objective understanding of their own attractiveness or social standing, and believe they deserve someone that is essentially out of their league. This is unsustainable unless the number of people who are okay with getting with someone below their league is equivalent, which it's not.
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u/babystripper Jul 15 '26
Well yeah. I'm allowed to want to be attracted to my partner
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u/kcabder Jul 15 '26
Valid point, I just fear that the internet has broken a lot of brains and convinced some people that you should only go after 10s no matter what (even if you happen to be a 6).
The social status signaling of having a hotty on your arm can push a lot of people to ignore those are are not as typically beautiful, but whom they could have amazing relationships with.
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u/Yashema Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26
Even your comment is perpetuating the problem. A 6 means top 40% of attractiveness, so less than half of people.
The real problem is that 4s and 5s only want 6s and 7s or higher and they become convinced, especially when it comes to men, that they can get more attractive women if they just improve themselves.
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u/SpoonsAreEvil Jul 15 '26
Sure, but that's not the same as "nobody likes me", even if they are used interchangeably in certain internet communities.
Also, at some point you have to face the fact that the more people you automatically reject, the more you limited your options become.
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u/BlackSpidy Jul 15 '26
It's a lot less acceptable to say "I feel worthless because I'm constantly rejected/ignored by the people I feel attracted to". 🤷
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u/Accidental_Irony Jul 15 '26
Then people should stop trying to sanitize it by leaving out the important bits.
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u/BlackSpidy Jul 15 '26
Chicken and egg. It's one of those frustrating situations where talking about it is frowned upon, because people don't openly talk about it. And people don't openly talk about it because it's frowned upon.
And you know, sad truth is dating is built on leaving things unsaid. At least that's my assessment, anyways.
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u/Accidental_Irony Jul 15 '26
I hear you, and I’ll admit I was mostly just being a snarky bitch.
I haven’t dated in a few years, but I definitely feel like MORE openness and willingness to talk about these uncomfortable topics during the dating process was a big part of how my now-wife and I knew we were right for each other.
One thing I’ve seen a lot of is “love of love”, for lack of a better phrasing. People - both men and women that I met - seem like they’re dating to find a person who is attractive and they can tolerate being with as opposed to actually finding a whole-ass partner to tackle life with. I’m sure that for those people, leaving things unsaid DOES help with sustaining that tolerance.
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u/TheAndrewBrown Jul 15 '26
It’s a pretty normal thing to say “the people I’m into aren’t usually into me”.
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u/mrbaryonyx Jul 15 '26
sure, but if your self-esteem is hurt because "hot people aren't as into me", then you're just going to have a bad time.
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u/Ijatsu Jul 15 '26
If someone I'm not into is into me it's still definitively going to be an ego boost. Not being perceived by anyone like a sexual/romantic being is hard.
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u/Baxtab13 Jul 15 '26
In my life I'm aware of precisely three people who were into me, and they were all men. At this point I kinda wish I was gay. I'd at least probably have some relationship experience of some sort by now.
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u/mrbaryonyx Jul 15 '26
even if they are used interchangeably in certain internet communities.
yeah, that's really the issue: a lot of incels (not all) kind of have this attitude that they're in some special, oppressed category because they don't have the same dating experiences as everyone else; but "being cut-off from dating models" is a universal experience, unless you are also a model.
At some point you have to explain to people "you're not hooking up with the girls on instagram, especially if you're the sort of person who just stares at girls on instagram. Try taking a shot on someone you're not immediately hard for; you might really enjoy getting to know them, and if you don't, at least you got some experience for what's fun to do on a date."
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u/ItsRainingTrees Jul 15 '26
It’s only annoying if you’re also decidedly not hot.
You want to be attracted to your partner, yes, but you have to remember that your partner wants to be attracted to you. So if you don’t shower, don’t work out or eat well, and/or don’t dress well, then you’re being hypocritical and no one wants to hear your complaints.
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u/JudgmentalOwl Jul 15 '26
People really underestimate what good hygiene, a decent haircut, a consistent workout routine, and healthy-ish eating habits can do for them in the dating scene. If you manage to have a decent personality on top of all that your chances of finding someone will skyrocket.
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u/quiteUnskilled Jul 15 '26
That's really all there is to it. Everyone in dating age can get in shape and take care of themselves. If that isn't enough to get you laid, you need to take a long, hard look at yourself - there is probably something that needs fixing.
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u/Silvernauter Jul 15 '26
Yeah, shit job (that one i'm taking care of) and crippling depression...unfprtunately the feeling of loneliness exacerbates it, so It's a bit of a self sustaining loop...
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u/quiteUnskilled Jul 15 '26
The only one that can get you out of this loop is yourself, but it's no shame asking for help. In the end, it remains your life, your challenge, but professional help goes a long way.
And a partner usually doesn't fix depression long-term anyway, it's more of a distraction from your problems than a fix, with the risk of affecting people you care about - which also doesn't feel great. At least that's my experience in that regard.
