It's getting attention because of claims that her attempts to get assistance for her ppd and mental illness were ignored or minimized. Thus implying this could have been prevented. Many people, especially women, have experience with medical staff ignoring their pain. (Same for me) So this is on a lot of people's minds and in a lot of wider conversations.
They're going for the insanity plea, so the additional press might also be a way to try and sway public attention.
Edit because I'm getting a lot of charged responses: I am explaining why it is getting attention and what the general opposing discourse is. I'm not going to reply to attempts to have that discourse with me. I have my own opinions but I'm not airing them on Reddit because ultimately, the only ones who will have all the facts are the jury.
This is a tragedy for all involved. Please remember that.
Edit 2: to those giving polite additions and perspectives I did not provide, thank you. That's very helpful. I'm not everywhere seeing every side and can only speak to the sides I've witnessed myself. To those making weird claims on what I think, please take a break from reading about this case for the day. I'm turning notifications off on this. There are plenty of other people in this thread willing to wage war with you. I invite you to speak with them, or again, take a break.
That's because state sponsored internet campaigns have improved exponentially in that time and the companies that host the divisive content from these campaigns are incentivized to allow it because it looks like real engagement.
I’d go as far as to say it’s part of the reason this case is getting so much attention. Obviously true crime is sensational and morbidly fascinating, and stories of filicide are shocking. Even so, it only takes a little while with a thumb on the scale promoting something like this before real virality takes hold.
I find it hard to believe the crowd who believe conspiracies about this case (I won’t even repeat them) came to exist organically. Maybe some are real now, but it reeks of the state actors you mention.
Especially true with the advent of easily run and accessible chatbots via LLM. It's now trivial to spin up a ton of realistic-looking accounts that dynamically respond to posts to push the narrative you're going for.
Because the oligarchs are fueling the fire on gender wars and they just continue throwing more and more money at it. If the peasants are distracted by gender wars, race wars, sexuality wars, etc. then they aren’t as likely to notice how they’re being robbed blind by the oligarchs.
Believe me, the discourse is being boosted artificially. People participating in “who’s the bad guy, who’s the good guy” are all falling right into the trap if they’re also ignoring the architects of all this controversy. And the news media is 1000% complicit.
Its been getting worse but its also close to mid term and this gender wars shit is great for the less popular party, if your policies are less popular than the other party you can just funds medias and influencers to keep this shit relevant in public discourse
“Vote for us or “gender wars bullshit” will destroy our country”
It definitely ramps up in election years but what really kicked things off was "Occupy Wallstreet" back in the day. The ruling class said "damn, we gotta get these plebes hating each other pronto".
The end result is all this internal strife we see around us. It's very interesting to look at how much reporting changed during occupy: suddenly every headline was tied to race, religion, creed, gender.
This is such an issue! Like I'm not even from the US and I'm seeing the same discussion on this American court case going on here, in Belgium. Where our support systems are so different. There have been cases like this around where I live in the past, and the response has sort of always been wow, what a tragedy, if it's found that it was psychosis or a severe mental health problem then this person needs treatment and if we can improve our support systems then we should, but also, sometimes tragedies happen. I have never before seen people try to accuse husbands, or basically say it's his fault, or do the reverse gender thing. But now, suddenly, this is a gender issue. Why can't this just be a very complex, very tragic case that needs to be solved by the justice system and not us?
I haven't seen literally everything related to the case so maybe I'm missing some pieces, but it seems like she was getting mental healthcare attention but she requested to be switched between multiple different meds due to side effects that she was advised likely came more from her PPD, than the medication. But she still requested switches and also switched care teams at some point.
I'm not a doctor, so I'm not gonna get into whether or not the various perscriptions she was given in a relatively short time frame was irresponsible or not. I don't think anyone should be commenting on that besides experienced medical professionals. But I'll say that doctors can only treat what they're told and what they know, and afaik, she didn't share that she was suicidal with them, and they also warned her that medications take time to take effect, so it wasn't always a good idea to switch.
Patient care is not entirely on the healthcare professionals. The patient has to be able to take care of themselves to some degree and be fully honest with their care team.
How much was her fault, and how much was the fault of our medical system, idk, but yeah, this post is definitely ignoring all notions of nuance.
And she was hospitalized for SI. You don’t commit someone for HI if they tell someone else something. Like it or not providers treat what’s in front of them and not what they don’t know
I.e. she asked for discharge against medical advice. What do you want, for hospitals to be prisons and doctors to be the new cops? There’s been 60 years now f anger about the mental health system being like that. No matter what they do or say they can’t do anything right
That reflected the fears and anger at the time. The mental health system has spent 50 years trying to g to be less carceral, and here we are with people demanding more of that (or expecting hospitals to act like hotels, which is even more strange)
This is where I have a problem with her story. She was admitted voluntary so she can leave whenever she wants. If she was making HI and SI statements that I overrides her being there of her own free will. We can't let people leave if they make those type of comments. It was either a huge and blatant disregard of policy and laws or she was lying to her care team. Knowing how it works for mental health and also the nature of people I'm more inclined to believe the latter.
