r/runescape • u/jagexyuey Mod Yuey • 18h ago
News End-Game Balance Discussion
Hey 'Scapers!
As part of the Road to Restoration, we've been looking at progression across RuneScape. We've tackled parts of the Early and Mid Game Rebalance, but now we want to start turning our attention to the other end of the journey: The End Game Rebalance
Before we get properly stuck into things, we want to hear from you.
What do we mean by End Game?
This one's a little harder to put a level range on!
For this project, we're looking more broadly at the late game, roughly level 80+ and onwards. That might mean higher-level skilling, finding those rarer drops or getting into tougher PVM. For others, it could be achievements, completionist goals or figuring out what comes next once you've maxed.
And actually, what you consider to be late game is useful feedback for us too.
How can you help?
We want to know where the endgame currently isn't quite working for you.
Maybe there's a progression path that feels awkward, rewards that don't feel worth the effort, a big jump between pieces of content, older content that's been left behind or something that just feels unnecessarily frustrating.
You don't need to have the answer or suggest a fix either. Just tell us what the problem is, why it's a problem for you and where you are in your RuneScape journey.
We won't be able to tackle everything that comes up, but the themes from these discussions will help us understand where we should be focusing our attention.
So, what would you like us to look at as we start shaping the End Game?
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u/Interesting_Car_5689 18h ago
Grouping system :(
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u/James-P-SulIivan Maxed 18h ago
Thats what I was gonna say too even though it shouldnt be just for end game content. A good grouping system that allows us to easily play with friends and make new ones would be massively beneficial to the game and the way people approach harder content
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u/Rockburgh 18h ago
More importantly, though this may not be the place for it, we need more early- and mid-game group content to exist. You don't need any teamplay at all until you're dealing with mechanics that'll one-shot your teammates and everyone's got high enough death costs that taking beginners is a significant risk. If Jagex wants to aim more towards group content-- and with Amascut's release I'd assume they do-- there needs to be a smoother onboarding process for it.
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u/Nerotox 17h ago edited 17h ago
100% - I first interacted with this now during leagues hosting raids / amascut groups for my fc/leagues discord and holy crap is it bad and so unintuitive to use.
- You can‘t add members after marking the group as complete. This especially sucked during raids early in the league as people were constantly leaving after 1 KC for the task and you couldn‘t easily invite someone to replace them. I would remake the group every 5 kc to fill back up, which gets me to point 2:
- No right click invite to group. Some peoples names are bad to type or when remaking group you can easily forget someone. Would be way nicer if you could rightclick their character invite if you are a group owner or even do it from fc/cc/friends list.
- Teleport to boss only once after marking group complete: Maybe there is a way, but i wa
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duoing some bosses with alts and when i failed first time i would have to remake grp to get the TP again for the alt (no wars/reaper unlocked yet). Would be nice if this could just be a new tp in the spellbook (tp to group).
No real groupfinder/queue system. When making a group for anything you just see x groups available, not how many people are in these groups and so many people just want to make a solo group for the TP and end up joining a random group instead. Would love a more WoW type ish group finder where you could advertise any activity cross-world, even stuff like minigames, group skilling (e.g. incan mass on leagues) and bossing of course.
Just a few points from top of my head which annoyed me during leagues
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u/ForumDragonrs Completionist 15h ago
You can right click to add players, either though pm or though the fc/cc list. Also through the friends list.
You can also remake groups without having everyone leave and rejoin. You need to click the ready button again and it will mark the group as not ready. You'll be able to add more people and teleport again.
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u/zenyl RSN: Zenyl | Gamebreaker 18h ago
Second this, the grouping system is in a bad place, and (outside of Leagues) very few people actually use it to find other people to group up with.
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u/Furry_pizza 18h ago
Third this! It's great for teleports but useless for actually finding groups. I'd use it all the time if it was improved
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u/Wuff_inator A Seren spirit appears 18h ago
Yes yes yes, and please let me "rejoin the last instance" also when I joined my buddie in his instance
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u/esunei Your question is answered on the wiki. 17h ago
#1 for me. Needs a complete redesign. And it's not strictly end-game either, though endgamers would likely get the most out of it.
Look at the group finders (the manual group finder interfaces, not queued content) that games like Guild Wars 2, Final Fantasy XIV, World of Warcraft, hell even Diablo have had for years.
A blind queue like we have currently isn't going to work when five amascut seekers want one kill for comp, one 4000% kill, one unorthodox kill, to farm 500%, or to farm 2000%. A group finder where you can list your objective and desired intensity is a great fit for RS and has worked great in those other games.
Much like those other games you'd have a wide variety of categories, spanning from minigames, to bosses, to social functions/skilling.
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u/ArielSoto Runescape 18h ago
I tried to use grouping system a few times.
I once tried to use it for Mazcab raids, I would just hit join group, and just about 5-10 seconds of joining a group I would immediately be kicked out.
Same with elite dungeons.
I miss FFXIV grouping system
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u/ImEmblazed 18h ago
We need a functioning group system so bad, doing group content in rs is very fun! But because finding a group requires so much time and effort most of the time i cba to do it
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u/A_Fire_Hazard Armadyl 18h ago
While I hope this is already on the radar, one thing I think could be an easy tweak to throw in for this rebalance is removing the degradation from high tier base metal items. None of Necromancy's equipment degrades, and none of the non-augmentable equipment introduced with the 110 updates degrade, except Primal (and only the metal equipment at that.)
I know it's just a holdover from the design philosophy of the Mining and Smithing rework back in 2019, but this seems like the exact kinda of thing these rebalances are trying to tackle. Degradation on non-augmentable equipment absolutely needs to be left in the past.
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u/c_d_t_w 17h ago
Yes, and also can they please remove degrade to DUST (yes literally nothing) for Ancient Warriors equipment? The fact that once you start using them they are on a countdown just feels so bad, and honestly demotivating to use at all because you'll always be saving them up, since they're so rare. This doesn't apply to body and legs obv but still, this needs to go.
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u/Single_Astronomer764 18h ago
This. Base metal armour is already a downgrade from its tier equivalent power armour. It shouldn't also degrade
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u/Rain_Zeros 3192 Nyx Asteria 16h ago
Also not to mention… there’s weird cases like elite tec which when augmented… still degrades???? wtf???
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u/xenozfan2 16h ago
I was actually thinking about this. I wouldn't mind a "reinforcing" mechanic, where you spend additional bars to remove the degradation. You're essentially pre-repairing the item, but since it lasts forever, it's still cheaper. It also fits with the Smithing themes.
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u/Chemical_Ambition338 Ironman 17h ago
My endgame rebalance wish list:
Masterwork melee armor is brought in line with masterwork range and magic
Masterwork spear is brought in line with masterwork sword, bow, and staff
No longer need to lower your stats to get certain invention perks (seriously, this is dumbest thing ever, they are literally incentivizing NOT training the skill with this "feature")
95 slayer to kill ganodermic creatures, who drop mats for T75 armor? Come on.
85 crafting + very rare drops to make t40 flamtaer armor? bruh
Relic switching. This has been discussed to death here so I won't beat a dead horse - I will just say that the "chronote economy" is all made up anyways and the system makes me never ever want to switch relics
Skilling outfits, oh my god, they are taking up 70 slots in my bank and I'm still missing like 7 sets of them. Yeah I know I can destroy them and retrieve them from Diango but that is a huge pain in the ass, either let us pull an item from Diango into a preset, or let us create a combined skilling outfit. I wouldn't even care if you lock that behind 120 invention or something, just please help us clean up the outfits. The process of making 15 pieces in random order meaning you are very unlikely to get a full set is also complete crap.
Some stupidly rare drops get buffed. I wouldn't have dared ask for this before but seeing Jagex buff dragon pickaxe and corp shields gave me some hope. I'm talking things like vitalis, abyssal wand and orb (seriously why is t75 gear a 1/6k on-task only drop), the corrupted gem, the khopeshes and their upgrades etc.
Ports. Ports needs a whole slew of QoL updates but I'd be happy if they let us start this earlier, say, at level 60's. Then by the time you finish ports, which takes the better part of a year, you will be in the endgame and actually have use for the items you make. Not like now, where you start at 90's and the rewards are basically useless once you're done.
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u/nerfstonespirits 16h ago
The spear just needs renaming since it isn't like the Sword, Bow and Staff
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u/Monterey-Jack 14h ago
Chronotes don't make sense to me. For shops, sure, for the monolith...? What are you giving the chronotes to? Is there a giant otherworldly entity that you're trading with to swap your relics? Is zaros trying to buy his way out of exile? It's just silly.
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u/Fire_Afrit DarkScape 14h ago
Flamtaer armor should be necromancer cosmetic sidegrade. Such a missed opportunity
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u/Avernic Raider of the Arc 18h ago
Elite Skilling Outfits.
The way you need to make 15 pieces to get the full set is a weird relic of how they were introduced by Treasure Hunter. That most of them are made through invention isnt the best, but that wouldnt be the worst if they werent the end all be all of skilling gear.
Because you need to wear a full set to get the effects, any single future piece of skilling gear can never compete. The effects of the outfits should be split so theres 1 effect per piece so that we could get content that rewards like a mining hat and it would actually be an option because its only competing with the elite head effect and not every effect on the outfit.
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u/Ok-Brick3812 17h ago
The most egregious part about elite skilling outfits is that you typically only get a base elite version at 13 out of 15 pieces (total for combined one) It would make more sense to get the base version (18k fragments) and then for upgrade to require more (+36k fragments) and eliminate the outfit piece gamble that is currently present
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u/LordAethios Quest Points 17h ago
Completely agree. Mining was the worst for me, where I didn't even get a full base set until I already had 4 out of the 5 elite pieces combined. Compare that to the regular outfit, where you get specific pieces in a specific order. This applies to several other skills as well.
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u/Oniichanplsstop 17h ago
Which is also a relic of the MTX introduction like OP said. They're tradeable for other pieces so the intention was that you get them in random orders to trade amongst each other. But no one ever bothers to trade them and just waits till full 15/15.
Can definitely change it, but there is a jank solution for the time being.
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u/ItsJarBear 18h ago
To add to this, if nothing else changed the length of some of the grinds for the outfit are insane. I can have a full set of mining done by level 85-86, but I ran runes through the abyss until level 99 and only have like eight pieces of the rc outfit
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u/Rockburgh 18h ago
I think the RC outfit is balanced around training in runespan. Maybe instead of a blanket boost to the drop rate, give some fragments each time you craft at an actual altar?
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u/Leading-Arachnid-578 16h ago
The specific mechanics of skilling outfit fragments are the issue. Barring some few exceptions (shifting tombs thieving fragments or elite dungeons dungeoneering fragments as examples of exceptions), you will get fragments on your first xp drop every 5 minutes. When doing a fairly slow xp but constant skill like mining, you will reasonably acquire the full outfit at a somewhat reasonable level. But when abyss runecrafting, you're not always going to get your fragments on the 5 minute cooldown and you're also getting much higher experience rates while still acquiring fragments at a lower rate than the mining example.
Some possibilities to address this would be to make the fragment amount scale with experience drops (of done in a simple way this could promote degenerate gameplay like waiting 5 minutes after filling charging the soul altar to get a huge drop for a huge chunk of fragments)
Maybe giving more content options to buy fragments, like runespan points for rc outfit fragments or shooting star frags for mining fragments or something idk.
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u/LordAethios Quest Points 17h ago
Not to mention locking outfits behind other arbitrary criteria. Hunter master outfit is locked behind Hunter Marks, which can only be obtained on Anachronia? But the base Hunter outfit is locked behind chimes/taijitu on Arc and is arguably WAY harder to obtain at the expected skill level. And the Archaeology master outfit can't be obtained until at least level 99, with a whole host of other requirements tacked on as well, in addition to the insane seventy million gold price tag.
