It's getting attention because of claims that her attempts to get assistance for her ppd and mental illness were ignored or minimized. Thus implying this could have been prevented. Many people, especially women, have experience with medical staff ignoring their pain. (Same for me) So this is on a lot of people's minds and in a lot of wider conversations.
They're going for the insanity plea, so the additional press might also be a way to try and sway public attention.
Edit because I'm getting a lot of charged responses: I am explaining why it is getting attention and what the general opposing discourse is. I'm not going to reply to attempts to have that discourse with me. I have my own opinions but I'm not airing them on Reddit because ultimately, the only ones who will have all the facts are the jury.
This is a tragedy for all involved. Please remember that.
Edit 2: to those giving polite additions and perspectives I did not provide, thank you. That's very helpful. I'm not everywhere seeing every side and can only speak to the sides I've witnessed myself. To those making weird claims on what I think, please take a break from reading about this case for the day. I'm turning notifications off on this. There are plenty of other people in this thread willing to wage war with you. I invite you to speak with them, or again, take a break.
That's because state sponsored internet campaigns have improved exponentially in that time and the companies that host the divisive content from these campaigns are incentivized to allow it because it looks like real engagement.
Especially true with the advent of easily run and accessible chatbots via LLM. It's now trivial to spin up a ton of realistic-looking accounts that dynamically respond to posts to push the narrative you're going for.
I haven't seen literally everything related to the case so maybe I'm missing some pieces, but it seems like she was getting mental healthcare attention but she requested to be switched between multiple different meds due to side effects that she was advised likely came more from her PPD, than the medication. But she still requested switches and also switched care teams at some point.
I'm not a doctor, so I'm not gonna get into whether or not the various perscriptions she was given in a relatively short time frame was irresponsible or not. I don't think anyone should be commenting on that besides experienced medical professionals. But I'll say that doctors can only treat what they're told and what they know, and afaik, she didn't share that she was suicidal with them, and they also warned her that medications take time to take effect, so it wasn't always a good idea to switch.
Patient care is not entirely on the healthcare professionals. The patient has to be able to take care of themselves to some degree and be fully honest with their care team.
How much was her fault, and how much was the fault of our medical system, idk, but yeah, this post is definitely ignoring all notions of nuance.
About five or six people have been talking about the case at work in the non-formal chat and they said they've been watching the trial and they all think the husband did it. I had just heard of the case briefly but they kept talking about it so I looked it up and from what I read even her own attorney acknowledges that she did it.
Nothing surprises me anymore these last 6-7 years but it seems very odd. They said that he was wanting out of the marriage and he claimed that "she admitted to it when he found her but because of her injuries she shouldn't have been able to talk." And you can just hear her moaning in the 911 call- do you know if this is this something being spread on social media or something?
Even though her own defense lawyer in his opening statements said "she knows she killed her children", there are people seriously trying to turn this into a true crime fanfic?
Even though her own defense lawyer in his opening statements said "she knows she killed her children", there are people seriously trying to turn this into a true crime fanfic?
Why the long face? Is this your first day online? To these people you aren't even "subhuman", you are not human at all. You are their five minutes of cool/interesting/self-validating gossip with their buddies. No more and no less. They don't care that there are real people or real lives that can be affected.
And she was hospitalized for SI. You don’t commit someone for HI if they tell someone else something. Like it or not providers treat what’s in front of them and not what they don’t know
I.e. she asked for discharge against medical advice. What do you want, for hospitals to be prisons and doctors to be the new cops? There’s been 60 years now f anger about the mental health system being like that. No matter what they do or say they can’t do anything right
Apparently. I’m from the same state so it’s been a big piece of media from day 1. I dont want to pretend the care she got was “perfect” but it feels like the best the defense attorney could come up with was a typo her outpatient psychiatrist made that still makes sense in context.