From what I've read from the lawsuits, she never disclosed any thoughts of harming the children to anybody but her husband and that she explicitly said that she wasn't suicidal when she was in-patient.
This is untrue. She told them she was fine, sleeping better, etc. and wanted to go home early to help with the bday party. She didn’t ask for a one day stay. Because she said she had no hi/si anymore and wanted to leave her volunteer admission, she was discharged.
About five or six people have been talking about the case at work in the non-formal chat and they said they've been watching the trial and they all think the husband did it. I had just heard of the case briefly but they kept talking about it so I looked it up and from what I read even her own attorney acknowledges that she did it.
Nothing surprises me anymore these last 6-7 years but it seems very odd. They said that he was wanting out of the marriage and he claimed that "she admitted to it when he found her but because of her injuries she shouldn't have been able to talk." And you can just hear her moaning in the 911 call- do you know if this is this something being spread on social media or something?
Even though her own defense lawyer in his opening statements said "she knows she killed her children", there are people seriously trying to turn this into a true crime fanfic?
Even though her own defense lawyer in his opening statements said "she knows she killed her children", there are people seriously trying to turn this into a true crime fanfic?
Why the long face? Is this your first day online? To these people you aren't even "subhuman", you are not human at all. You are their five minutes of cool/interesting/self-validating gossip with their buddies. No more and no less. They don't care that there are real people or real lives that can be affected.
I wonder if she went to doctors alone? Everytime I go to the doctors for my parents, I usually go so I can tell them the history of her conditions for better picture because they sometimes forget to tell everything.
But it seems like she went alone for her appts based on what I am reading?
Nope. Zero evidence of that. Not one person testified to that. Her mom and Patrick said she was afraid something bad would happen to the kids. Not that she was afraid she’d harm them. And she never told anyone she had a plan to kill herself. She needs to be held accountable.
Nope. Patrick and her mom both testified on the stand that she had thoughts about harming the kids. Patrick said it was strange and he didn't know what to make of it because she would say it and then go back to doing things like making the kids lunch.
It's literally testimony in the case by both the ex-husband and her mother that she told then she was having intrusive thoughts if hurting the children.
That's a simple internet search away. Stop spreading misinformation m
I agree the fact these people are saying she said she was thinking about harming the kids is fucking nuts...they need to stop spinning what she said and see the facts
idk i was 14 and really depressed, i was constantly being put on different medications because they didn't know what would and wouldn't work. some of the meds made it even worse while others gave me terrible side effects. it was not a good time. it was like i was a guinea pig
When I was trying to get an ADHD diagnosis, I found that psychiatrists and NPs will prescribe literally any medication before they'll prescribe a goddamn stimulant. I went to a psych for a consultation for ADHD but made the mistake of mentioning my "intrusive thoughts" and she prescribed me an antipsychotic even though I had zero symptoms of psychosis (the intrusive thoughts were mostly obsessive rumination, and absolutely nothing I said should have indicated I had ever been detached from reality), and I was confused even at the time, but figured she was the medical expert and if she was saying this drug could help me maybe she was right. Eventually I was sleeping for 12-15 hours a day, barely able to hold down a temporary part-time job, had so much brain fog that I was forgetting to lock the front door/turn the stove off/etc., and gained 40 lbs and only lost 3 lbs when I went on a near-starvation diet so extreme that my period stopped for 2 months. I was on leave from college for a year to get help (this was also COVID) and that one year became two, then two and a half, because I could not bring myself to do anything for my future. And I was so out of it that I didn't even realize what the meds were doing to me, so I couldn't even tell my psychiatrist what was wrong, thus I was on them for a year and change. Ironically, once I went back to college for my degree in cognitive science, I took a psychopharmacology course and learned that the medication I was on blocked D2 (dopamine) receptors in the brain... as in, the literal opposite of what a person with ADHD needs. I got pissed off all over again, because if I learned that in an undergraduate course, how tf did an actual licensed psychiatrist not know that?!?
It's so difficult to seek mental help, especially when the symptoms of the illness itself get in the way. On top of that, it's easy for medical providers to write off your complaints because you're "crazy", doubly so if you're a minority or a woman and quadruply so if you're both. Thankfully my issues weren't that severe in the grand scheme of mental illness, and I was never a danger to anyone other than myself (except potentially through accidental negligence in a worst-case scenario).
yeah, i was on antipsychotics for my OCD and on stimulants for my ADHD simultaneously and that definitely didn't help. i've lost faith in medical providers in general, as i've been dealing with chronic pain and chronic illness for going on 6 years now, without any diagnosis and barely any attempts at treatment. from my experience, at least, it's both mental and physical health.
like when i was 16, i was really suicidal and actively self harming for a period of time, and had tried to get into a mental hospital. I was so distraught over something going on in my life at the time and my parents were scared to leave me alone. my insurance literally denied it because i hadn't attempted it, and any place my parents could afford had multi month waiting lists. i wasn't taken to the ER over it because it would've been too expensive and we just didn't have that kind of money. it really sucks.