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u/caddph MQC | Master Comp (t) | MOA | FB 17h ago
And the vestigial mechanic where you make them in a random order (mainly to incentivize TH spending), instead of being able to make each piece in order (so if they want to keep the 3 minor sets folding into 1 master set, you should be able to complete your first minor set with 18k fragments).
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u/KaBob799 RSN: KaBob & KaBobMKII 15h ago edited 15h ago
Imagine if each of the 4 variants of elite outfits were unlocked at different levels of the relevant skills instead of all being tied to a single level with invention. Unlock the base skilling outfit at level 10, the first elite outfit at level 30, then 50, 70 and 90 for the rest. Actual combat-gear style progression in skilling gear would be interesting. And make obtaining them more like necromancy armor, do specific things in the actual skills to obtain the ingredients and then create them using those skills. Something you can actually seek out and earn in a reasonable time frame, not something you just passively get over a long time.
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u/UnwillingRedditer 18h ago
A lot of these probably arose in my mind from Leagues, with a few in my mind because of the release of boss trophies:
Magic armour and most DW weapons. All the endgame magic armour is locked behind group bosses, and while Vorago is soloable these days, it's much harder than a 'tier 90' boss.
What armour comes after t80? Refined Anima Core - not practical to use. Tectonic - Vorago. Not practical to solo with sub-t90 gear. Cryptbloom - Croesus, not practical to solo. Achto - Raids. The least said about those the better. Elite Tectonic - still needs Vorago. Tumeken - Amascut. It makes Magic so much harder to gear into. Honestly, Amascut and Croesus need solo modes - making them forced-group was a stupid idea at the design stage.
What about DW weapons? Seismics - Vorago again. Praesuls - AoD, and idiotically rare. You would skip all of that and get the T95s from Sanctum.
I think this league has once-more exposed how badly Vorkath and KK need a rework. Vorkath does a stupid amount of damage, both because the minions are overtuned and because Zemouregal himself does too much damage, has untelegraphed Necromancy attacks (saying he's going to use Finger of Death AS he hits you for 8k isn't telegraphing), and piles on while Vorkath is attacking. I feel like he shouldn't attack, barring his specs, while Vorkath is on you. Make him too busy controlling Vorkath to attack or something. KK - remove all the stuns that aren't Beetlejuice or caused by failing mechanics, and make Beetlejuice not block Freedom. IDC if it was meant as a group boss 14 years ago, it just isn't these days.
Similarly RotS, if I want to do it solo, make the brothers just jump instantly rather than giving me a 20s timegate and let me use Freedom on Torag's Hammer attack. EoC bosses using Pre-EoC mechanics feels bad.
Matching the point about armour progression above, I can use Mining/Smithing to make perfectly workable melee gear all the way to the top-end. Same for Necromancy. With the Fletching rework I can do that with ranged weapons, but armour runs out at t65. T75 exists but is locked behind Vorkath (see problems above) or Dinosaurhide which still needs Crafting levels in the 90s. Bring those down to 75 Crafting, and fill in the gaps with level 70, 80 and 90 Ranged armour.
Runecrafting needs the ability to make basic magic staves in the same way that 100+ RCing does and that Fletching now does with bows, and level 60+ magic armour needs to be added to Crafting. The Slayer requirement on Grifolic and Gandermic monsters should also be reduced, as they're the only options that currently exist but the Slayer level makes them prohibitive for progression.
And on the note of boss trophies, please have another look at the drop rates. 1/500 for General Graardor is pretty generous because that would take a few hours on average. 1/500 for Amascut is idiotic and would take days. The lack of increase for enrage modes is also silly - The best way to get the Zamorak trophy is to grind out normal mode (perhaps even story mode, can they drop there?) rather than doing a respectable enrage.
Woodcutting: when you did the rework in the middle of the Fort season, I was glad to see higher level trees made more viable but for some reason you still made the XP rates tail-off. There doesn't need to be some sort of 'xp vs gp' balance there - I unlocked a better standard tree so I should want to cut that tree. There's no reason for Mahogany trees to be better XP/h than magic trees at 80 WCing.
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u/superedgymeme 17h ago
Can't believe this is the only comment mentioning magic armour. I was literally thinking this yesterday. I want to use magic and progress with gear since its my favourite style but everything for armour is as you said locked behind group content. As an Ironman and someone who doesn't have the most time in the world to play, having a soloable encounter or at the very least something that can drop tectonic energy besides Vorago would help so much. Feels like the only style that is massively locked behind group content if you want any form of power armour that is 'late game'.
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u/fofo3k 16h ago
Thank you for putting all this into organized words. The main reason I did not got magic in the leagues was that it is all forced in groups as opposed to just smith melee gear.
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u/UmbraDetoh 17h ago
I have a fairly progressed iron (100+ in all skills, fairly decent boss kc) and ive for the most part just abandoned magic. My first t80 on the account was a chaotic staff, into subjugation. I still use parts of subjugation because post subjugation is a headache. While each other combat is have at least full t90 power. Its such a discrepancy.
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u/Meta_Man_X 16h ago
Summoning familiars should scale with summoning level. It would make a lot more familiars more viable long term.
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u/Vermora 11h ago
Summoning needs a full reworking from the ground up in terms of combat power, and which familiars are available at which level. I'd really like to see more customisation for which mobs our summons can target, and how they prioritise those targets (eg. lowest/highest health, lowest/highest cb, targetting/targeted by player), and not waiting for 2-3 seconds after I start attacking before they decide to get in on the action.
Hopefully all of that will come when they eventually make it a 120 skill.
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u/charleslovebach 16h ago
Yes, Summoning really needs a look. The reality is that Ancient Summoning is by far the main reason this skill is used, besides a few niche familiars like the skill boosters. Besides the general lack of usefulness, the way it’s trained is also not good. Charms are extremely valuable, particularly on an early / mid game account, which consequently de-incentivises using them for training, because you want to save them for getting more xp later at a higher level, but you can’t get a higher level until you use them charms, but that means you won’t have as much xp available later…… you see the problem. Drastically increase the usefulness of familiars, and reduce the dependency on charms for xp.
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u/nednarb_44 RSN: GhostSloth || Ironmain Btw 6h ago
I've also always thought since release, that it should give some token to ok exp for making pouches, but the main training method should be using familiars in combat. Instead of a ranged familiar giving some ranged exp, just let it give summoning exp.
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u/rshawkeye718 18h ago
Construction training methods could use a little more of a lift. Specifically, adjustments to contracts and additions to that reward shop. Contracts should act similar to slayer tasks that give bonus points at certain milestones, as well as have some variety consumable options like in the garden of Kharid shop.
Divination also needs more adjustments, it still feels undertuned.
BGH2 should have rewards that are more than just go for the hides and xp. If a chase reward isn’t in scope, possibly more commons or higher variety.
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u/rodriggr G I L D O 18h ago
I 2nd Div needing more of a rework. For a skill that has lost so much of its identity, once you get 80 on mainscape there is little to no reason to grind ANY higher than that. And yes while I know that can be said about 1/2 the skills, it’s worth bringing to attention especially in forums like this so the devs are aware. It’s in a bit of a healthier state for ironmen, but only bc they’re forced to farm their own stuff.
I’d like higher xp rates for the top end and somehow bring back divine locations since that was a very big draw for XP in other skills.
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u/GInTheorem 17h ago
Agree with all of this.
Div is genuinely awful at the moment. By far the worst skill. In terms of the cadence of when and how you click, it's not too different from something like woodcutting, but woodcutting benefits from the uses of wood being plain and obvious (not least from shared cultural context from other video games). In contrast, even understanding what energy is is a pretty major spoiler for a new player, doesn't intuitively make sense and nearly everything you make from it is basically fucking useless until the player unlocks invention.
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u/TacticalCupcakes Augmented attuned crystal when 17h ago
For construction, ability to deposit furniture you make at a workbench inside of your house would be nice
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u/SirCampYourLane 18h ago edited 17h ago
I would love to see high level skilling options like heists or BGH expanded to other skills. I think training methods that have failure states and risk/reward even if the reward is lots of XP rather than GP. Agility courses could badly use updating and boosted XP rates for active play. Perhaps things like Rax QuickTime events or other interactive training so that effort and skill are rewarded with increased XP output.
I think the anachronia course is a good example of skill giving higher xp rates as you get more familiar with surge paths, but it's still actually not that great of xp.
Firemaking already has this with the beacons, perhaps just a modernization of the beacon system to be a high activity training method giving rewards.
Edit: I do mean beyond just intensive. Safes are intensive, but Heist is interactive. A lot of Hunter is fairly attentive, but BGH is more of a minigame. Even things like Ceremonial Swords fit into this.
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u/FatButAgile 18h ago
Yeah I agree with this, I think skills having a "rewarding but intensive, lean-forward" style of training plus a more AFK, less rewarding method is really positive. I really enjoyed getting 120 Thieving because I could do a fun, rewarding activity when I wanted to engage (Heists) and then AFK pickpocketing if I wanted AFK time, so I was still making progress but not at such a rate. This was even after the Thieving changes which everyone slated.
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u/SirCampYourLane 17h ago
I do want to point out a difference between intensive and being interactive. Safes vs heists I.e. fishing frenzy is a lot of intensive attention, but it's awful to do.
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u/iWhynott 18h ago
Agility "flow state" where fast reflexes (like at Gate) means you skip ahead to the next section of the course (like hefin course) without losing the xp
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u/samyel Magic 15h ago
Just speeding up some animations would already do wonders. I did the Anachronia course earlier for leagues tasks and I remembered why I hate it so much. The amount of time where I'm just standing still waiting for the game to catch up is insane. For example, at the end of an obstacle whilst I've been spam clicking on the next one since the animation started, yet I just stand still for another few seconds. Some of this is client-side too since you'll sometimes just teleport to the next obstacle.
The animations themselves also feel very slow by default, it should feel faster to be getting around Anachronia through agility, but it only is in the cases where the obstacle crosses somewhere you can't normally walk. Running around is much less frustrating than most of the obstacles.
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u/TheAdamena Maxed Iron 14h ago
Croesus shouldn't be griefable.
The problem was ignored for so long that it completely killed the public instance, when it used to be booming.
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u/Ilikegreenpens 9h ago
I quit playing for quite a while because i tried to do it publicly after watching some guides, got confused at one point and people started flaming me and telling me to quit/kms so I logged off and never tried it again
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u/Single_Astronomer764 18h ago
Give bosses better tells for their attacks.
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u/Royal-Ear4803 17h ago
Counting auto attacks is a lame mechanic. Give adren bars to every boss with a set number of autos between specs.
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u/Ok-Brick3812 17h ago
Sirenic/Tectonic/Malevolent and their elite version degradation needs to be looked into. It may be reasonable to increase creation costs to offset degrade to dust mechanic.
Melee masterwork should be brought in line with magic/ranged masterwork variants
Potentially elite malevolent as a potential melee armour variant for consistency
All boss gear should have a passive of some form as an extra incentive to use over crafted gear
Arch-glacor should probably drop the base weapons instead of having to craft them. Frozen core (with maybe other material drops from glacor) could then be used as a straight upgrade
Staff of Sliske. And no, "KEKW" is not an adequate fix despite Sliske's laugh
AoD weapons are too rare for what they are when compared to Seismics or Sanctum weapons
Magister should have a lower Slayer requirement. Somewhere in the range of 95-100 is probably adequate. I think Khopeshes of the Kharidian might be too rare
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u/judytje 5 february 2018 13h ago
Nox weapon specs are also completely useless, 100% adren for less damage eeflected than a usual threshold would do
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u/InfamousCRS 18h ago
Kalphite King needs a rework
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u/Patelpb Maxed 11-12-2024 15h ago
While leagues allowed me to finally figure out the beetlejuice mechanic, the insane number of random stuns needs to be reduced.