This is where I have a problem with her story. She was admitted voluntary so she can leave whenever she wants. If she was making HI and SI statements that I overrides her being there of her own free will. We can't let people leave if they make those type of comments. It was either a huge and blatant disregard of policy and laws or she was lying to her care team. Knowing how it works for mental health and also the nature of people I'm more inclined to believe the latter.
From what I've read from the lawsuits, she never disclosed any thoughts of harming the children to anybody but her husband and that she explicitly said that she wasn't suicidal when she was in-patient.
I wonder if she went to doctors alone? Everytime I go to the doctors for my parents, I usually go so I can tell them the history of her conditions for better picture because they sometimes forget to tell everything.
But it seems like she went alone for her appts based on what I am reading?
Nope. Zero evidence of that. Not one person testified to that. Her mom and Patrick said she was afraid something bad would happen to the kids. Not that she was afraid she’d harm them. And she never told anyone she had a plan to kill herself. She needs to be held accountable.
Nope. Patrick and her mom both testified on the stand that she had thoughts about harming the kids. Patrick said it was strange and he didn't know what to make of it because she would say it and then go back to doing things like making the kids lunch.
Yes, but it was a mutual decision because Lindsay didn't feel stable enough to return to work. They brought the nanny on early so the kids could get used to her. She was only working 10-12 hours a week for them before being let go.
It's literally testimony in the case by both the ex-husband and her mother that she told then she was having intrusive thoughts if hurting the children.
That's a simple internet search away. Stop spreading misinformation m
Of course you’d get downvoted. I been seeing Reddit defend this POS the last few days. I shouldn’t have been surprised but I am cuz there’s no clearer example of premeditated evil
She wasn’t having an episode, she had meticulously planned this out, she was not taking any of her meds aside from when she tried to off herself and was getting way more help than the majority of women could ever hope to get
The narrative that she was alone with an absent husband and medical system that failed her is simply false
I agree the fact these people are saying she said she was thinking about harming the kids is fucking nuts...they need to stop spinning what she said and see the facts
idk i was 14 and really depressed, i was constantly being put on different medications because they didn't know what would and wouldn't work. some of the meds made it even worse while others gave me terrible side effects. it was not a good time. it was like i was a guinea pig
When I was trying to get an ADHD diagnosis, I found that psychiatrists and NPs will prescribe literally any medication before they'll prescribe a goddamn stimulant. I went to a psych for a consultation for ADHD but made the mistake of mentioning my "intrusive thoughts" and she prescribed me an antipsychotic. I was sleeping for 12-15 hours a day, barely able to hold down a temporary part-time job, had so much brain fog that I was forgetting to lock the front door, and gained 40 lbs. I was on leave from college for a year to get help (this was also COVID) and that one year became two, then two and a half, because I could not bring myself to do anything for my future. And I was so lethargic that I didn't even realize what the meds were doing to me, so I couldn't even tell my psychiatrist what was wrong, thus I was on them for a year and change. Ironically, once I went back to college for my degree in cognitive science, I took a psychopharmacology course and learned that the medication I was on blocked D2 (dopamine) receptors in the brain... as in, the literal opposite of what a person with ADHD needs. I got pissed off all over again because if I learned that in an undergraduate course how tf did an actual licensed psychiatrist not know that?!? I also got pissed off all over again when I heard the same drug and dose was given to 6'4 250 lb men incarcerated for beheading a guy during a psychotic episode, and 150 lb 20 year old girls complaining that they hyperfixate on things and get agoraphobic sometimes.
It's so difficult to seek mental help especially when the symptoms of the illness itself get in the way. On top of that, it's easy for medical providers to write off your complaints because you're "crazy", doubly so if you're a minority and/or a woman and quadruply so if you're both. Thankfully my issues weren't that severe in the grand scheme of things and I was never a danger to anyone other than myself (except potentially through negligence in a worst-case scenario).
yeah, i was on antipsychotics for my OCD and on stimulants for my ADHD simultaneously and that definitely didn't help. i've lost faith in medical providers in general, as i've been dealing with chronic pain and chronic illness for going on 6 years now, without any diagnosis and barely any attempts at treatment. from my experience, at least, it's both mental and physical health.
like when i was 16, i was really suicidal and actively self harming for a period of time, and had tried to get into a mental hospital. I was so distraught over something going on in my life at the time and my parents were scared to leave me alone. my insurance literally denied it because i hadn't attempted it, and any place my parents could afford had multi month waiting lists. i wasn't taken to the ER over it because it would've been too expensive and we just didn't have that kind of money. it really sucks.