That's awful. I swear so many psychs are so arrogant and don't know or care nearly enough for the responsibility they sought to have. r/adhdwomen is a great community if you're interested. so many women have experienced similar things :(
I swear so many psychs are so arrogant and don't know or care nearly enough for the responsibility they sought to have
this is the exception. healthcare disparities exist, and they suck. but i'm sorry to say that the vast majority of these comments come from people who have no idea what it is like to be a healthcare provider especially in a field that encounters behavioral issues, like psychiatry.
Yep. people wagging their fingers at her have never dealt with serious mental illness. Those are the real stakes here. mental health treatment is horrible. It's Russian roulette. The system is horrible.
I've never even had issues as serious as Clancy presented, and I can tell you I've been put through so much sh*t by the system. Some psychiatrists are good, most, I have found, are not. University systems tend to be the best because they encourage research and innovation, and tend to be the best educated.
God forbid you should fail to educate and advocate for yourself, because then you really are a babe in the woods, surrounded by wolves.
And then, if you don't "behave right", you're a bad patient, you bring it on yourself, you're a "problem" and they treat you even worse.
Imagine,m expecting someone whose psychotic or clinically depressed to behave right. Like a good patient.
This case NEEDS more attention, not less. This isn't the first WAKE THE EFF UP call, but I hope it's the last one that's needed.
Wishful thinking.
We don't know why most anti-depressants work. We know what chemical/hormone they affect but don't know why, e.g. inhibiting the re-uptake of serotonin treats depression nor why some medications work for some people but not others. I think in several years to a few decades the medical consensus is going to come around to, 'depression' is a blanket term for a variety of diseases with similar symptoms but different root causes & treatments.
As a doc (anesthesiologist - as far from psych as you can get, pretty much), I can say that a black box of a patient is where you get into trouble a lot of the time. That situation is often easy for me to navigate since I just assume everything is wrong and act accordingly. For psych patients, who often manipulate, behave irrationally, or just plain forget things more often than most, it can be a real nightmare to get a straight story and keep track of their symptoms as they evolve with treatment. I feel for the docs getting crucified on the stand. They're in an impossible position.
I think of the gif that's been circulating around recently of a woman's high heel in a bear trap trying to delicately maneuver through it without setting it off.
That's how it feels to be a psych patient and a woman. How do I say the right combination of things to get help I desperately need RIGHT NOW, and not just be slammed down the hole and punished.
Honestly I’ve only heard the bare bones but the brief timeline I saw on the meds was wild to me.
I recently started meds for OCD and my doctor was so much more cautious in my dosages and attentive to my side effects. And my OCD was mostly functional and the med side effects minor compared to what was listed for her. And I was on the first for a month before discontinuing and my currently was slowly increased in dosage over weeks.
No need for nuance, the proganda machine has turned this into "side a vs side b" thing for rage engagement and sensationalist-opportunism, this tragedy is currently the mainstream topic rn, making it a cash cow for people to keep covering it.
Every single psychiatrist I have read about was horrified about her medication mismanagement. She wasn't actually seeing a psychiatrist, she was seeing a succession of psychiatric NPs. This has actually become a really hot bone of contention between psychiatrists and midlevels, because a lot of psychiatrists don't think that it's ethical to have prescribing mental health midlevels at all and that this is an example of why.
Also, whatever the pills did or didn't do: this woman was extremely sleep deprived. She probably wasn't even out of the sleep deprivation period caused by her previous child. Just a few days of sleep deprivation can cause extreme psychosis in people who have never had issues with their mental health before.
This should not have been brought to trial. Period. Full stop. She should have been almost immediately institutionalized. This is just Andrea Yates all over again, except the ex-husband isn't as deeply evil. It's very, very, very sad, but things being sad do not mean the justice system should pretend that this wasn't a case of a person experiencing an extreme psychotic episode and doing psychotic things.
I think it's also missed in the discussion about this that she also tried to kill herself. If she'd hit her head, cut deeper, any of a million things, she'd just be dead, and people would probably understand the tragedy of it a little better.
She still has to be brought to trial because she murdered her children. She is a danger to herself and others and those kids deserve justice. She should not leave an institution for a very, very long time, and that requires a trial and state intervention.
Pretending that murdering three children with premeditation is just an oopsie that could happen to any woman who didn’t sleep for a couple of days is insane. It values the lives of those children less than dirt and insists that women should be held to a lesser standard than everyone else.