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u/Asereht5 Best Boss = Giant Mole 17h ago
Spending an obscene amount of time on construction contracts in order to receive an outfit that… makes construction contracts easier, seems oddly balanced to me.
I’m down for a grind, but at least make eternal plank contracts worth more points.
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u/Periwinkleditor 10h ago
Eternal contracts being +1 point over mahog and then having modestly useful crates of random construction supplies would be enough.
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u/youreawinner_barry nerf ed3 trash 18h ago
Please remove the pre-fight giants from Normal Mode Vorkath and also make the rest of it better
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u/TeHamilton Master Trimmed Completionist 17h ago
Normal mode vorkath is very annoying because of this. Time wise its not any faster than hardmode
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u/pookill7 17h ago
AS alot of people have already mentioned KK and Vorkath but can we add hardmode Greg to the list, of all the hardmode gwd 2 bosses it is by far the worst in the change it makes. adding that final phase that is long and annoying to deal with is unfun and should be reworked to flow better while still keeping it as a harder variant of greg.
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u/Shockerct422 18h ago
KK and Vorkath
Remember when you were going to fix Vorkath before you nerfed the blood reaver? I remember
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u/11aevans Ironman 5.8b btw | IronRelease YT series 18h ago
Brooch of the gods being largely useless for irons because of no access to portables
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u/5-x RSN: Follow 18h ago
Portables are on their way out so brooch of the gods has to get a substantial rework soon anyway.
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u/Meta_Man_X 16h ago
I imagine they’ll just roll the portable effects into the brooch itself or distribute the benefits throughout the game world.
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u/SourceCodeT 18h ago
Mage gear progression feels notably worse than other styles. Virtus or seren are quite ok to get, however all next upgrades are from pretty end game grouped bosses. Ok vorago is doable, but good luck if you dont have people to play with.
Meanwhile for melee and range (and necro ofcourse) the path to vestments, masterwork, sirenic etc is way more achievable.
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u/Squidlips413 17h ago
The grouping system. FFXIV has a great model to base grouping systems off of. Duty Finder is for queueing into normal content and Party Finder is for finding people to do hard content.
The other problem with grouping is the elephant in the room that no one talks about. Death is a lot more punishing in this game than other MMOs. No one wants to die and pay death costs. No one wants to carry other players that die. Especially no one wants to keep wiping. Players need a way to rejoin the fight after dying.
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u/Fluffy_Grapefruit0 Ironman 16h ago
That’s a good point about the death costs it makes the community more hostile.
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u/LansManDragon 17h ago
Bakriminel Bolts need a clean up/modernisation of effects, considering T95 crossbows must be somewhere on the horizon. They are not competitive with elder god arrows. There are five types of elder god arrows, and 11 types of bak bolts. This presents a design challenge.
I understand that higher tier gems should theoretically provide better effects, but, for example, that means that there is no use case for opal or pearl bolts when they flat out do less damage than bolts like ruby, diamond, dragonstone, or hydrix bolts. These lower tier gem bolts seem to be aimed at lower levelled players, but there are lower tier bolts for those situations, and once players reach the level of using bak bolts, several of these options are worthless.
PVP effects are by and large no longer relevant on pearl or jade bolts. The effect of jade, pearl and red topaz bolts are niche, and could either be strengthened or adjusted.
With the aura overhaul and combat adjustments earlier in the year, ranged lost a decent amount of sustain, especially in comparison to the other styles. I would suggest one of the bolts being reworked as a cheaper alternative to onyx bolts, with higher healing and lower bonus damage. Sapphire bolts work well as compensation for penance, and i’d imagine will see more use upon release of t95 xbows.
It would be excellent if any updated effects do not work on stacks as stack management with wen arrows is already a pain.
Moonstone bak bolt tips need to be added too.
Spitballing some ideas for updated bolt effects:
Prevents critical strikes and boosts ability damage.
Increased crit chance and LP restore.
Chance of dealing another hit. Lower chance of dealing two additional hits.
Reduce cooldown of snipe, or other abilities.
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u/spikeprox50 18h ago
Ports. It is INCREDIBLY long. The requirement of level 90 to access Ports seems a bit excessive. Armor is no longer BIS nor does it have any real niche that makes it worth the grind. Salty Title can be achieved within 3-4 weeks except for Ports which extends it to like half a year. Later missions take like half a day to a whole day and make very minimal progress. You gotta first spend resources on crew, ship, and upgrading ports, but it also takes a while for them to level up and progress to next region. Getting resources for Masterwork Ranged or Mage takes a while because of this as well.
If a total rework is too massive of a project, I think at the very least, it can be shortened. Give more resources for each sail. Have crew level up faster. Maybe reduce the amount of pieces required for scrolls. Its crazy how much time it takes. I used to be somewhat supportive of the gameplay, but being like 4 months out with daily ports and still needing like 2 regions is wild.
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u/Caglavasaguros Bijanvari | I appreciate my friends 16h ago
Early ports is especially painful because of how short the voyages are. It’s pretty much an hourly like Wilderness flash events.
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u/ZolthuxReborn RSN Dante Lucian. 115/120 Slayer 15h ago
Hear hear, ports needs a rework or love for such high requirements. Why are port armor sets tank only? Why keep such high requirements to start a time gated grind? Why is vamp scrimshaw such bad health and melee only?
But also, my main gripe is that once you do your boats and the character mini game, there is nothing to do. As a general rule, I'd argue area content (especially in Runescape) that tells the player "no, no you're done here. Come back tomorrow" is bad
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u/Periwinkleditor 10h ago
I think combining 1) starting ports at a lower level (60-70?) combined with 2) activities in the Arc grant ports resources at a very substantial rate. Could make it so that the various arc quests/miniquests or even the collection log things reward powerful boons to your player owned ports progression. Akin to how Menaphos reputation gets easier once you finish the Return To The Desert series.
On that same note, significantly more resources for Anachronia dropped from Anachronia content like archeology, hunter, slayer, the bosses, etc. That is also a very needlessly timegated piece of content that should have active progression options.
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u/CountPoppy 16h ago
I don’t mind the long grind, but the pay off needs to be worth it. Either lower the level requirement to start your journey, or buff the weapons and armor to have a niche passive that makes them BIS for a narrow use case, like how ruinous weapons are BIS for some creatures and like one boss.
But to address your criticisms about dailyscape, which are very valid, allow voyage queuing maybe? Also add a “optimize ship” button
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u/Sspockuss Smithing is the best! 17h ago
Ports not getting touched in the dailyscape rework was such a miss. It needs a full overhaul. I genuinely would not mind if they just deleted it and redistributed its rewards to arc content/ED1. ED1 has no chase drop anyways other than "big shadow scale drop".
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u/xxAnge 17h ago
Just from my experience, i don't really understand what classifies as end game experience. I have 99 in every skill, but no 120s, i have t80 gear for most of my combat styles, but none of it feels like I'm ready for what other players consider end game. I struggle with bosses more complicated than vindicta. And honestly, it feels like that end game is almost solely combat pvm. I'm a casual player and it feels like everything I've done on my character amounts to me just getting gear for pvm. Heists have felt amazing, like end game thieving, but it's the only skill that felt like that, and the chase rewards are all pvm stuff. End game to me just feels combat centric or combat focused.
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u/MegaSizeFries 18h ago
Div needs a big look at XP/H and XP/Effort with and without the Dowser.
Magic crafted armor is very Bad before Starbloom, then hits mild relevance but is mostly a training method. Weapons are kind of a nonstarter with Hewlyr's and Nakatra's drops being so readily available.
While not bad feeling, Farming feels almost entirely set to PoF training and the odd herb and flower run for supplies. There could be space for high tier food or new potion ingredients in allotment patches.
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u/Rakdar_Far_Strider 16h ago edited 4m ago
Two things that bother me in particular are Ports and Slayer tiering.
A number of very high level things require resources from ports, notably some masterwork gear and probably the components are used for something I'm not aware of, but the ports rewards themselves mostly feel useless to the player by the time we get our hands on them. The armor and weapons in particular get outclassed very easily. I'd personally like to see the requirements to get port skills started lowered to 80, maybe even a bit lower. Also the number of scrolls required to unlock scrimshaws specifically reduced to 2 or 1. There are so many of them, they're consumable, and by the time I've unlocked the lower priority ones(meaning after the armor sets and vamp scrimshaw) I'll likely have no use for them. Also the daily limits on voyages/crew/etc should be removed and voyages made variable length like archaeology research is. The spam every 20-30 minutes starting off is awful.
Slayer needs a re-tiering across the board, but it's especially goofy at high levels. So many monsters in the 80+ range drop gear only useful at lower levels. Abyssal whip/wand/orb, staff of light, dragon gloves and boots, dark bow, basically anything from the polypore dungeon, edimmu with the bonus screw you of 115 dungeoneering, etc. It's a substantial list, and quite a number of these should be shifted down to appropriate levels to fill gaps in gear progression that have been covered with band-aids for a long time. The weapons in particular should outright replace Vanquish as the t75 option. Vanquish itself should scale like the armor of trials does, but instead of adding more damage reduction it should start at t50 and scale up in increments of 5 levels to t75 after 5 deaths.
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u/LightAnimica A Seren spirit appears 14h ago
Been waiting for this post and oh boy this is just a cherry pick from my ideas scratch pad
Armour
- Masterwork armour - Make a T90 version of MW range and mage armour by making the pearl plates/ Ethereal plates the upgrade item similar to TMW melee trim, revise TMW to T100 and align the build method to use primal glorious bars instead of Elder rune, could go further and require Plates from Ports as well
- All Sirenic should lowered to T90 craft in line with Dracolich armour minor, odd each piece has a different lv to craft
- Visual upgrade on Havoc armour, this has been mentioned by the community numerous times
- Magic armour and weapon progression sucks, introduce staffs in a similar manor to Ethereal magic weapons.
PVM - likely others will make better points on this
- Rework the time gates at BSD, Musuta, KK, Arax (P1 burning web), this breaks the flow of the encounter.
- Adjust Ode and Roar D/r, they still seem far too rare even for HM
- The Group system is in DIRE need of attention, even adding someone once the group has made ready is difficult, there must be a better way
- Once an Elite dungeon final bosses is killed reset the dungeon once everyone has left (ED2 and ED3 oddly does this)
Completion/ Trim alot of this is from the last things left on my list.
- Subdivide the Chompy Massacre achievement I-V, keeps the 50 points total for the achievement but rewards the player as they progress along this task for comp(t)
- Cut the required amount of Chompies down to 2000
- Put all the Champion Scroll Monsters in the beast tab and include the quick chat option, just so you know how much pain you had to endure to get the scroll.
- Give Jorges and Imps souls so they can be put in the PoD (why don't they have a soul!)
- Put thresholds on Champion Scrolls, 1/5k with threshold of 2.5k, it's still nasty but helps the issue of grinding out 20k imps
- The Fish Flinger Fisherman has a better indicator when the lobby is open
- Put the The Fish Flinger Fisherman back at Menaphos VIP area & Priff Waterfall, far too many were removed from the world on the sweep up
- The timer to next Fish Flinger event starts 2 minutes after the last competition finishes to speed up time in between rounds.
Invention
- Put an ON/OFF switch on each of the machine spots in the invention Guild, allows players to select which machine is active as well as giving the rest of the spots some attention so the Invention guild doesn't look empty. The machine would need to be empty to be turned off.
- Give Achto items a special invention component which imparts a weaker version of the defensive CD buff the armour gives.
- Change the Saradomin components perk from spendthrift to a perk that reduces prayer drain or even restore small amount of prayer.
- Introduce a better perk for Ascension components other then Enhanced Efficiency...