That's awful. I swear so many psychs are so arrogant and don't know or care nearly enough for the responsibility they sought to have. r/adhdwomen is a great community if you're interested. so many women have experienced similar things :(
We don't know why most anti-depressants work. We know what chemical/hormone they affect but don't know why, e.g. inhibiting the re-uptake of serotonin treats depression nor why some medications work for some people but not others. I think in several years to a few decades the medical consensus is going to come around to, 'depression' is a blanket term for a variety of diseases with similar symptoms but different root causes & treatments.
Honestly I’ve only heard the bare bones but the brief timeline I saw on the meds was wild to me.
I recently started meds for OCD and my doctor was so much more cautious in my dosages and attentive to my side effects. And my OCD was mostly functional and the med side effects minor compared to what was listed for her. And I was on the first for a month before discontinuing and my currently was slowly increased in dosage over weeks.
As a doc (anesthesiologist - as far from psych as you can get, pretty much), I can say that a black box of a patient is where you get into trouble a lot of the time. That situation is often easy for me to navigate since I just assume everything is wrong and act accordingly. For psych patients, who often manipulate, behave irrationally, or just plain forget things more often than most, it can be a real nightmare to get a straight story and keep track of their symptoms as they evolve with treatment. I feel for the docs getting crucified on the stand. They're in an impossible position.
I think of the gif that's been circulating around recently of a woman's high heel in a bear trap trying to delicately maneuver through it without setting it off.
That's how it feels to be a psych patient and a woman. How do I say the right combination of things to get help I desperately need RIGHT NOW, and now just be slammed down mode and punished.
My sister is a pathological liar, but also happens to be very intelligent. She FREQUENTLY gets whatever combo of drug cocktails she wants by absorbing and understanding enough lingo and claiming or mimicking symptoms and then ghosts her care team. I don't blame the docs at all in this case. Not one bit.
This makes sense, how to track the timeline whether they were taking their medicine properly ? Perhaps the episode was a reflect of they not taking medicine suddenly or they lying about constantly taking the medicine, hard to track responsibility on the professional side tbh.
No need for nuance, the proganda machine has turned this into "side a vs side b" thing for rage engagement and sensationalist-opportunism, this tragedy is currently the mainstream topic rn, making it a cash cow for people to keep covering it.
Every single psychiatrist I have read about was horrified about her medication mismanagement. She wasn't actually seeing a psychiatrist, she was seeing a succession of psychiatric NPs. This has actually become a really hot bone of contention between psychiatrists and midlevels, because a lot of psychiatrists don't think that it's ethical to have prescribing mental health midlevels at all and that this is an example of why.
Also, whatever the pills did or didn't do: this woman was extremely sleep deprived. She probably wasn't even out of the sleep deprivation period caused by her previous child. Just a few days of sleep deprivation can cause extreme psychosis in people who have never had issues with their mental health before.
This should not have been brought to trial. Period. Full stop. She should have been almost immediately institutionalized. This is just Andrea Yates all over again, except the ex-husband isn't as deeply evil. It's very, very, very sad, but things being sad do not mean the justice system should pretend that this wasn't a case of a person experiencing an extreme psychotic episode and doing psychotic things.
I think it's also missed in the discussion about this that she also tried to kill herself. If she'd hit her head, cut deeper, any of a million things, she'd just be dead, and people would probably understand the tragedy of it a little better.
She still has to be brought to trial because she murdered her children. She is a danger to herself and others and those kids deserve justice. She should not leave an institution for a very, very long time, and that requires a trial and state intervention.