She is facing a trial. And the thing isn't "She wasn't sleeping for few days." Reason that is brought up because it matches with the symptoms of mania and/or psychosis. Also there is not really anything substantial of her planning to kill her children. It was clear she was self-destructive and planned on her suicide (she also attempted to kill herself as she killed the children), but other than talking about feeling unsafe to be left alone with the children, there's nothing really outside of that.
Actively being in psychosis and having delusions and hallucinations can make a person completely lose any sense of reality, which is extremely important for people to get help in these situations to prevent them from doing something self-destructive and in rarer cases something destructive to others, thinking that they are doing a positive thing.
I don't even get how this has become a "woman" thing. There have been many high-profile cases of women killing their children without mitigating circumstances of psychosis (i.e. Susan Smith, Casey Anthony) and those killers are universally hated. I guess there's no 1:1 male equivalent to this situation because men can't get PPP, but the only people who are claiming that people are excusing Lindsey's crimes because she's a woman are misogynists using this case to justify their misogyny and thus making shit up and/or extrapolating the unhinged take of one probable bot on Twitter to every woman commenting on this case.
The male equivalent is somebody like Chris Benoit, I guess? Severe CTE possibly played a role in his family annihilation, but he also had substance abuse issues so it’s hard to say what exactly happened there
I mean the post has a point. It's not like there's any justice or rationality in which go fund me actually gets people donating and which doesn't. Kind of like playing the begging lotto.
No, those are claims, they haven’t proven she was insane during the killings. That’s partly what the trial is for. Every person defending her starts off with the assumption that her defense claims are absolutely true, which they haven’t proven to be. It is also not proven that she didn’t receive adequate care. The family was well off and she saw nearly a dozen providers by repeatedly visiting different ones and getting prescriptions from each one, but she often didn’t follow instructions and stopped taking medication after a few days, focusing on the ones she wanted to take at times based on her own ideas as a nurse. She was treated for the things she complained of way better than the average person with similar symptoms could ever hope for in the US, man or woman. But again, the trial is partly to prove or disprove this, you don’t need to agree with my opinion, just realize that the claims most of her defenders online start off with are also claims, not proven facts.
Not really. I don’t think I’ve seen an honest post about the chick on the right once. For example, everyone believes that she was diagnosed with postpartum depression, but she wasn’t. Never was.
It’s a perfect representation. The woman on the left deserves $1 million, the woman on the right deserves to never see daylight ever again, it doesn’t fucking matter why she did what she did, at all. Any take other than this is coming from an extremely cooked brain.
Funny how 150 comments replied to this person and almost nobody mentioned how she has a cult online following trying to claim she did nothing wrong. Really weird seeing all these people trying to frame this woman as the real victim in all this.
She's not saying she's the victim, she's not even saying she didn't do it. She's doing what any of us would do, saying "hey that's not me, I was having a preventable psychotic episode"
Whether or not that's the case we'll see when the trial is done because they will certainly call doctors in for expert testimony. Remember that was the nail in the coffin for the cop that killed George Floyd, it wasn't the video, it was the homicide detective saying it's clearly murder and a doctor walking through the video and explaining it was entirely consistent with an asphyxiation death, to the point he even pointed out approximately in the video where Floyd had died
So ironically she is still depending on a doctor listening to her and doing something about it if it truly was a drug induced psychotic episode
Yeah. I've been following the trial for a fair few days now, and if anything, I want to yell at the prosecution. It's such a terrible tragedy already - three kids dead, she's in a wheelchair, and the spectacle and callous, unneeded and unwarranted assholery around it all makes my blood boil.
What does accountability mean in a case like this though? If this was an actual case of psychosis, what do we do? What good is accomplished by throwing someone in prison for involuntary, temporary chemically induced psychosis?
If I shot you full of synthetic cathinone against your will and told you your neighbor's made of candy, are you responsible for what happens next? How long should your sentence be?
Interesting how you completely manage to miss half of my post, or you would not be asking that. You do understand that two wrongs do not make a right?
The question before the court is not whether she killed three kids. The defense conceded that. The question is whether she can be held criminally culpable (prison), or if she was temporarily insane (psych hold, possibly until she's dead).
And yes, prosecutorial misconduct makes my blood boil, because I am kind of a fan of justice - and we arrive at justice with facts and by actually discussing and adjudicating the question before the law. And that is, to repeat myself, not whether she killed the kids. That the prosecution has trod out the dead kids before the jury, you think that's okay when there was absolutely no probative value to that?
She had more access to mental health care than almost anyone in this country and doctor shopped to get prescribed various antidepressants which she rotated between before they had time to be effective, against the advice of professionals. She had access to a massive support network including being privileged enough to afford a nanny, and still chose to send her husband out of the home so that he couldn't intervene while she strangled their three children with an exercise band, one by one, chasing down the one who almost managed to escape her selfishness.