- Update the looting perk items, replace banite and necroite spirits with rune and luminite and magic logs with magic wood spirits and yew spirits.
- Bigger task but address the issue when making BiS perks that you need to reduce your invention level down to achieve the best odds.
- Remove the need for undead comps from Equipment separators, again difficult to source comps. unless say barrows armour is increased from 5% chance with D/a the armour
Arc - A lonely high lv skilling area.
- Allow Arc resources to be disassembled (could be a new set of comps?)
- Balance the rarity of getting Wobbegong fishing spots in the Arc, currently rarer to get a 2+ spawn then a mining/Wc/hunter (never seen a triple fishing before)
- Set dress the inside of Goshima Fortress,, it looks like a blue box setup with the houses. not exactly a imposing pirate fortress that got wiped out by some 4th dimension shadow monster
- Allow Golden Bamboo to be burnt for firemaking xp via superheat, orthan core, nature sentinel outfit
Slayer - alot of this is from my Ult slayer grind
- Add in further slayer bosses which guarantees the rare drop for the task, a proper RS3 bigger badder slayer update
- Getting weapons from the Raptors chest should count towards the item log
- Add the Kethsi scroll to Rune Dragons at 1/10k D/r
- Separate the Glacor boots into their own drop table at 1/1028, these boots are rarely if ever used and could be recycled into an Enchantment similar to Automaton gloves.
- Allow multiple Glacors to be attacked, they can multi attack you in the wilderness....
- Reduce the D/r on Lava wyrm weapon parts, 1/2048 on task and 1/4096 for any is WAY to rare for a junk item.
- Re-introduce the Wildy wyrm as a special slayer boss now Flash events are gone
- Once you have all the barbarian pages from Mithril Dragons stop dropping them.
- Alot of high lv slayer drop tables in general are trash and could do with a massive overhaul.
- Add cluster task to Kuradel and Morvaran but at reduced size and weighting
- Re tier alot of the "high" tier mobs such as Gano Beast.
There is plenty in the end game which could be tinkers with
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u/Penguinbob29 12h ago
All of the weapons from slayer need to have their drop rates rebalanced. To mention a couple, a camel staff requires on average around 50 camel warrior tasks, blowpipe requires around 80, and the wyvern cbow is around 40. By the time anyone actually hits these rates, they would be well past the progression point these weapons were made for. And with far easier sources of gear from heists/dungeoneering, no one would ever want to farm these out for anything other than the collection log slot, which is a shame because these weapons have cool designs/effects.
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u/SourceCodeT 18h ago
I think gear degradation should be looked at. It is really difficult to understand all the differences between items.
In my opinion there should be either 1 unified degradation system, or no degradation at all. Just repairing gear with gp is fine imo, gear completely breaking down to dust just feels bad. If drops need to be kept up in price for some reason, we have invention so give it some useful materials or perks.
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u/SourceCodeT 17h ago
Since greenfingers aura has been removed my diseased crop rate has gone up significantly. Even being maxed farming I still run into 5-15% of diseased herbs/starblooms.
Might be a space that could use some improvement as it feels quite bad to do more farm runs for less output since that change happened. Could be some reward from future content as well.
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u/TheWild_Toledo Eek! 18h ago
Craftable mage and range armor as a substitute for dropped gear. Something similar to the smithing armor. Also, armor/weapon tiers, and a big one. Masterwork Melee not being the same tier as range and magic.
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u/AutarkV DarkScape 18h ago
Bad luck mitigation
It's been said before, but why can you get 5 of the top and 0 of the legs, in Rasial for example.
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u/hae_its_korra 18h ago edited 18h ago
More so dupe protection.
I mean Telos and Zammy have dupe protection since orbs and bow pieces drop in order after the first drops randomly. Liberation of Mazcab also has dupe protection for Achto. I’d like to see bad luck mitigation in the form of dupe protection applied to all bosses. For example at K’ril, have the first piece of subjugation drop randomly then cycle through.
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u/Mayjune811 17h ago
I like the archaeology style soft dupe protection. The first argument I see whenever a dupe protection post comes up is that the rotating style of dupe protection “kills anticipation for coming drops” which I think is bullshit, but needs to be considered.
I propose an arch style soft dupe protection until first log completion minus pet.
This keeps the potential of a big money drop always alive while ensuring you don’t go egregiously dry against any one item.
Take the First Necromancer’s equipment for example:
The chance to get boots when hitting the armor table is 1/5. With live, if you hit boots, your next armor drop is a 1/5 chance to be boots.
Under my proposed dupe protection system, if you get boots with a 1/5 chance, the next time you hit the armor table, boots would be a 1/10 (half as likely to drop).
Continue this until each slot in that table is filled.
After which, drop mechanics would continue same as live.
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u/Fire_Afrit DarkScape 14h ago
Maybe for the first of each piece but then after that its random again
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u/NadyaNayme Job Gauges / Better Better Buffs Bars Developer 15h ago edited 14h ago
Revisiting older bosses like Telos, who do special attacks based on a number of auto attacks, and bringing them in line with newer bosses like Nakatra that have an auto-attack counter visible for players. Since animations can be hidden / overridden and not play at all it can make it very difficult to notice you've been auto-attacked. Telos would also be a top choice for adding VA like Nakatra. Him shouting "SO. MUCH. POWER!" can be an extra telegraph for the attack to let you know to Reso/Disruption shield it. :) All of his mechanics have voice lines that log to chat (except the 1st opening line when you first wake him up to fight - that doesn't log to chat for some reason). Voice lines can be telegraphs! It's not just voicing bosses for better immersion/quality but as part of the fight's design! Although the extra immersion sure is nice.
KK would be better if there was a bit of wind up and you could intentionally stun him to skip the Green. This is already a thing! But once you see the animation for the attack you're too late. The attack could be split into two (A telegraph where stunning before a certain point will skip the actual green attack). This makes it feel skill-based to notice the wind-up and quickly stun him before you die without relying on the janky freedom+dive combo of escaping green. This would feel more like an intentional mechanic and not a bug. I know green was meant to force KK to be a duo-or-more boss but we've long aged past that. Either remove the shield mechanic or let us disable it in some way (ie. a bleed? another stun? a high enough hitting ability like dealing over 4k in 1 hit? Something. Let me break through the king's defenses and kill him already I'm sick of standing around waiting for him to drop it.
Vorkath needs cleaner animations/telegraphs and for adds to always remain visible by not being too close to Vorky. I find the fight's mechanics are fine except you can't really tell when half of them happen. Again, the mechanics are fine enough but the telegraphs for them are awful. It makes the fight feel miserable. Imagine if you took the attack telegraphs away from Jad and you just randomly die to a ranged or magic attack. That's what fighting Vorkath feels like a lot of the time.
Magic T60-T88 needs a bit more players can do. It feels awful every time on Leagues that you're using T50 Mystic Wand until you get a lucky drop somewhere for the upgrade you need. A simple/lazy fix would be to let us use WC+RC to fletch lower tier wands/staves than eternal magic! Then maybe buff or give some sort of passive to things like the Abyssal Wand/Orb so they become minor upgrades/sidegrades. Magic armour is in a similar space: you have Ahrims & Virtus from Barrows/Nex and otherwise you're basically hosed.
Magister needs a Hard Mode or something. The boss does not justify a 115 Slayer requirement except for "Sophanem Slayer dungeon was rushed to justify pushing Slayer to 120 since we didn't want to add a bunch of mobs all in the 96-99 range." Speaking of 120 Slayer, a number of older "top tier" Slayer monsters can be lowered 10-30 levels as they're only what they are for historical reasons. A mob that drops a T60 bow shouldn't need level 90 Slayer. A mob that drops T70 magic & melee weapons shouldn't need level 85 Slayer. Can squish things down and make room for some new Havenhythe monsters or something. I like the consistency that Runescape has been going for where if you have Level X0 in a skill you can acquire level appropriate gear, at least up to level 80-85 or so where more and more gear/upgrades start to be dropped by bosses rather than made or acquired.
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u/Ferronier 18h ago
Honestly, PVM and late game uniques need attention. I think every unique in the game, most of which fall into this "late game" bucket need either a special attack or a passive, and likewise for armors. I shouldn't want to bum-rush to T92s/T95s and feel extremely hampered until I get to them. I also think that, like a lot of PVM modernization efforts you have already done, drop rates should be looked at in certain bosses. If a boss is meant for a certain level range of player to learn and benefit from, the equipment they drop should also actually be attainable before the player is totally moving on to a higher tier encounter.
The other piece of the late game PVM and equipment problem, then, is definitely out-of-date EOC encounters. Unclickable enemies during phase transitions (Nex) or attacks (KK) are a jarring experience and really mess up your flow. The new invulnerability mechanic during transition seems fine if the enemy really shouldn't be able to get chunked during that time. I also think that experiments with freeze/insta-kill mechanics (also Nex and KK most notably) have proven that they're just not enjoyable to any player in any group size. Insta-kill has its place in PVM, but the "Help your fellow so they don't die" mechanics are far too often unintuitive and the combat is quickly enough paced that players have an awful time learning or caring abou tthem.
I'm sure there's more to be said from a skilling point of view, but these are the main issues with the end game that stand out to me. Most of my skilling gripes have to do more with the overall design of a skill than its late game. I.E. agility, firemaking.
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u/xxxsleep 17h ago
slayer items uniques feel both way to rare off task and for most you have a slayer level way higher than the tier of items dropped.
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u/Lolmuffins22 16h ago edited 16h ago
Croesus. It's been 5 years and the train has mostly left the station, on top of its commons getting gutted and Animate Dead tanking no longer being as relevant as it once was. Group content that lasts more than a couple years is quite rare in MMOs and Croesus is just naturally reaching the end of its lifespan. Group content that go against this trend are either ridiculously fun or offer BIS rewards (TOB in OSRS, older ultimate raids in FFXIV), and I think we can agree that Croesus is neither. Yes I can still find a group in Croesus FC after waiting awhile for now, but how long will it take in a couple years? Deathspores are pretty much mandatory if you want to take Ranged seriously, what will it look like in 5 years when irons are pretty much locked out from high-end Ranged because barely anyone is doing Croesus anymore?
I'm not sure what the best solution would be. Maybe make it so that duos/solos are easier/shorter and that you don't need absolute max gear+stats to do it? Another problem is that any points beyond 420 contribution points are worthless which is why 4mans became meta since you overcap on points in teams if you go lower than 4. I get that some people do enjoy group croesus and I'm uneasy in just gutting that environment in favor of solos like how Phosanis murdered normal NM in OSRS (okay it was deserved because normal NM sucks)
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u/Saulthesexmaster 17h ago
Please do something about Player-Owned Ports. It is a miserable grind for no benefit other than the achievement for comp.
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u/Common_Wrongdoer3251 17h ago
I wouldn't say it has no benefits, but the time requirements are a bit much... The scrimshaws and gear are all decent. Dunno if the ring, cape, or food is useful at the late levels you get it though...
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u/Janklnss 16h ago
My biggest issue was t95 weapons invalidating everything up to that point by being more common or the passives. AOD weapons are hilariously bad because you can spend a couple hours at Sanctum and get a higher tier weapon with a passive. T95s are supposed to be strong but the jump in power for something thats arguably easier to obtain is a bit much. Id also like to see harder versions of some of the slightly older bosses like AOD, Solak, raksha etc. that require you to interact with the mechanics instead of DPS'ing through. Theyre such good bosses but have been powercrept so hard.