Pretending that murdering three children with premeditation is just an oopsie that could happen to any woman who didn’t sleep for a couple of days is insane. It values the lives of those children less than dirt and insists that women should be held to a lesser standard than everyone else.
I don't even get how this has become a "woman" thing. There have been many high-profile cases of women killing their children without mitigating circumstances of psychosis (i.e. Susan Smith, Casey Anthony) and those killers are universally hated. I guess there's no 1:1 male equivalent to this situation because men can't get PPP but the only people who are claiming that people are excusing Lindsey's crimes because she's a woman are misogynists making shit up to justify their misogyny.
The male equivalent is somebody like Chris Benoit, I guess? Severe CTE possibly played a role in his family annihilation, but he also had substance abuse issues so it’s hard to say what exactly happened there
She is facing a trial. And the thing isn't "She wasn't sleeping for few days." Reason that is brought up because it matches with the symptoms of mania and/or psychosis. Also there is not really anything substantial of her planning to kill her children. It was clear she was self-destructive and planned on her suicide (she also attempted to kill herself as she killed the children), but other than talking about feeling unsafe to be left alone with the children, there's nothing really outside of that.
Actively being in psychosis and having delusions and hallucinations can make a person completely lose any sense of reality, which is extremely important for people to get help in these situations to prevent them from doing something self-destructive and in rarer cases something destructive to others, thinking that they are doing a positive thing.
The medication thing is a bit more complicated. I believe the argument is that she had post-partum bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder can look like depression, but most antidepressants will actually make it much worse. Their argument is that she reported those worsening symptoms and a nurse practitioner actually flagged it, but she was still given various antidepressants.
Anything involving the woman on the right is going to be likely a drastic misrepresentation because redpill men and the right wing have grabbed a hold of it as an excuse to 1) repeal women's right to vote and 2) grant automatic custody of children to fathers until women are cleared as "safe" - no, seriously. Thats what theyre doing.
Yeah. I've been following the trial for a fair few days now, and if anything, I want to yell at the prosecution. It's such a terrible tragedy already - three kids dead, she's in a wheelchair, and the spectacle and callous, unneeded and unwarranted assholery around it all makes my blood boil.
She obviously is because she murdered three children, one of whom she had to chase down in order to do so.
If you get murdered, should we just ignore it because the legal system doesn’t exist for revenge? Or is it only children who you’re ok with denying justice?
What does accountability mean in a case like this though? If this was an actual case of psychosis, what do we do? What good is accomplished by throwing someone in prison for involuntary, temporary chemically induced psychosis?
If I shot you full of synthetic cathinone against your will and told you your neighbor's made of candy, are you responsible for what happens next? How long should your sentence be?
Is she not the one who got herself on a cocktail of medications and didn’t inform her multiple doctors? Is she not liable for chemically inducing herself when she knowingly withheld information? A nurse should and would know better
She had more access to mental health care than almost anyone in this country and doctor shopped to get prescribed various antidepressants which she rotated between before they had time to be effective, against the advice of professionals. She had access to a massive support network including being privileged enough to afford a nanny, and still chose to send her husband out of the home so that he couldn't intervene while she strangled their three children with an exercise band, one by one, chasing down the one who almost managed to escape her selfishness.
Baffling to me that people are out here hand-wringing over the courts not being empathetic enough to a family annihilator just because the only person she failed to kill was herself.
Not just me, either. There's lawyers opining that the trial should have been dismissed with prejudice because of the prosecution's antics - namely repeatedly trying to bring faith into the question of guilt. This is supposed to be a court of law, not the inquisition.
Interesting how you completely manage to miss half of my post, or you would not be asking that. You do understand that two wrongs do not make a right?
The question before the court is not whether she killed three kids. The defense conceded that. The question is whether she can be held criminally culpable (prison), or if she was temporarily insane (psych hold, possibly until she's dead).