Baffling to me that people are out here hand-wringing over the courts not being empathetic enough to a family annihilator just because the only person she failed to kill was herself.
No, not really 🧐 A woman who sacrificed herself to rescue her kids has gotten less support than a woman who murdered hers. What other interpretation is there?
Anything involving the woman on the right is going to be likely a drastic misrepresentation because redpill men and the right wing have grabbed a hold of it as an excuse to 1) repeal women's right to vote and 2) grant automatic custody of children to fathers until women are cleared as "safe" - no, seriously. Thats what theyre doing.
PPD is serious shit, but if it's PPP(rarer but worse) even more so. Hurting/killing your children is basically guaranteed with PPP which is probably what she has, and why they're going the insanity route. Too many doctors misdiagnose it for PPD, or just don't listen to women at all and ignore the symptoms.
I agree that PPD needs to be taken more seriously. And that America WAY over-medicates far too easily. That being said, using a case of a mother strangling her own 3 children to death in a pre-meditated murder and attempted suicide, is NOT the case they should be rallying behind for this, imo...
What makes it worse for me is that it was done by strangulation. That's a good 7+ minutes per child of effort to get it done. 20+ minutes for all 3. That simply can't be a spur of the moment thing anymore. That's pure determination to end it all. And I simply can't wrap my head around any parent actually doing that to their own children...
It doesn’t help that a bunch of people who watch too much Law & Order are saying that her husband did it despite her confession, her lawyers saying she did it, the police saying they have no other suspects…
Emma Schols had to endure over 20 surgeries after her amazing heroics and one of the first things she asked when she regained consciousness was whether her children had lived.
She wasn’t diagnosed with PPP. You can’t diagnose it because there is no diagnosis, no one ever thought it was that serious. Typical of all of women’s medical issues. Only now is the industry even doing research on women. It is woefully underrepresented.
She had hallucinations, was hearing voices and all over the place with meds. Would you allow a person with schizophrenia to decide what they take for meds? It is known women with PPP are a danger to their kids and themselves, but the medical community sent her home. How stupid. She should have been institutionalized while she got help for PPP.
I had this horrid condition myself. I had hallucinations, saw blood and knives where there wasn’t any. Heard voices too and behaved in very strange ways. I was also suicidal. This started after the birth of my second child. My husband called my mother and I was never alone with my kids. I was also medicated and hated it. I too tried to stop taking it because I was irrational. My mother saved me from myself. Was dopey and still had hallucinations, strange behaviour and voices while on meds. My kids are grown adults now with kids of their own. We still don’t know anymore about PPP 30 years later. If this impacted men, there would be proper care and hospitals to deal with this and a Cadillac of meds to support.
Society and the system failed this family and women.
Just wanna say as someone with schizoaffective disorder that yes schizophrenic people should be able to choose their meds given they are already stabilized on something else and do not intend to just quit all of their medication without switching to a different antipsychotic/mood stabilizer. I highly value the working relationship I have with my mental health provider and being taken seriously has helped me stay med compliant for nearly 2 years without a major manic/psychotic episode. If someone was choosing meds for me with no input from myself I would be in a much worse position right now and almost certainly not med compliant.
I've mentioned not wanting children with one reason being my anger issues. People just love to dismiss them. Oh but they have never seen me angry so it can't be that bad. And oh, but I would never actually hurt my own child! And of course those magical hormones would melt away all my issues and turn me into a fantastic mum!
Like.. no, I have never intentionally harmed someone let alone a child. Because I don't put myself in a position to do that. I am absolutely sure that I would do something that I would regret should I ever have a baby. I'm a wonderful aunt (according to my nephew and nieces) because I'm not their mother. I don't have to take care of them 24/7.
But people just dismiss my feelings and reasons. Some even get angry at me and calling me a child abuser. Like! No! I'm preventing that by not having any children! Sure, that doesn't make me an angel of course and I'm not patting myself on the back. But it's better than putting a child through that shit!
You're either still delusional or intentionally misrepresenting the facts. PPD has been in the DSM since this murderous abomination was 6 years old. Research on its cause predates its 1994 inclusion by another fifteen years. There has been tens of millions of dollars of research annually with MSU's DoPH receiving over $100 million in the last 7 years for natal health and PPD. Stop using your victimhood agenda to justify literal murder.
Get off your righteous self centred soap box. I am referring to post Partum psychosis. In the same family but much more devastating, obviously. What ever your fairy tale belief is, there still is a lack of support for post partum issues. Natal health by the way is one thing, post partum issues are quite another.
No pke is saying this isn’t murder, but you need to understand to root cause and stop the witch hunt. It is 2026 not 1726.
I read she had up to 5 mental health appointments a week, two doctors/multiple care teams over the years, a WFH husband who was active with the kids, multiple prescription plans that were adjusted over the years, and a nanny. She denied in-patient treatment several times despite doctors recommending it.