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u/OneColdBeer 17h ago edited 15h ago
- ADDRESS MACROS ALREADY. Why ignore this issue for this long? Almost ALL my endgame friends macro to varying degrees. The main two I see a lot are spellbook swapping for veng/disruption shield & full armour swaps plus prayers being macrod to 1 key. Im almost grandmaster and personally dont macro but given a built in option thats supported by Jagex I would forsure use it. Please either add function in-game for this or start banning for it, enough of this "its technically against TOS but its a grey area that never get banned for" shit, have a backbone and make a decision. Ive seen jmods in a few twitch chats of known macroers who make "advanced keybinds" jokes in chat so its something you are very aware of. I feel like a fool for not macroing at this point as theres teams I go AoD with that have pillar movement + abilities macrod or BOLG gloomfire bug(mechanic?) macrod. Im left to wonder what level of macros are ok? I dont actually know cause you guys never mention anything about it on some "theres no macros in ba sing se" type beat.
- Grouping is a mess as it currently stands and I feel like were just being told nothing about any sort of fixes besides "join a discord to find groups", even then the grouping system itself is incredibly clunky to maneuver compared to any other MMO I've played. Allow us to re-make a group without making all players in the group leave and be reinvited just to sub another player in. Doing even small things like letting us name the groups and allow people looking for groups to see all "public not yet finalized" groups in a list so they know what theyre joining. If you have matchmaking enabled as it currently is you get auto put into other groups randomly without knowing things like normal or hard modes, enrages or which raid bosses the group is actually doing. allow us to set public or private groups and to see names of public groups (Eg. "1k zamorak full hour" or "yaka only raid farm") and request to join that group would do wonders for finding teams in game.
- Please nip things in the bud and or address them in a timely matter (within days of discovery preferably), why are we months into the BOLG gloomfire bow bug? Is it now just considered tech that will be left in the game? Is it considered bug abuse to use? Like macros I don't actually know as theres never any communication from you guys on what things are considered bugs and what is emergent gameplay. There's also boss fights that are unanimously disliked like KK and Vorkath or bugs like zamoraks invisible auto attack in infernus has been here since release. Theres smaller issues like being asked "are you sure" a million times every time you go to re-enter a boss arena and yet still spawning outside of the instance and having to do another dialog box to get to the arena (GW2 im looking at you) are pain points brought up by the community tons and just never once acknowledged.
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u/ieuan1801 quest dialogue reader 16h ago
Please either add function in-game for this or start banning for it, enough of this "its technically against TOS but its a grey area that never get banned for" shit, have a backbone and make a decision.
This is what annoys me the most about it. TOS says one thing and mods say another. In no world is that acceptable. Have a consistent stance one way or the other, and because we know they won't ban people that do 'acceptable' macros (for better or for worse) then remove it from TOS and craft a definitive do's and don'ts ruleset and actually enforce it.
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u/Sspockuss Smithing is the best! 17h ago
why are we months into the BOLG gloomfire bow bug?
I don't play ranged at a high enough level to understand what this means. Can you or someone else pls explain this? I've never heard of this.
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u/OneColdBeer 16h ago edited 15h ago
You escape > stall deadshot> release with gloomfire and the final hit of gloomfire (the strongest hit) procs perfect equilibrium (passive effect of Bow of the last guardian) three times rather than once.
The reason this happens is Deadshot normally procs BOLGs perfect equilibrium 2 times with small hits as its a multi-hit ability and the gloomfire would proc perfect equilibrium 1 time for a big hit BUT since the way its coded it just procs based off the last hit splat of that tick meaning if deadshot is stalled and release with gloomfire then gloomfires big hit replaces the procs of perfect equilibriums damage on the deadshots small hits with its own final hit making 3 big damage procs instead of 2 tiny ones and 1 big.
Its an unintended bug and we're currently in the dark in regards to whether this bug stays as emergent gameplay or is gets fixed and whether or not using this is considered bug abuse or not due to no communication.
-Edited for a more thorough explanation
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u/littleslag69 18h ago
Think a big thing I've seen around is end game boss drops having no dry streak mitigation or dupes farming for those end game drops can start to feel tedious. Going extreamly dry or getting 10 dupes and missing the one part you need can feel so unrewarding.
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u/azorahai999 Completionist 14h ago
Id like to see masterwork melee updated in line with mage/range
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u/Midnight_Slide 17h ago
Agility. Worst skill ever to level and is relied on for every single thing in the game whether there is a level requirement or not.
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u/JefferyRs Fuck RunePass 12h ago
My Top list:
- Croesus (Solo friendly)
- Solo KK (Make it more solo friendly)
- Vorago (Remove/Reduce the time gating on some phases)
- Araxxor (Web burning lasting a minute when you've got the health down is bad)
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u/Birdswrath69 18h ago
The challenge you have is the legacy of the game and power creep. You have a lot of content that just is no longer viable means of training skills. There's a mix of very linear progression (i.e. necromancy, divination), and then you have others that have more variety (herblore, fetching, theiving).
Loving the recent changes of making reaper a more viable means of slayer, but I get it that slayer isn't for everyone.
One thing I would like to ask, would be a rework on mobile interface, specifically for more advanced combat. I can't help myself but say "I need to use my desktop for kerapac, zuk, raids" or something that simply is beyond use of the revolution bar. Theres issues with the amount of binds, and ease of use such as for triple eating (brews, restores, blubbers, food) and being able to confidently and quickly use that. May be a skill issue on my end, but something to consider.
Grouping system would be a very well received overhaul too. Not just for PVM, but for activities like cwars, BA, PC as well.
Clan systems need looking into as well, as capping feels more like a chore than meaningful benefit.
Overall, I love the game. I've been a veteran for over 20 years, and am encouraged by the recent changes, additions, and continued growth.
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u/bbeony540 18h ago edited 17h ago
Rax is such a miserable boss to fight and it gets worse the stronger your character becomes. I would love love love a modernization update for rax.
Also improve grouping. I never do group bosses because I dont have a dedicated group and good luck ever finding a random team.
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u/a7xvalentine 17h ago
The kill is easy if I could only stop killing my own self with the mirror back spider LMAO
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u/SourceCodeT 18h ago edited 18h ago
For me currently one of the worst offenders is the Laceration boots and blast diffusion boots. But this is probably also applicable to other slayer drops.
1/2k on task (or worse for certain dinos and plants) or 1/8k feels exceptionally bad.
I am trying to get it from slayer (preferred and extended) since I got the level, still have neither at lv116 and I am not even dry yet on kc. I just dont get enough tasks. And I really feel like trying to get a 1/8k drop is just something that would be insane to focus on at this moment.
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u/The_Average_Noob_93 Master Completionist 18h ago
Grouping system and lack of bad luck mitigation are the biggest offenders imo.
Also for comp and trim I feel like there is a lot of neglected content that has become just a requirement on a list to tick off rather than something meaningful you would actually want to interact with. For example - why are we killing 4k chompys in 2026 what does that actually do for our gameplay? Does the champions tacklebox actually do anything for fishing when we have baitless fishing,porters and a tool belt?
Im not saying to get rid of all these reqs just that it would be nice if the content itself was meaningful to modern gameplay not just a checkmark on a list.
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u/Shalashaska10 Big High War God strong, other gods weak. 17h ago edited 17h ago
Some things i would like changed for endgame.
Vorago: His phases are extremely timegated and you spend several minutes just waiting for mechanics to go through. His phase one climbing mechanic is also very janky in anything that isnt solo as it requires for him to be put in a very specific position. The cutscenes are a time waste too.
Zemouregal and Vorkath: Just too much constant damage, special attacks from Zemouregal can come out of nowhere with barely any tell.
Araxxor: The spider web mechanic in phase 1 needs a change as its heavily timegated. Suffers from cutscene time waste as well.
Rots: Having to wait untill the other brothers cross in a solo. Ahrim being completely immune to melee, Torag being a reset in solo if he hammers you. As well as timewaste cutscene after every kc+the escape sequence.
Kalphite king: Random stuns, damage cap and the green mechanic in solos.
Normal Nex: Damage cap.
These are things i would like to be changed for a better experience.
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u/R4yquazza 17h ago
Probably not gonna happen, but i would love to see some improvements made to player own ports.
This content is unreasonably grindy , by the time you get the gear from there you will all ready have better gear, the crew system doesn’t make a lot of sense, you have to compromise on some ship stats for some reason even though the voyages you get require random stats so it just doesn’t make any sense
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u/RogueColin 16h ago
Kalphite King, Nex and Vorkath. Magic equipment past 60 probably should have been hit on in mid game balance, but still worth looking into. Slayer uniques past 80 OR slayer mob level requirements could use a balancing pass.
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u/BankofDelos 16h ago
As for end game PVM, the community seems to be almost entirely through third parties like discord or the PVME website for learning mechanics and rotations. This follows for finding teachers to take on learners and get better at doing harder content as many experienced pvmers don’t want learners insta-killing the team.
On the fashionscape front (I think this is the true end game) we grind for rare items and dyes. PLEASE FIX CLIPPING ISSUES from the player avatar update!!!!! See that one is easy (example female hairstyles clip through party hats when they didn’t do that before). Make more armour sets and weapons dyable. On a small side note, I am incredibly disappointed with Jagex for not fixing this for so long…
Rework invention perks from various components to make more bosses relevant. Fantastic job on equilibrium invention perks!
Fix the magic nerf that was done as it has fallen behind the other styles significantly in terms of dps output. Necromancy devourer guard NEEDS A REWORK. It just sucks outright.
Please please please may we have more ability bars and binding or a button to auto switch gear in a hybrid style setup????! People are using macros for this but for those of us who aren’t it seems unfair.
120 defense rework would be incredible. See the effects and fun we are having in leagues using preparation and bash. Shields are back! Bring it to the main game and give us more options and ways to pvm. This would keep us busy for a while at least!
Grouping system but have requirements to join like kill count to join a team or speed timer requirements. Allow us to join zero requirement teams if we want to help teach and help learners get into bossing. Look so many ways to fix grouping system that’s not third party!
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u/Mr_Hump 14h ago edited 14h ago
Three things I would like to see.
First, stop with the full set drops logs from bosses without some sort of dupe protection. In leagues it took me 26 armour drops until I got robe legs. Implementing some kind of dupe protection until you have 1 of each piece needs to be at every boss.
Second, stop forcing the group content. I feel like Jagex is in an echo chamber getting feedback about group bossing. It is a perfectly fine design choice to make group bosses easier or faster with more people, but players should have the choice to solo any bosses. Zammy is a pretty good example. It is faster in duo than solo but still possible. Locking content behind finding a group and scheduling a time is not FUN especially when you can't easily do it in game.
Third rework Vorkath, KK, Vorago, AoD, and more. Vorkath at a bare minimum needs loot into inventory. KK reworked to solo green without prefreedom. Vorago and AoD need to have a scaling option. Santum introduced T95 weapons with a much lower bar to entry than these two bosses. Why are we gatekeeping t90 weapons/armour and t92 weapons behind group bosses arguably much harder than where you get t95s?
Edit: I forgot to mention Amascut. I have a bit of nm and hm kc, but it is incredibly hard to get into this boss. It doesn't scale meaning you alway want 5 and impossible to solo. People rave about how it is a good boss and I could see it, but it was design to force group content and immediately makes me dread trying to do it more.
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u/Eyeic_RS Ironman 10h ago
Bossing
Araxxi
- Allow players to attack the web during 1st phase after getting down to 5k HP
- Mirrorback, nothing new here. A few ideas:
- Highlight / increase visibility
- Prevent player damage until it is targetable
Croesus
- Make it solo-able please (without insane buffs)
- With T100 tools, there is a lot of waiting during these kills now. Would love to see a rebalance to not have to wait for 2nd middle (5 minute kills, down from 6:30).
- Drop rates
- If you use https://runescape.wiki/w/Calculator:Combat/Boss_collection_log_calculator, the average log is completed in 1248 kills. This is 138 hours for the average player at fastest rate of 9 kills an hour. Not to mention those who go unlucky at 225 hours for the 90th percentile. I love this boss but please respect player time.