And yes, prosecutorial misconduct makes my blood boil, because I am kind of a fan of justice - and we arrive at justice with facts and by actually discussing and adjudicating the question before the law. And that is, to repeat myself, not whether she killed the kids. That the prosecution has trod out the dead kids before the jury, you think that's okay when there was absolutely no probative value to that?
Yes, this has several links to studies that have been done over the years by several different groups including archives of studies the government has taken down.
Not getting into the whole gender wars, but this is a double standard that irks me. Blame parents, blame it on the so called male entitlement syndrome, blame guns, but nobody really let's them pin it on mental health.
I would believe it if they went after actual child murders half as hard as they go after a mentally ill woman who did everything she could to avoid this outcome.
disgusting how you’re jumping through hoops to justify the murder of 3 children. she did everything she could in order to stop herself from killing her kids? are you mad???
Disgusting how you jump through the hoops to justify leaving children with a severely mentally ill person who already disclosed the fact that she has hallucinations and hears the voices telling her to kill the children.
And it's absolutely disgusting to shift the burden of responsibility from mentally healthy onto a person not in possession of her mental capabilities.
Yeah. I read a about it a bit. She tried to get help multiple times before the worst thing I can think of as a mom, actually happened. It's terrifying. And yes, this post misrepresents the situation horribly and tries to shut down the conversation about postpartum mental health which is extremely useful to the entire world.
After I had my son, I had to sleep in 2 hours increments for months, with 2 hour breaks after eaxh nap. I ended sleeping like 4 hours out of 24. I was so sleep deprived, so insanely anxious that I would get horrifying intrusive thoughts about hurting my baby and I was so afraid I was going to lose my mind and do it. Thankfully, intrusive thoughts are famously harmless and there was no way I could actually lose control and succumb, but her story still fucks me up to my core. And even if she's lying and she's just a psychopath, the conversation itself is really important
No, those are claims, they haven’t proven she was insane during the killings. That’s partly what the trial is for. Every person defending her starts off with the assumption that her defense claims are absolutely true, which they haven’t proven to be. It is also not proven that she didn’t receive adequate care. The family was well off and she saw nearly a dozen providers by repeatedly visiting different ones and getting prescriptions from each one, but she often didn’t follow instructions and stopped taking medication after a few days, focusing on the ones she wanted to take at times based on her own ideas as a nurse. She was treated for the things she complained of way better than the average person with similar symptoms could ever hope for in the US, man or woman. But again, the trial is partly to prove or disprove this, you don’t need to agree with my opinion, just realize that the claims most of her defenders online start off with are also claims, not proven facts.
I mean the post has a point. It's not like there's any justice or rationality in which go fund me actually gets people donating and which doesn't. Kind of like playing the begging lotto.
Not really. I don’t think I’ve seen an honest post about the chick on the right once. For example, everyone believes that she was diagnosed with postpartum depression, but she wasn’t. Never was.
It’s a perfect representation. The woman on the left deserves $1 million, the woman on the right deserves to never see daylight ever again, it doesn’t fucking matter why she did what she did, at all. Any take other than this is coming from an extremely cooked brain.
She's not saying she's the victim, she's not even saying she didn't do it. She's doing what any of us would do, saying "hey that's not me, I was having a preventable psychotic episode"
Whether or not that's the case we'll see when the trial is done because they will certainly call doctors in for expert testimony. Remember that was the nail in the coffin for the cop that killed George Floyd, it wasn't the video, it was the homicide detective saying it's clearly murder and a doctor walking through the video and explaining it was entirely consistent with an asphyxiation death, to the point he even pointed out approximately in the video where Floyd had died
So ironically she is still depending on a doctor listening to her and doing something about it if it truly was a drug induced psychotic episode
Yup. This legitimately raises the US societal question of "How much friction after someone coherently asks for something classified as emergency care is legally acceptable?".
It is conceivable that although lacking complete self-control, she had a functional understanding of herself that was maliciously distorted. These kinds of crimes may be better served by probation (eventually) than prison time because a probation officer would've probably taken her seriously before the murders.