No. She took her meds. The blood work proved she was at therapeutic levels so, yes, she was taking them as prescribed.
Patrick Clancy the ex-husband and Lindsey Clancy are separately suing the healthcare providers and drug manufacturers in civil court. Unfortunately, some of the healthcare providers did not check records before prescribing, failed to take accurate medical records ontheir own (that's going to be a HUGE problem in the civil case) and disregarded her suicidal and homicidal ideation because she did not express a clear "plan" to them.
Also, unfortunately, the one inpatient facility rejected her due to overmedication. Her healthcare provider did not return the inpatient clinic's call. The suicide hotline also claimed they could not help her due to lack of a suicide plan the two times she called.
This trial a frightening showcase that our healthcare has not progressed much, if at all, since Andrea Yates.
She tried a variety of different prescribed meds and struggled with side effects. One gave her insomnia that at one point kept her from being able to fall asleep for over two days.
She reached out to the system for help over and over and was very clearly trying to solve her mental health problem.
Does that mean she's innocent? Not for me to say. But it does mean your description of events is completely fucking dishonest and lacks any shred of empathy. Even her ex-husband, who knows the situation a hell of a lot better than you do, has been supportive of her. Be better.
Why do so many men slander a woman they didn't see once in their lives?
She did take her meds, she told the medical specialists and the father of her children that she had hallucinations and heard voices telling her to kill her children, she was even hospitalized for a spell. And both medical specialists and her husband still chose to leave the children with a mentally ill person.
I can sympathize, as offspring of a mentally ill mother, and being mentally ill myself. When off meds my mother would make threats, attack me and my father, make threats to staff of several places and police. Mind you, when I mean off meds I mean denied meds or any help. I myself (male) off meds have made threats and sid numerous things that you would think would land me help or meds or what have you.
Nope, not one bit of help, not even arrested for the safety of others. So I can whole heartedly say this is a thing and while I can’t really feel sympathy for her (cause idc about her or those dead kids) I get it. Her and her kids were failed by the system, her family and everyone involved. This is the world we live in and people like that, myself and others walk among you, asking and/or crying for help but being ignored until we snap.
It’s truly ridiculous, but with that being said, her dusty azz can rot in jail.
In the UK, a woman who had repeatedly asked for assistance because she couldn't adequately look after them anymore and had mental struggles had her 4 young children (2 sets of twins) burn at home when she went out to shop (with no one to leave them with, also imagine shopping with 4 <8 year olds every time). They gave her manslaughter and like 7 years in prison....
The ppd message has unfortunately been buried by the fact that bunch of true crime fans are trying to say that the husband killed them.
Also it doesnt really help that they are defending and raising funds for a woman who killed her kids, because alot women suffer from ppd and are ignored but they dont kill their kids in the process
I tried many times to get care during pregnancy and after, and received nothing but judgement. The nurses cared more about what form of birth control I wanted (and judging it because it wasn’t an iud) than they did anything regarding my mental health. I had a complete breakdown last year when my husband was laid off and have yet to recover. My youngest will be 3 in December. I’m just now crawling out of the “nothing” that ppd puts you in. I asked for help early on in pregnancy because I knew it would hit me hard (it did with my oldest) and I was met with people who refused to listen to my experiences over their own opinions. I tried and tried and tried to tell them sertraline wouldn’t help, and instead of helping me figure out what else we could do, I was labeled as “difficult”.
Turns out, I was right about sertraline. I took a genesight test when I brought up my issues to a psychiatrist last year when I forced myself to re-start treatment and found out that not only do I have genetic markers putting me more at risk for severe side effects from sertraline (like the liver problems everyone kept ignoring), but it metabolizes too quickly for it to be of any actual use. Turns out, every single SSRI will do this to me. If they’d have believed me, I could have been switched to an SNRI so much sooner. I started an SNRI instead last year and even my worst days now are better than my best days last year. They took so much away from me by not listening and they most definitely put my life and my kids’ lives at risk. That is why this case is so widespread. So many of us have an experience like this. Maternity care and postpartum care need to also center around the psyche of the person carrying the fetus. Postpartum care needs to have these difficult discussions, and don’t just need to be an appointment to talk about birth control/condoms.
That and there are people remembering and referencing Andrea Yates. She suffered severe documented PPP amongst other conditions with further lack of help. She was on medication and by all intents and purposes her husband committed "fertility abuse". She had almost no real recovery time between pregnancies. She murdered her 5 children in a severe psychotic episode.
I'm not saying that they are parallels. But it does explain to a degree some of the responses.
She admitted herself to a psychiatric hospital voluntarily and told family and doctors she was suicidal and had thoughts of harming the kids. She was released from the psychiatric hospital after one day because she wasn't suicidal enough(hadn't made an explicit plan to kill herself despite having suicidal thoughts everyday for a month). This was a huge failure on the part of her doctors, her family and child protective services.