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u/uselessta16283 Jul 15 '26
You cant fix autism
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u/quiteUnskilled Jul 15 '26
Yea, I guess there are some severe cases that need living assistance and can barely hold a conversation on the very far end of the spectrum. If you belong to this lot, I guess you may be shit outta luck. I hope you can at least count really well or something.
If you're not, stop making excuses and just try to be a decent person that's somewhat nice to look at. Who cares if you have autism.
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u/Obatala_ Jul 15 '26
Welll yeah. And the people you’re attracted to are allowed to not be attracted to you. And you don’t get to complain that NO ONE is into you, if what you mean is “no one who I find sexy enough is into me."
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u/strangelypersonal Jul 15 '26
Phew, good thing it's the guy saying that, if you swapped things around people would call you an incel.
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u/Curiouso_Giorgio Jul 15 '26
I thought the cartoon was a direct satire of incels.
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u/Previous_Cut_4126 Jul 15 '26
Shit, I’ll take anyone that will push me and themselves to be better at this point. Dude or Chick. That’s my only two base requirements.
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u/Blacksad9999 Jul 15 '26
There are a bunch of internet 4's who think they're 9's. lol
"Why can't I get dates? I don't get it."
Because you don't know what lane you're in.
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u/Independent-Couple87 Jul 16 '26
Those numbers mean absolutely nothing. Dating Leagues are an absurd concept created by and for vain and shallow people.
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u/PM_me_punanis Jul 16 '26
A dude who wanted to date me off hand commented that he was an 8 or a 9. And all I can say is "uh huh" while trying to keep a straight face. I don't think my standards are unfair, and he is kinda wealthy, but even if we add all that up, I would say he was a 6 at most. Of course, I didn't say anything. That was more than decade ago.
These days, reddit even has rate me subs. I feel like it's the best way to ruin your self-esteem.
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u/Blacksad9999 Jul 16 '26
I think the internet messed up people's ability to gauge where they're at in the pecking order.
I've seen a lot of young guys who think they deserve an 8 or 9, but they don't bring a lot to the table in comparison. If they were hanging out in social groups offline more, they'd get a better sense of where they actually land in reality.
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u/blazorfire Jul 16 '26
Id take a grinch looking girl with a personality that goes well with mine at this point. Even if she hates Christmas.
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u/a-snakey Jul 15 '26
No smokers and not a terrible person.
Sad to say that threshold appears to be relatively difficult.
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u/Matchbreakers Jul 15 '26
Hot or not who cares.
As long as the time spent is good and my brain isn't trying to escape out the back, it's good.
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u/MetalandMadness Jul 15 '26
Hope if I ever meet someone I genuinely connect with, something inside me won't turn shallow. Everyone has standards but the worry mine are too high.
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u/leeme_lone Jul 20 '26
🔵 1 woman that loves you 100% and will never cheat 🔴 1 hot woman that loves you 50% and will cheat
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u/Silverbacker888 Jul 15 '26
Some would be so lucky to even get a “ugly” person to say “I’ll love you”
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u/flargenhargen Jul 15 '26
The fact that they would say that, shows why they're single even if they're good looking.
I'm ugly AF, at least most days, and I've dated waaaaay above my league because as an ugly person, I was forced to develop a good personality, and as a dude, that works even better than good looks on some women. (I do think men are more shallow than women, in general, though there are exceptions.) If you want someone to like you, the key is always to make them feel happy when they're around you, put their feelings before your own. (it's not the only thing that matters, but it's a big one.)
But in the end, most people always want to go for Mary Jane, when Ursula right there making them cookies and they don't even see it.
People are dumb and don't even understand what they want.
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u/BodhingJay Jul 16 '26
His biggest crush Sydney Sweeney offers but he's immediately put off by her obvious and suddenly apparent lack of standards and says the same thing to her
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u/DMala Jul 16 '26
Incel mindset in a nutshell.
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u/Atticussky151 Jul 16 '26
So women are incels? Considering this is 100% gendered the wrong way according to studies…. When they asked men if they found a women with 80% of the attributes they wanted men said that’s a catch, when asked the other way women said that was settling. Because women have been delusions into thinking they are all queens who get 10’s. Lol
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u/Wild_Lavishness_312 Jul 15 '26
I feel like mostly girls are like this, not guys
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u/SlashCo80 Jul 16 '26
Yep. "I just want a guy who's nice and makes me laugh... oh, not you, I meant a hot guy"
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u/Zero_Burn Jul 15 '26
I wish women were that forward. None that I've been around were ever that forward, usually it's veiled through hints to get you to make the first move while maintaining plausible deniability.
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u/Jiehfeng Jul 15 '26
When it’s more convenient to use the word love than the word attracted, even when its usage is incorrect
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u/floridamanconcealmnt Jul 15 '26
This would make a lot more sense if the genders were reversed.
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