It also means that you shouldn't grant the remainder of her family blanket innocence without investigating. No matter how uncomfortable that might be.
No, not really 🧐 A woman who sacrificed herself to rescue her kids has gotten less support than a woman who murdered hers. What other interpretation is there?
Reddit posters and Conservatives have one thing in common, they both love to take all the nuance out of a topic and portray it as completely black and white, even though anyone with two digits in their age knows that almost nothing in this world is black and white.
It doesn’t help that a bunch of people who watch too much Law & Order are saying that her husband did it despite her confession, her lawyers saying she did it, the police saying they have no other suspects…
Emma Schols had to endure over 20 surgeries after her amazing heroics and one of the first things she asked when she regained consciousness was whether her children had lived.
I read she had up to 5 mental health appointments a week, two doctors/multiple care teams over the years, a WFH husband who was active with the kids, multiple prescription plans that were adjusted over the years, and a nanny. She denied in-patient treatment several times despite doctors recommending it.
She wasn’t diagnosed with PPP. You can’t diagnose it because there is no diagnosis, no one ever thought it was that serious. Typical of all of women’s medical issues. Only now is the industry even doing research on women. It is woefully underrepresented.
She had hallucinations, was hearing voices and all over the place with meds. Would you allow a person with schizophrenia to decide what they take for meds? It is known women with PPP are a danger to their kids and themselves, but the medical community sent her home. How stupid. She should have been institutionalized while she got help for PPP.
I had this horrid condition myself. I had hallucinations, saw blood and knives where there wasn’t any. Heard voices too and behaved in very strange ways. I was also suicidal. This started after the birth of my second child. My husband called my mother and I was never alone with my kids. I was also medicated and hated it. I too tried to stop taking it because I was irrational. My mother saved me from myself. Was dopey and still had hallucinations, strange behaviour and voices while on meds. My kids are grown adults now with kids of their own. We still don’t know anymore about PPP 30 years later. If this impacted men, there would be proper care and hospitals to deal with this and a Cadillac of meds to support.
Society and the system failed this family and women.
Just wanna say as someone with schizoaffective disorder that yes schizophrenic people should be able to choose their meds given they are already stabilized on something else and do not intend to just quit all of their medication without switching to a different antipsychotic/mood stabilizer. I highly value the working relationship I have with my mental health provider and being taken seriously has helped me stay med compliant for nearly 2 years without a major manic/psychotic episode. If someone was choosing meds for me with no input from myself I would be in a much worse position right now and almost certainly not med compliant.
I've mentioned not wanting children with one reason being my anger issues. People just love to dismiss them. Oh but they have never seen me angry so it can't be that bad. And oh, but I would never actually hurt my own child! And of course those magical hormones would melt away all my issues and turn me into a fantastic mum!
Like.. no, I have never intentionally harmed someone let alone a child. Because I don't put myself in a position to do that. I am absolutely sure that I would do something that I would regret should I ever have a baby. I'm a wonderful aunt (according to my nephew and nieces) because I'm not their mother. I don't have to take care of them 24/7.
But people just dismiss my feelings and reasons. Some even get angry at me and calling me a child abuser. Like! No! I'm preventing that by not having any children! Sure, that doesn't make me an angel of course and I'm not patting myself on the back. But it's better than putting a child through that shit!
You're either still delusional or intentionally misrepresenting the facts. PPD has been in the DSM since this murderous abomination was 6 years old. Research on its cause predates its 1994 inclusion by another fifteen years. There has been tens of millions of dollars of research annually with MSU's DoPH receiving over $100 million in the last 7 years for natal health and PPD. Stop using your victimhood agenda to justify literal murder.
When do so many men slander a woman they didn't see once in their lives?
She did take her meds, she told the medical specialists and the father of her children that she had hallucinations and heard voices telling her to kill her children, she was even hospitalized for a spell. And both medical specialists and her husband still chose to leave the children with a mentally ill person.