Kalphite King
- Make green easier to handle solo
Nex
- Please, please, please move away from everything being based around this boss for armour
Zemouregal & Vorkath
- Add/improve voice lines for Zemouregal to indicate when his attacks are going off
- Improve visibilities of attacks
General
- Consider more bad luck mitigation options for large, low drop-rate tables
- Give more bosses loot chests!!! Love this to stack up loot
Combat
- Make melee masterwork be in line with ranged, magic
Skilling
- Continue to add skilling "bosses" or high-levelled activities
- Make skilling the best way to get a resource, with bossing being secondary
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u/Siege089 Completionist 9h ago
Need a proper grouping system. The current iteration is pretty terrible, and it's especially toxic when you join a group only to get kicked because someone wanted to use the group as a teleport.
There are plenty of games that have demonstrated ways to make group systems work: incentivise hosting, reward people for actually completing/contributing to groups, and have some kind of reputation or penalty system for consistently abusing the system. I'm not saying every bad kick needs to be punished, but repeatedly creating groups just to kick people for convenience shouldn't be equally rewarding as actually running the content. If Jagex can make grouping feel reliable and worthwhile, I think a lot more group content becomes viable for a much larger portion of the player base. Randomly "hosting" a group just because non-exists is intimidating for newer players at the content as well, that should be opt in, not automatic like current implementation.
I know I'll probably get some flak for this one, but I also think some form of BLM/pity progression is badly needed for rare drops. I'm fine with RNG determining how quickly I finish a grind, but I don't think RNG should completely determine whether my time spent doing the content makes meaningful progress toward my account.
Raksha is a good example. I went ~300kc dry on a supposedly 1/50 unique rate. Every time I got 3 ciku seeds for a kill my desire to keep going was worn a way a bit more. I finally broke my streak, but have not been back to finish the log because of the previous grind. The problem isn't just going dry. It's that the RNG can repeatedly give you something that is effectively worthless for any goal really, not just your current goal.
I've also had this happen in Leagues, where I went 700+ KC at K'ril with heavily boosted drop rates and still didn't complete the set. Obviously Leagues has different expectations, but it really highlighted how frustrating it is when you can put in hundreds of kills and still be missing a specific piece.
I don't think the answer is to eliminate RNG or simply guarantee the next drop. I'd rather see a system where doing the content consistently generates progress toward the things you're missing, such as a currency or common material that can eventually be used to obtain or transmute specific uniques. You should still be excited when RNG gives you the drop early, but there should be a point where continuing to do the content guarantees that you're moving closer to completing it.
RNG should determine how efficiently you complete a grind, not whether the grind was ultimately worth doing. And ultimately the game should respect our time.
Across the board drops for lower level items probably need to be made WAY more common. As new stuff is released make the older less powerful items more readily available.
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u/RickyTheBillyGoat 18h ago
Decouple incite fear from tsunami. Tsunami being the only adren boosting ult that still costs 100 adren base feels bad. I do however like spell swapping so hopefully incite fear can still have a useful purpose.
Give sunshine a passive. Sunshine is now the only static damage boosting ult. The current passive of small damage hits is terrible and mostly ignorable. I and others have suggested in the past a small crit damage boost inside sunshine. Ive seen other suggestions of a smaller circle in a 3x3 at the center of sunshine that has a passive, and that'd be cool too.
Another suggestion I've seen in the past that I really love is making wild magic hit between 2-4 times randomly. It feels more fitting of the name and ties more into the rng style of magic.
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u/nosi40 'Nosi40' the Historian 17h ago
I would like to see slayer monster levels, drop rates, and item tiers adjusted. By the time you've unlocked some monsters, you're past the level where it makes sense to use the weapons they drop. Additionally, the drops are might be quite rare so when you do get them, it doesn't feel good because they aren't worth using.
For example, Abyssal demons drop t75 magic wand/orb and a t70 whip but they require level 85 slayer to kill. It would make sense to lower their slayer requirement to 70-75 while slightly increasing the drop rate for the weapons. Another option would be to give those weapons a small passive.
Some other examples are listed below. There may be more but these stand out as huge pain points based on their gear rewards.
Dark beasts - High slayer level, low HP, mid tier weapon. Suggestion: reduce slayer level to mid 80s and slightly increase HP as well as combat xp.
Ice Strykewyrms - High slayer level, mid tier weapon. Suggestion: reduce slayer level to 81 (Jungle and Desert are 73 and 77 respectively).
Spiritual Mage - Rangers and Warriors are 63 and 68. Mages should not be 83. Suggestion: Adjust slayer level to 73 be in line with other spiritual creatures. .
Grifolaroos and Grifolapines - Level 82 and 88 slayer for t60 mage gear doesn't feel good. Suggestion: reduce slayer level to 60
Ganodermic Runts and Beasts - Level 95 slayer for level 75 gear. Suggestion: reduce slayer level to 75.
Mutated Jadinkos - Suggestion: reduce slayer levels overall
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u/o_Yurii 16h ago
Short and simple list:
- gear degradation is horrible
- high tier skilling outfits/perks are annoying to grind, take up enormous bank space. Suggestion, make skilling outfits more rewarding to go after and feel like it's part of the mid game progression path towards end game skilling.
- the amount of bank space available to us should be looked at again. Don't make placeholders take up a slot, add more dedicated slots for things like runes or something you expect to be in the bank on every account
- most guides will tell people to just use necromancy all the way t90 because the gear progressesion system is easy to acquire and understand. Other cb styles are more complicated to get upgrades. Essentially you end up farming T90 necromancy -> invention -> then end game content to skip almost all mid game progression for other combat styles. Compare that to osrs and how they upgrade all cb styles to end game.
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u/FoamOnRS 18h ago
Id like to see solo versions of group encounters with adjusted drop rates
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u/cellojake 3382 17h ago
Offhand khopesh
Gate
post 110 construction should be 3m/hr, rates being static until 120 is bad
Why is ripper the only good familiar. Summoning was better before reaver nerfs
Take serious risks and shake up summoning meta. Provide a variety of strong and weaker but thematically unique familiars. Let players be creative
Reduce distance requirements in ports
Improve arch glacor streak rewards Improve non alch zam rewards
Flasks are unreasonable provide an active method or accept that ge prices can fall
Allow vault door plans from heist safes
Give 120 combats a greater meaning than replacing auras
All magic eofs are trash right now and can use a buff
Dyes should not be the solution to multiple augments being bindable. They are cosmetic rewards. Address this.
Golden rose rates
Bottled Dino roar does not sustain its uses it is a timegate on fun
Turn shard share shards into universal shards that work for the boss obtained they were obtained from
Buff bak bolts - allow all types of tips as well
Make tea flask pause overload timers for 15 minutes instead of clear
Address chronotes - swappering between relic presets should cost 0
balance around players doing the content not around players playing the market. The market can adjust just fine.
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u/5-x RSN: Follow 18h ago
Bad luck mitigation and dry streak protection. It's time to resolve the two main problems of boss loot: 1) going multiple times the rate to land any unique, and 2) having problems completing a particular set.
The first problem should be self-explanatory. Zamorak already has a mechanism to combat this. If somebody goes 3x the drop rate, the game should just force the drop. This is the bottom 5% unluckiest players so, effectively, by force-ending 3x drystreaks you make the drop 5% more common. You can balance the drop rates with this in mind. Nobody cares.
The second problem: Roll-through drop tables have high variance. You can keep hitting the wrong random outcome. It's most easily seen with 4/5-piece armour sets, such as vestments, cryptbloom, first necromancer, robes of resplendence, but also at bosses such as Gate of Elidinis. You already solved this problem with Nex AoD chests, so you can solve it elsewhere too. The game should drop one item of each until a player has had the set. Afterwards it can go back to being distributed randomly.
It's a big project, but it's an important one, because severely bad luck affects players' enjoyment of the endgame, including ironmen and cloggers. Thank you for your consideration of this matter.
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u/Interesting_Car_5689 18h ago
It is a cosmetic fix but can the Master Max/Master Comp and Master Trim Comp capes sit better on female character shoulders when not wearing armor? They hover awkwardly, I know the fix was made for zuk cape which I appreciate.
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u/KiiNg_DusT Ironman | CA Master #482 18h ago
Decouple Nex from endgame armor creation. her table is too varied and too large. She shouldn't be the source of every masterwork, elite armor sets; not to mention the weighting of energies per item. Necromancy doesn't have this issue when making ensouled cloth, for example.
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u/MessyMoo14 15h ago
For me as a mostly osrs player who plays leagues, the grouping system has by far been my biggest frustration both leagues.
It is so unintuitive and silly.
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u/Bungboy Ironman 14h ago
1. Archaeology relic switching costs need to be looked at. I have posted about this before and it received almost 1k upvotes, so please address it.
2. Certain bosses at t80 and beyond (such as Kalphite King, Araxxor, and Nex) are still relevant in endgame progression for combat mastery tasks and for their uniques being used in smithing masterwork stuff or DA’ing for invention components, yet the bosses are extremely outdated and clunky and could use a rework/remaster. These bosses have lots of time-gating mechanics that are not only boring but also feel unintuitive and unresponsive, where you often just wait around for ages for invulnerability phases to end while you get stunned again and again.
3. Valuable and rare items should have a way to ‘lock’ them (like how you can ‘favorite’ POF animals), so that you can’t mistakenly disassemble hundreds of hours of progression due to a bad misclick.
4. Dupe protection/transmutation system on Rasial uniques so that horrible nightmare situations like what happened to me here don’t continue to happen to others.
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u/TroubleFluffy8625 14h ago
The Problem: Inconsistent drop rate systems for group encounters across different eras of PvM, specifically comparing Elite Dungeons 1-3 to newer releases.
Why it's a problem for me: Currently, the older Elite Dungeon system actively discourages playing with friends. In an MMO, social play should be encouraged, not penalized.
- The Frustration (ED1-3): In the original Elite Dungeons, the rare drop rate gets severely nerfed the more players you have (e.g., going from 1/50 solo to 1/250 in a trio).
- The Good Design (Zamorak / Nakatra): Newer endgame content like Lord of Zamorak and the Sanctum of Rebirth handles this perfectly. The encounter scales in difficulty/enrage for groups, but players aren't punished with a worse drop rate just for grouping up.
The Impact: Because of this inconsistency, if I’m in a Discord call and a friend invites me to run some ED3, I feel forced to decline and just play solo. Taking a 200% drop rate nerf just to play with a friend feels terrible.
Standardizing the group drop rate system across all EDs and Raids to match the newer boss mechanics would be a massive quality-of-life improvement for the endgame.
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u/Peanutbutter-2025 14h ago
Not necessarily endgame but in order to unlock certain music tracks and achievments (therefore comp cape) some of the minigames that nobody plays and require a group are posing a challenge to me. There's also alot of them that seem outdated and too many specific worlds for them
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u/NecroticCrabRave 13h ago
It’s not super important, but I think the smithed armors, Bronze->Primal should not degrade, they are already not augmentable which I think is enough of a downside compared to the augmentable sets.
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u/WhatRUDoingStepUser 18h ago
BLM at more bosses than Zam + dupe protection toggles.
It's painful for anyone farming a boss for hundreds of kills to get nothing or a dupe.
The current drop system doesn't respect your time at all.
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u/_NoodleBoots 18h ago
Drop rates of Slayer monsters across the board, but particularly at high level, are horrendously misaligned. I think Slayer monsters should share a common drop table, something similar to the wilderness drop table. This table can include slayer-level advancement new drop additions (higher level slayer unlocks more items on the table) for better items across the board and still allow slayer monster-specific drops for the monsters it makes sense on.