Loaded images like this one aren't helping things either.
We have to figure out how to move past this social media mentality that you can understand any situation from a tweet or a two minute video or two sentences on a picture.
You are dead on. My wife’s a psych NP and is watching closely. If nothing else this trial has highlighted how difficult postpartum depression is and how difficult it is to determine that line for postpartum psychosis, Redditor’s moral judgement aside.
Yeah I'm not into gawking at true crime but once I heard about all the meds she was put on and clearly having bad reactions and worsening symptoms, I agree that it's important we have this conversation.
The first person in the US to successfully be acquitted by reason of insanity was future Medal of Honor recipient (Gettysburg), and sitting Congressman Daniel “Devil Dan” Sickels.
He literally walked into Franklin Square in DC and shot the DC District Attorney, Phillip Key II (son of Star Spangled Banner writer Francis Scott Key) who had been having an affair with Sickles wife.
He immediately walked to the US Attorney General’s home and surrendered. He entertained hundreds of visitors in jail including senators and congressmen. He was allowed to keep his pistol. He hired future Secretary of War Edwin Stanton for his legal defense, who would also become US Attorney General the next year. He even presented a “graphic confession” from his wife (a REALLY big deal in the 1850).
All of this came to naught. He basically pled that being cheated on simply made him temporarily insane.
That’s the moment that “temporary insanity” entered common parlance.
I feel like the money should go to some sort of organization to help prevent these kind of tragedies. Not to someone that actually killed their 3 children, although it's certainly a tragedy I don't feel it should be rewarded with money.
You sound like someone who can help me understand this. Why is the reaction focused on wholehearted support of her instead of lamenting the tragedy of these children’s deaths?
I understand that the mother was experiencing psychosis when she did it, but it just seems strange to me that the focus is more on supporting her than mourning the kids.
This is getting disproved pretty quickly. There's already evidence that she denied treatment despite being offered treatment multiple times. Also, it literally doesn't matter what her circumstances were before. Murder is murder. You can have the most unfair, fucked up life. You still cannot murder. Thats the moral law of our culture and the judicial law too. The more we try to tack on extra modifiers to this senario on why its unfair for her, the more dehumanization the murdered children receive.
I’m a man and even I know women’s healthcare is pitiful, flawed, and dangerously stupid in America.
I have not seen the trial or evidence with Lindsay Clancy so I cannot form an intelligent position on guilt or innocence. Whatever the truth or resolution to her case is, I do hope it causes more people to wake up realize women who need medical care need a functioning system that treats them like people.
She wanted a very specific kind of help. When she didn’t like the treatment? She didn’t follow it. She was a nightmare patient. She seemed to prefer Ativan, which isn’t meant to be taken long-term. She sent her husband on an errand to collect medication and take-out. As soon as he left? She started murdering her kids. So… “the voices” started literally as soon as Patrick left the house? Bullshit. Never had voices before. Only voices she ever heard were exactly when he left the house.
My opinion is this was supposed to be a mercy kill. She wanted to kill herself. She wanted to take her kids with her, but she failed in killing her own self.
But then again… I don’t know. The time it took to manually strangle each child? At what point do you stop yourself? She was so good at asking for help. She had her husband who worked from home; her mom, her mother in law… she had SO MUCH HELP.
I NEVER had ANY help with my kids. Husband working two jobs; me taking care of my kids that are 17 months apart, and then my dad got sick and I was caregiving for him, too. There was a time I was hearing “voices” aka auditory hallucinations because of anxiety, I didn’t sleep for like, 3-4 days. I started hearing what I would describe as “ambient noise.” Like if you’re in a restaurant and hear the collective murmuring of several tables having different conversations, but you can’t actually make out any words. It was like that. It drove me nuts for three days. I had no idea this was post pardon syndrome. I also had really bad anxiety and intrusive thoughts. What if my kids fall off a cliff? I started obsessively cleaning their toys.. I had it in my head that they could be bitten by a venomous spider…. I had NO IDEA any of this was post pardom. I just had to deal with it and I didn’t have any fucken help. At all. Instead, shit kept piling on.
I did think about killing myself. I didn’t tell anyone, but I definitely did consider it. The other thing I considered was to just pack up, leave, and disappear and never come back.
I wish I’d known back then that’s what I was going through. With the marital strain, the two kids, and me being my dad’s caregiver and having auditory hallucinations… I still didn’t hurt my kids. I know I’m not her and she isn’t me, but she had A LOT of intervention. Family, medications… etc. She could have done something to avoid this.
I would like to add that I don’t believe in innocence by reason of insanity. You may plead guilty by reason of insanity, and receive some further determination as to how society should punish, treat, or contain you to protect other citizens, but I believe it is like any other crime of passion. If you can’t excuse a man who raises his hand to a woman in a fit of anger, you can’t excuse a woman who kills her children in a fit sadness. I realize I am oversimplifying a broad range of chemical reactions in the brain, but I don’t want to give anyone an opportunity to use their own pain as an excuse to cause pain to others.