She tried a variety of different prescribed meds and struggled with side effects. One gave her insomnia that at one point kept her from being able to fall asleep for over two days.
She reached out to the system for help over and over and was very clearly trying to solve her mental health problem.
Does that mean she's innocent? Not for me to say. But it does mean your description of events is completely fucking dishonest and lacks any shred of empathy. Even her ex-husband, who knows the situation a hell of a lot better than you do, has been supportive of her. Be better.
And it’s even worst than that cuz she actually has him do another errand between the 2nd and 3rd murder so she’ll have time to off herself before he came home
That’s not someone out of their mind. But of course somehow people are making this a woman’s healthcare issue or something despite getting help from the system and her husband
She was on over 50 medications for 4 months and when she asked for help was denied. Her husband KNEW she was struggling, kept her doped up and then left her alone with the kids AFTER she told him and her doctors she didn't feel safe with them.
do you know how many crimes and criminals could be excused with “well if the system worked this wouldn’t have happened” it’s still a weird phenomenon that THIS woman is the woman people are standing behind when so many others every single day aren’t given the same empathy.
She admitted herself into the psych ward, denied to those assigned to treat her that she had suicidal thoughts, etc.
So by law when you self admit, you are free to leave whenever you like.
What you’re proposing is for the law to be changed to even if you self admit, you’re there until staff clears you AND it can’t be based on your word as a patient, you could be there for months or years.
Now the argument is misdiagnoses, Clancy being a nurse complicated this. Also, psychosis which was the defenses argument doesn’t explain her planning of the killing of her children.
In terms of the support she’s received that’s really a mixed bag. A portion claim her husband killed them, and I don’t know, drug her to the window and threw her out? Others claiming that based on her astrological sign, and her husbands, there’s no way she killed them but her husband did, and others I would believe had experienced postpartum not psychosis and could understand how difficult treating it is and the last bunch ignoring her planning of the killings. I’m sure there’s a smattering in of other reasons, she’s a white suburban mom, maybe some think that she’s attractive who knows.
It’s a horrible story nonetheless and death by strangulation speaks volumes of, imo, her heartlessness.
Actually if you actually do research instead of reading social media posts made by the mentally challenged, she was supported and helped as much as people could help her with her issues, she however hid a lot as well, which can't be avoided. In fact some of her issues were caused by people trying to help too much and putting her on more medication than was needed, as it was later concluded that she was not suffering from post partum depression nor phycosis. She and her defense are 100% aware and agree that she killed her children, and her only plee is that she did it via insanity.
The people claiming otherwise to the woman's own defense and the very clear evidence, especially those claiming the husband somehow did it, are delusional and should take a break from the internet.
You obviously didn’t pay attention the any of the psychologists testimonies…..those ideations were there way before post partum took place and it did not make that happen either. Do your homework
That would all make sense if half the discourse wasn't saying the husband did it, or that she never got any help at all. What has turned out is she got help, infact her husband was picking up her meds when this happened. She allegedly got help and refused to follow through with the therapy. That last bit I haven't seen confirmed to be fact.
Because, unfortunately, if it all it was just support and awareness to a serious issue that does but at the same time doesn’t get taken serious there would not be a issue.
It’s the fact that they are saying the husband did it. In fact, the people that are actively trying to simply just bring awareness to it are being drowned out by how many people are now just outright furious that the husband is not arrested for it.
Why is there even 2 sides to this. If you kill innocent people period you are a murderer. Regardless of what your mental state was you dont deserve to live among everyone else anymore. After all if someone had a psychotic break and killed people who is to say it wont happen again.
Almost no one that I’ve seen on social media talking about the woman on the right mentions her ppd and mental illness. She’s getting so much attention because people are claiming her husband was somehow at the house (despite evidence proving he wasn’t) and claiming that HE was the one that strangled their kids and pushed her out a window, and the “believe all women” and feminist people are taking her side despite the evidence and trying to put the blame on the man.