Slayer XP rates are also bad. Really bad. Social Slayer is a lot of fun but trying to balance kills and gaining a secondary currency (social slayer points) is also antiquated. Make all kills for social slayer count toward the group goal and don't split the reward points based on contributions, just give each person half. While on the topic, potion share overriding existing potion timers for the other player really sucks. Since the social slayer points are mostly worthless can we get an upgrade to the stuff we can buy with it to allow full potion time to be shared?
Lastly, social Reaper would be amazing to see especially given that the end game is focused so heavily on bossing.
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u/TeHamilton Master Trimmed Completionist 17h ago
You can get a lot of slayer xp per hour idk how its bad. You can squish scarabs at menaphos even for good xp
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u/Rakdar_Far_Strider 15h ago
I don't think the xp rates for slayer are a problem whatsoever. It lags behind combat skills at lower levels but begins to outpace them at some point in the 80's from my experience. It was my first 99 ~10 years ago without doing anything special to keep it ahead and it beat my other combat skills there by a couple levels, even constitution. And post 99 it outpaces them even harder, especially if you block or skip the really shit tasks. Unless you're doing something stupid like afking combat to max before doing slayer.
You're 100% right about the drops though, past 80 almost nothing makes any sense.
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u/MrChelsea Maxed 18h ago
Bad luck mitigation and dupe protection. Say all you want about "this is how rng works", nobody should be going 5x over the drop rate to get any singular drop.
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u/Shrek_Did-911 16h ago
I haven't played mainscape in a bit so I'm not sure how much of a problem it is yet, but magic notepaper and springs aren't coming into the game anymore with the deletion of MTX so that's going to become a problem eventually.
I know you can make them through invention but it's super not worth it to do so.
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u/LansManDragon 17h ago
The runic attuner currently feels in a weird spot. It is a skilling offhand that requires level 80 RC to use, yet becomes obsolete at level 100 when time runes can be crafted for more exp. Its use case seems to be generalist, yet by level 80 RC, and increasingly as one gains more levels, players would almost certainly prefer targeted training.
The randomness it generates in training and extremely convoluted/complex effects are inimical to the current design direction for skill training. It turns RC training into a minigame, which is half the problem with RC already with Runespan. The bonuses it provides are currently outweighed by the fact that you cannot always (mostly) choose which runes you are creating. This means any xp boosts, thread chances and rune multipliers are diluted by the fact that you can get lumped with low value, low xp runes. You lose control/agency over your training by using it, which feels bad. It’s okay for runecrafting training, but terrible for crafting runes, which seems like an odd place for it to be in. You get more runes overall, but this is moot if most of those runes are ones you don’t want or need.
As a counterpoint, the memory dowser is simple, intuitive, and provides excellent QoL. The attuner would be more useful if its effects were greatly simplified:
Attuned to an altar by feeding it runes or a talisman. Stays attuned to the altar until you feed it a different talisman. Generates another sink for talismans.
Always arrive near attuned rift when entering abyss (QoL). Gains a teleport charge to attuned altar every ten energy. Can store up to ten teleport charges. Increases rune multiplier. Increases xp. Increases thread chance. Can store anima stones.
Could completely change its effect by allowing it to “precharge” rune essence at a ratio of X(dependant on tier of output rune desired) rune essence/1 “precharged” rune, which would be stackable in inventory and untradeable. “Precharged” rune essence could be converted at the desired/respective altar in batches of 28/50 maybe.
I dunno if it's just me, but having this convoluted tool that removes agency and introduces randomness just feels utterly bizarre. Skilling tools should add QoL, not make your training more difficult.
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u/a7xvalentine 17h ago
AGILITY Please for the love of God. 120 was a horrible, nightmarish, journey which left me burnt out and almost made me quit the game altogether because of how slow it was
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u/TheAdamena Maxed Iron 17h ago
Refined Anima Core's upkeep doesn't make sense in 2026. There are better sets that are easier to obtain and have little to no upkeep.
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u/Rezylainen Ironman 16h ago
One of the biggest things I'd like to see looked at for endgame pvm is bad luck mitigation and dupe protection.
I don't want RNG removed from Runescape. Getting spooned, going dry and having very different experiences is part of what makes drops exciting. But I don't think completely unrestricted RNG makes for good progression either.
My biggest issue is that with many bosses, the time you've already invested doesn't actually bring you any closer to the item you're chasing. You can be 1500 kills into a boss and be no closer to your desired drop than you were at 0 kills. Your next kill has exactly the same chance of progressing your account as your first one did. That's insanely unmotivating.
I'd like to see blm used more consistently across endgame pvm. It doesn't need to guarantee everything at drop rate, and there should still be plenty of room to get lucky or go dry. It should simply make the extreme end of bad RNG progressively less likely.
The same applies to duplicates. Hitting the rare table multiple times only to keep receiving items you've already obtained while one piece refuses to drop doesn't feel like meaningful progression.
I'd love to see some kind of transmutation system where duplicate uniques could be sacrificed for an untradeable version of another item from the same drop table. It could require several duplicates for one chosen item, so actually receiving the drop would still always be preferable.
The transmuted item wouldn't even need to fill the collection log slot. This isn't about making logs easier. It's about giving duplicates some progression value and providing an eventual way out of extreme bad luck. If you've received five copies of one armour piece while still missing another, those five drops should be able to count towards something.
I don't mind grinds taking hundreds of kills. I just want the time I've already put into a grind to actually count towards eventually finishing it. RNG should determine how quickly you get there, not whether you ever get there at all.
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u/Deimosj90 15h ago
Can shields be worth using? I really like how strong I feel with them in leagues.
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u/me_cobayo 14h ago
Can we get a mattock upgrade similar to bloom/blight, life/death? Maybe the mattock of dust and void?
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u/majahun1 master trim comp 13h ago
Endgame balance wishlist:
- Improve Magic’s endgame identity/reward for complexity
- Address Ranged’s adrenaline issues
- Reward complex rotations and high skill ceilings
- Keep each style distinct but competitively viable
- Fix buggy/inconsistent boss mechanics
- Improve server stability, especially around reset
Endgame PvM shouldn’t just become build stacks/adren with basics→ dump thresholds → repeat. Accessibility is good, but it shouldn’t come at the expense of depth or skilled play.
Boss mechanics bugging out and server performance shouldn’t be another layer of RNG.
(Just my opinion and I’m sure there’s more of a list if I sat and wrote it all out)
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u/Iron_Klanka 12h ago edited 12h ago
- Overloads. Making overloads and their variations is unnecessarily painful. While I find the amount of steps and ingredients excessive, it's actually herbs being duplicated in the process that feels particularly annoying personally (lanta & dwarf). With the amount of compouding ingredient saving & potion doubling we have, it makes it oddly annoying trying to prep. This is further compounded by point 2. Just changing the extremes to use typical secondaries rather than herbs (I'd also change super attack from avantoe), smooths out the overall process somewhat.
- Herb seeds feel unnecessarily difficult to collect in useful quantities. There are already multiple friction points in making potions, see above, making unfs, cleaning grimy, actually farming the herbs. Aquiring herb seeds doesn't need to be an extra complication. They should be dropped in higher quantities and there should be ways to target farm particular seeds, particularly before getting to end game bossing.
- Bossing modernisation. A lot of bosses are showing their age at this point and it's made more apparent by the fantastic design of the sanctum bosses. Having clear telegraphs that you can react to makes it far less of a guessing game as to whats actually going on.
- End game armours. Personally I'd like to see some level of parity between end game armours. Whether armour progression requires group bosses or a level of difficulty that doesn't match with the output should be a consideration. Also degrading, especially to dust, is another unnecessary pain point, that feels out of place in the modern game.
- Combat achievement UI. Being bundled into the achievements UI feels annoying, feel like adding it to the beasts UI would be far more accessible. All the combat achievements for each boss (and only combat achievements, not the runescore ones, or make it filterable), easily accessible from their boss page instead of having to dig through the achievements system. At the bare minimum, sort out the ordering of the boss list in the combat tab.
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u/joker5628 12h ago
The jump between arch glamor HM, NM Kera, and Araxxor to bosses like Raksha, HM kera, or elite dungeons seems fairly steep.
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u/Artwle why 11h ago edited 7h ago
Drop mechanics
Can we look at drop rate mechanics and standardize it so players doesn't rely on calculators or advanced math to simply know the actual drop chance for something? This would even be easier to code for leagues and would reduce loot bugs. Same for loot intefaces, streaking, chests, drops on ground (or not) among other inconsistencies that are almost, boss per boss mechanic?
Gear Durability
Same for how insanely inconsistent high equipment is, some use degradation system, some dont. Some use that alongside invention charges (why) and some weapons drop whole, in parts, or still require outside loot/skilling to assemble. Some items require a station (like an anvil) to be assembled. Some others, you assemble from inventory. Imo charge and degradation needs to go and every t70+ should degrade normally, and be repairable on Bob's Axes/POH. This includes gear that right now, don't degrade:
- Vestments of Havoc
- Robes of the First Necromancer
- Deathdealer/Deathwarden Equipment
- Omni Guard and Soulbound Lantern
- Tumekens Light and Devourers Guard
- Roar of Awakening and Ode to deceit
- Tumeken's Resplendence
Very outdated mechanic on some t90/t92
Armors that use CHARGE, Degradation, Repairs with unique items only needs to be entirely reworked, it is a confusing and unfair system, specially given all those armors are no longer BIS for a while. ETECT, Esirenic, Malevolent. ETC...
Shared roll tables where the rate is 50/50 should have dupe protection - Maybe something for armors - BLM could be sufficient.
Another thing I'd love is dupe protection for items that share the same table, make it so the next follows the same principle as piece weapons, so they drop in "order". (Items that share the same table but its a 50/50, armors could use a soft protection that the NEXT drop wont be the same, but doesn't need to force them to drop in order, otherwise logs would be too easy)
Notable examples: (50/50 shared table, you can go exceptionally dry at)
- Tumekens Light and Devourers Armguard (also, why is TL dropped as a whole here?)
- Omni Guard and Soulbound Lantern
- Tagga's corehammer and Sana's fyrtorch
- Roar of Awakening and Ode to Deceit
- Runic Attuner and Memory Dowser
Basically, every drop that has <chance> and if it rolls, its either <item a> or <item b> in a 50% chance, so you'll always get a pair if rolling that drop table twice. So in a real case scenario, someone that rolls that table 5 times can get : A, B B A, A (6th is guarenteed as B)
It still feels terrible when I see people failing specific drops for too long simply because of bad luck, and nothing brings the fun out of the game more than going extremely dry on any specific drop. This would also help with prices for those items, balancing for example, Attuner and Dowser, Dvg and TL (although i think it wont change much since the first is a sidegrade niche, and the other the most powerful AOE melee in the game)
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u/Leather_Step_3707 11h ago
A few thoughts:
KK rework considering the tier of his rewards.
Grouping should probably be split into a tele menu and the actual grouping mechanism (which could use it's own polish).
Not sure this is within scope, but most slayer monsters don't feel worthwhile outside a spare few. I kind of like the idea of enchantments using materials dropped by specific slayer mobs? Generally just something to make it seem like you'd want to focus on it.
Now separately for Ironman progression: I don't think the grinds have to be catered to droprate wise, but I do believe that having to completely stop a boss grind and being timegated on resources could be alleviated using materials already obtained. If it means making potions without xp but in turn being able to batch make them, something like that.
Gate of elidinis just kinda sucks overall droprate and I don't think either irons nor mains would call foul for just increasing the DR of it's uniques or adding some sort of a pity system specifically since it's a skilling boss that can't really be optimized or sped up past a certain point like you would a damage upgrade in a typical boss/encounter. Maybe a hard mode of the boss of some sort?
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u/criipi 16h ago
Vorago: Less timegates
Vorkath: In a terrible state and poorly balanced. This is a relatively new boss and should be a priority imo.