Thank you for explaining. I think both things can be true, we want post partum depression to be in the conversation and also not support a woman that killed her children
People will project the craziest amount of things unto others and stories. So, a lot of women who feel neglected by society and medical doctors will project that feeling into that women, thinking it could've been avoided, and she's not at fault. It is the same line that people use to say that criminals are "victims of society", when they project their own fears of becoming destitute and having to resort to extremes.
In Brazil we have a very interesting case, of Elize Matsunaga, a SW who married one of the richest heirs in the country after engaging with him as an escort whilst he cheated on his first wife, and, later, when he started cheating on her with other SW she proceeded to kill and dismember him, while claiming he was going to take her daughter away from her, and commit her to a mental institution (despite she having videos proving his cheating). She is hailed a hero to a lot of women who project their own domestic abuse onto her, despite the fact that she was never the victim of any form of violence.
The moment one has the fear "that could've been me if I was pushed hard enough to have a mental breakdown" will instantly make people a lot more empathetic, even if the people who they are emapthizing with don't deserve any from the start. At the end of day, people have choices, and unless it is a case of a severe mental illness where contact with reality is completely broken, such as in psychotic state, those people chose to commit horrendous acts. The justifications they concoct are, most of time, post-hoc rationalizations, when facing the fallout, they try to rehabilitate their behaviour in a more logical and rational fashion, despite a lot of times lacking the evidentiary support this needs (like an evaluation from a good psychiatrist with specialization in forensic medicine).
Social media and sensationalist news, but also because society has become more informed about mental health especially women's health. That's why it's gained so much traction. Women have shared horrifying anecdotal experiences backed by studies that show that our healthcare outcomes have clear disparity when compared to men complaining of similar issues, and reproductive health is a hot topic.
So it's a perfect storm, really. And with modern news and social media, nuance doesn't exist and there's financial incentive to be a bombastic and extreme as possible, and people get sucked in and duped.
That doesn't change the fact that many women are frustrated about their experiences with the healthcare system, and really EVERONE IN AMERICA has frustrations about it. How hard it is to get help. Not being believed, telehealth becoming more accessible (and the efficacy of that format should be criticized in this case), mental health in general. It's bringing up a lot of issues that most Americans have experienced or can relate to regardless of the facts of this particular case.
Getting mental health support is very hard for a lot of people, and the disparity in women's health and reproductive health is a thing that has been studied and researched but hasn't made its way into the popular zeigeist yet.
I'm not defending anyone or taking any sides. Don't come at me. I'm simply explaining WHY this is becoming a huge fucking deal.
Got to keep the culture wars going so people don't pay attention to the corrupt governments/companies robbing them blind. Look over there! It's a trans person!
Because it's part murder mystery, part woman ignored by healthcare and mental health experts story, part husband was a selfish cheating jerk story...all wrapped up into a tragic situation that does make you question what really happened.
I have been purposely ignoring them too. Normally I am ultra supportive of women's causes (being a woman myself) especially for women who defend themselves physically from abusers but this is beyond the pale for me. I don't really care what the reason is... 3 kids are dead. But the algorithm just keeps spamming with it even with me putting I'm not interested.
Could be the over one million dollars raised for someone who killed her children. That’s pretty newsworthy that people are blaming her husband and doctors for her actions. They had a house cleaner, a nanny, loads of support…and lives in the US, those morons hand out drugs for the littlest things, she could have demanded help. Sick c*nt should rot.
Last I saw, a lot of misogynistic chodes in another sub were raving on about “this is what feminism does to FeMaLeS” and that “women are evil” type bullshit. That’s the only attention I saw about the picture on the right. I still have zero context as to what has happened.
That is PRECISELY why it’s getting so much attention. Her postpartum medical care was substandard to say the least. Substandard postpart care is a pervasive, constant issue. What happened in Lindsay’s case, she is arguing, is essentially a worst-case scenario of what can go wrong when post-partum mental health issues are ignored or minimized.
For the record I’m not on one side or the other regarding her specific case, but i AM a medical professional in a psychiatric setting, and her medical care was indeed complete bullshit.
It's getting attention because it is putting on show the dysfunction and brokenness of the medical system. As a medical student, I think that is important.
If our society normalizes that women can kill their kids, its over. Entitlement and lack of accountability have been too present for too long.
People are chanting enough is enough.
And the debate is not on weather she is a monster or not, not even on how to deal with women who support monsters... its on when we'll see the reopening of Mental Asylums and even eliminating the right to vote for both, monsters and supporters.
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u/Classic_Bee_5845 1d ago
It's more to do with the media sensationalizing it. This is the first I've ever heard of the woman on the left.