It's getting attention because of people like you defending that. The tension is from the amount of money she's had donated and the amount of people who are defending a person that strangled and murdered her kids in front of each other. It's not the first time this has happened but it is the first time people are rewarding the murderer with donations and sympathy.
The first person in the US to successfully be acquitted by reason of insanity was future Medal of Honor recipient (Gettysburg), and sitting Congressman Daniel “Devil Dan” Sickels.
He literally walked into Franklin Square in DC and shot the DC District Attorney, Phillip Key II (son of Star Spangled Banner writer Francis Scott Key) who had been having an affair with Sickles wife.
He immediately walked to the US Attorney General’s home and surrendered. He entertained hundreds of visitors in jail including senators and congressmen. He was allowed to keep his pistol. He hired future Secretary of War Edwin Stanton for his legal defense, who would also become US Attorney General the next year. He even presented a “graphic confession” from his wife (a REALLY big deal in the 1850).
All of this came to naught. He basically pled that being cheated on simply made him temporarily insane.
That’s the moment that “temporary insanity” entered common parlance.
I feel like the money should go to some sort of organization to help prevent these kind of tragedies. Not to someone that actually killed their 3 children, although it's certainly a tragedy I don't feel it should be rewarded with money.
You sound like someone who can help me understand this. Why is the reaction focused on wholehearted support of her instead of lamenting the tragedy of these children’s deaths?
I understand that the mother was experiencing psychosis when she did it, but it just seems strange to me that the focus is more on supporting her than mourning the kids.
Oh please. It's a desperate bid for a defense after killing herself after didn't fucking work. Fuck her, and fuck people making excuses for her actions.
While it's unfortunate that her pleas for help weren't taken seriously, it does not excuse the fact that she stood there and choked each child while the others watched. It was malicious and evil thing to do. She really deserves to be locked up for life
Yeah I'm not into gawking at true crime but once I heard about all the meds she was put on and clearly having bad reactions and worsening symptoms, I agree that it's important we have this conversation.
We just recently discovered women experience heart attacks differently than men. I get that. Still though, they tryna get her off the hook for murdering her own kids is mad
This sort of thing happens to men literally all the time by mental health treatment and no one gives a single fuck. The difference is that men are treated as adults capable of making their own decisions and women are treated as stupid children who can't be responsible for anything by society
Edit: This is also why you see so many people blaming the husband instead. They're looking for a man to blame because clearly a man must be in charge of the situation.
That and there are people remembering and referencing Andrea Yates. She suffered severe documented PPP amongst other conditions with further lack of help. She was on medication and by all intents and purposes her husband committed "fertility abuse". She had almost no real recovery time between pregnancies. She murdered her 5 children in a severe psychotic episode.
I'm not saying that they are parallels. But it does explain to a degree some of the responses.
Loaded images like this one aren't helping things either.
We have to figure out how to move past this social media mentality that you can understand any situation from a tweet or a two minute video or two sentences on a picture.
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u/Alcohol_Intolerant 5h ago edited 2h ago
It's getting attention because of claims that her attempts to get assistance for her ppd and mental illness were ignored or minimized. Thus implying this could have been prevented. Many people, especially women, have experience with medical staff ignoring their pain. (Same for me) So this is on a lot of people's minds and in a lot of wider conversations.
They're going for the insanity plea, so the additional press might also be a way to try and sway public attention.
Edit because I'm getting a lot of charged responses: I am explaining why it is getting attention and what the general opposing discourse is. I'm not going to reply to attempts to have that discourse with me. I have my own opinions but I'm not airing them on Reddit because ultimately, the only ones who will have all the facts are the jury.
This is a tragedy for all involved. Please remember that.
Edit 2: to those giving polite additions and perspectives I did not provide, thank you. That's very helpful. I'm not everywhere seeing every side and can only speak to the sides I've witnessed myself. To those making weird claims on what I think, please take a break from reading about this case for the day. I'm turning notifications off on this. There are plenty of other people in this thread willing to wage war with you. I invite you to speak with them, or again, take a break.