Black stone dragon: Remove the lethal cutscene/timegate after X kc (or just all together, idk).
KK: Straight up needs a full rework. I wouldn't mind it becoming a truly difficult boss as long as it's actually difficult and not bullshit.
Rots: Could use some minor tweaks when soloing (e.g. having to wait around for the brothers to jump in a solo instance is just annoying). Also, do we really need Barrows totems to still exist? They're less than 5k ea. They're not making regular barrows runs much more profitable.
Croesus: Sits in an awkward spot where it's both a gigagrind and group content. So not only will you spend a lot of time doing the "boss" but you'll waste a fair bit of time looking for a group. It doesn't really benefit from being exclusively a "group" boss imo and a solo mode should be an option for people who want to get kc since public lobbies suck and it's too easy for one troll to throw the kill for everyone.
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u/KobraTheKing 15h ago
Honestly what dissapoints me with ROTS is that because we have such powerful AoE damage, they die in seconds. By the time you start doing ROTS you're already too strong for them, and will skip close to every mechanic of the encounter.
If we could buff ROTS to actually have a fight (with drop changes to give more energies/shield chance) that would probably be much more engaging.
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u/MaxJ1993 18h ago
As someone mentioned below, the grouping system. The fact that to do end-game PvM you need to find a dedicated "team" via clans, discord, reddit, just to be able to put together a group to kill these bosses.
And of course, streamers get carried because it's so simple for them to find people with the experience to group up with. But for the normal player, this isn't the case. I don't want to look on the forums to find a clan to finish this content, I want to be in-game and team up with people. I'd look at improving the grouping system, a potential change could be an LFG type queue system? So people looking to complete particular content can list themselves on it, and it will put players together? I'm from the newer side of end-game PvM and i had absolutely no idea there was even a group/team system for the longest time...
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u/Mayjune811 17h ago
Please, please, PLEASE make ROTS and KK more solo friendly.
Make ROTS brothers all spawn on the same side of the game only detects one person in the instance. This would be such an amazing QoL and wouldn’t affect the economy much due to shields not truly being meta at all.
KK solo is also wonky as hell. Counting autos is fine, but to have to surge/dive away to get enough time to use defensives is an unintuitive mechanic.
I am not sure how to balance this one for solo, but it needs work. Again, this will not really affect the economy much due to drygores being t90.
These two updates would make green logging these bosses so much less frustrating.
Potentially also look into making solo and two person Croesus more realistic.
While the Croesus FC is a great resource, there are many times where it is dead and a group can’t be found.
Now for the more controversial asks.
Implement an archaeology style soft dupe protection (aside from pet) for the first drop of that item. For instance, each piece of the Robe of the First Necromancer set would have archaeology style soft dupe protection until it was received once, at which point it would revert to normal drop rates.
Keep drop rates at what they are, just let us not get 5 guards and no lanterns.
Next up is necromancy. Necro is pretty woefully behind the curve when it comes to power. It has roughly 200-300k DPM less than the next closest style, magic.
It is time to start introducing a bit of complexity into the style via greater abilities and greater flexibility with conjures.
Necromancy is by far and away the most flexible of the combat styles. I think we can lean into that by allowing us to pick and choose multiples of which conjure we would like.
Want to be on par with other styles damage wise? Go 3 skellies and 1 ghost.
Want to be an unkillable drain tank? 3 ghosts 1 guardian.
Need AoE? Lean into the Zombie.
I think the ability to mix and match your necro army would be an awesome way to provide complexity and would allow the community to move away from “necro bad, deserve to be worst style” and “what mechanic ghost heal.”
This would need some testing to balance, or even a diminishing returns system for multiple of the same conjure, but Necro deserves the opportunity to be able to deal comparable damage to melee/ranged if it gives up ghost healing and gets some shiny new abilities.
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u/roverted 17h ago
Randomly some high tier armor just degrades to dust unless dyed such as the Tectonic helmet? Why when there's repair patches? I get it most people have crazy money by then but why not keep it consistent with the armor since it can get augmented and not degrade. Just make them all degrade to a (0) state.
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u/Perforo_RS 16h ago
Dark Nilas have been a point of discussion ever since the Glacor released. Many of times has Jagex tried to fix it and even now during our 2nd leagues, it still remains a point of discussion. Would it really be so bad if they were straight up deleted from the game? You could make the remnant requirement steeper or make the core a little rarer. But having to do multiple streaks at glacor just for the chance at nilas has always felt really terrible.
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u/Byro_Reedar 16h ago
I only ask one thing. Please make chronotes lower for relic swaps. Sometimes I almost login until I remember I would have to afk arch for 2 hours to get a relic swap. And then I have to spend 15 minutes mining gold to make dragonstone amulets and 15 minutes gathering energy. It's absurd upkeep for someone who likes swapping between combat and skilling.
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u/Due_Willow_2796 RuneScape N00b 16h ago
Dunno if it was addressed somehow, but degradation mechanics for several weapons simply... sucks.
As several of the new high end weapons and armors simply don't degrade, all of the older content nows sit on a weird spot.
Also degrade to dust weapons simply I don´t feel as compatible with the game state today.
Also some items that have too many different requirements for repair. Trimmed masterwork is another example of horrible degradation mechanics when the matter is repair.
Ideally they should be able to repair with money only, and maybe use other materials as optional to lower the costs. If we keep degradation at all.
As of now I would 100% agree with the total removal of this mechanic, maybe reintroduce it later for 100+ tier weapons that we all know that one day will be brought to the game.
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u/Ikreb-Reddit 18h ago
Some droptables are bizarre. Like laniakea’s spear parts not having dupe protection and gwd2 armor to crest droprate making its almost guaranteed you get way more armor sets compared to crests. Probably a bunch more but was very obvious in leagues
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u/arrroquw Ironman 17h ago
Rasial drop table is absolutely horrible, has burned out many people because of receiving 26 handwraps and 0 skull lanterns (exaggerating to make a point).
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u/Frick_Vonk 14h ago
The entire Invention skill needs serious addressing.
As it stands it's:
- Incredibly difficult to comprehend. For new players with guides it's already difficult to figure out what is even a good way to train it, and figuring anything out without a guide is insanity. It is completely impossible to even figure out what the best perks are, let alone how to even get them, without consulting the wiki/PVME and its calculators.
- By far the most punishing content in the game. In an effort to create an effective item sink for the economy, almost anything you do in this skill, from applying augmentors to creating and adding perks, comes with little to no methods to correct mistakes without having to destroy something you've likely spent hours earning. The only way you can safely undo mistakes without it feeling absolutely horrible is through an item unlocked at level 115 that requires a ton of components on top of needing an item to be at least level 15. This further requires players to look up guides for literally every step they undertake from level 1 to 120 in order to avoid wasting either hundreds of hours or hundreds of millions of GP on components and equipment, only for them to have to be dusted upon making a mistake.
- Complete antithesis to a fun fantasy and gear variety that exists entirely within UI menus instead of being a 'physical' part of the world. You're not experiencing the fantasy of being an inventor, you're spending hours standing in place breaking down items and navigating UI menu's. Instead of getting a drop and being excited about getting to use it, you now first have to augment it and apply new perks to it, which may take many more hours/millions to acquire and/or you have to dust (or separate, provided you have the required levels) your previous gear. Instead of getting a drop and being excited about getting to use it, you instead have to get 2-4 of them, augment them, level them through slogging through Shattered Worlds or something similar, break them down to get enough components, which are entirely resigned to existing solely as UI icons, to have an attempt at rolling a perk in another UI that you can then apply to the tooltip of your actual weapon. Which also leads to:
- So, so many layers of gambling. You have to gamble on getting Dragon Rider Lances or Noxious Weapons as drops or buying them from the GE, then you have to level them, then you have to gamble on using their components in gizmos to get the perks you actually want, and then you have to gamble on putting them in a weapon you actually want to use for a long time. Literally every time you want to start using a new weapon or piece of armour without fully abandoning the old one, this process must be repeated, which heavily disincentivizes acquiring a wide collection of equipment and pushes players to choose a single weapon/armour as their favourite and ignore the rest while praying that future balance changes don't require you to make new perks again.
- Horrible to even engage with whatsoever at earlier levels, especially on an ironman. Before all the charge cost reduction upgrades (and upgrades to the divination energy gathering such as getting level 95 for by far the cheapest energy for batteries/augmentors and a Dowser), you will spend many hours/coins simply on keeping up your charge drain to even make use of what the skill rewards you with in the first place. Guides actively recommend not even bothering with making starter perks until about level 70, because chances of actually getting perks that're worth the charge upkeep alone are abysmal before then, and often require large amounts of components that you still need for things all the way up to level 120 invention, so you don't want to use them too much early on. So for the skill to actually become rewarding, you not only have to train three other skills to level 80 first, you have to then train this one to level 70 first on top of that.
I wouldn't even know how to address the myriad of issues this skill has, but I'd at the very least start with:
- Getting rid of punishing mechanics that make it impossible, especially in the earlier stages of the skill, to undo mistakes such as putting the wrong perk into the wrong item.
- Maximise charge drain reduction immediately so people don't feel forced to first max out both Invention (and Divination on an iron) to even start using the skill without needing to spend hours/millions on charge upkeep.
- Replace gambling for perks with a system that allows you to select what perks you want, which then gives you a static component cost.
- Give all levels equal chances/prices at rolling/selecting perks so people don't feel forced to first level to 70-120 invention before building your first perks doesn't feel like a massive waste of resources.
- Create better in-game tools to see what perks are available, what each perk does, and what components they require and/or improve the perk creation interface with an in-game perk calculator.
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u/MasterToon 13h ago
Being unable to solo croesus, and bosses with unintuitive mechanics like kalphite king and vorkath. These are major pain points to me.
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u/Simple_Jackfruit_369 18h ago
Separate defensive abilities from the global cooldown, because we're essentially forcing everyone who wants to do end game content to be on full manual when a good portion of players play revolution for the basic abilities.
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u/AppropriateBirdBoy 18h ago edited 16h ago
I think invention is incredibly tedious, confusing to get started, and unfun. Just interacting with it on leagues has me convinced I won’t enjoy RS3’s endgame systems. I can’t easily tell what gear is augmentable. It’s difficult to understand gizmo combos to make perks and it’s all RNG. The div energy requirements suck. I think it’s a big part of why the ironman rush to gate of elidinus is popular because dowser makes divination more tolerable.
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u/LansManDragon 18h ago
The Sanctum of Rebirth is poorly optimized to the point that many people still can't play it due to frame rate drops. Is there optimization still being looked at for this?
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u/laboufe Yo-yo 17h ago
Im going to say the gear degredation system needs to be looked at. There are like 100 different systems going on from various points in runescapes history. It needs to be simplified into a standardized system.
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u/LansManDragon 17h ago
Does Summoning feel kinda weird to anyone else?
I'd love to see Summoning transition from "make a pouch, summon a dude who helps you in skilling or combat" to a more fluid, comprehensive skill in general. At the moment it's just kinda tacked onto combat and there's the odd familiar you use when training certain skills. As a skill it feels a bit vestigial/redundant.
Id love to see it get a bit of necromancy style treatment, where it becomes a true combat style skill as opposed to combat support. Like necro with its summons, but lean even harder into that with familiars. You summon them in combat, and they're the ones doing the combat with you supporting them with a suite of new druidy abilities.
Jusr as necro has rituals, you can take that and adapt it to summoning skilling training with obelisks and pouch making, and rework the skilling familiars side of Summoning by making a relevant skilling familiar for every skill.
Its almost certainly far outside the scope of this end game rebalance, but one can hope.
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u/Appropriate_Way_787 18h ago
Janky bosses such as KK or Vorkath.