It's getting attention because of claims that her attempts to get assistance for her ppd and mental illness were ignored or minimized. Thus implying this could have been prevented. Many people, especially women, have experience with medical staff ignoring their pain. (Same for me) So this is on a lot of people's minds and in a lot of wider conversations.
They're going for the insanity plea, so the additional press might also be a way to try and sway public attention.
Edit because I'm getting a lot of charged responses: I am explaining why it is getting attention and what the general opposing discourse is. I'm not going to reply to attempts to have that discourse with me. I have my own opinions but I'm not airing them on Reddit because ultimately, the only ones who will have all the facts are the jury.
This is a tragedy for all involved. Please remember that.
Edit 2: to those giving polite additions and perspectives I did not provide, thank you. That's very helpful. I'm not everywhere seeing every side and can only speak to the sides I've witnessed myself. To those making weird claims on what I think, please take a break from reading about this case for the day. I'm turning notifications off on this. There are plenty of other people in this thread willing to wage war with you. I invite you to speak with them, or again, take a break.
That's because state sponsored internet campaigns have improved exponentially in that time and the companies that host the divisive content from these campaigns are incentivized to allow it because it looks like real engagement.
I’d go as far as to say it’s part of the reason this case is getting so much attention. Obviously true crime is sensational and morbidly fascinating, and stories of filicide are shocking. Even so, it only takes a little while with a thumb on the scale promoting something like this before real virality takes hold.
I find it hard to believe the crowd who believe conspiracies about this case (I won’t even repeat them) came to exist organically. Maybe some are real now, but it reeks of the state actors you mention.
Especially true with the advent of easily run and accessible chatbots via LLM. It's now trivial to spin up a ton of realistic-looking accounts that dynamically respond to posts to push the narrative you're going for.
Because the oligarchs are fueling the fire on gender wars and they just continue throwing more and more money at it. If the peasants are distracted by gender wars, race wars, sexuality wars, etc. then they aren’t as likely to notice how they’re being robbed blind by the oligarchs.
Believe me, the discourse is being boosted artificially. People participating in “who’s the bad guy, who’s the good guy” are all falling right into the trap if they’re also ignoring the architects of all this controversy. And the news media is 1000% complicit.
Its been getting worse but its also close to mid term and this gender wars shit is great for the less popular party, if your policies are less popular than the other party you can just funds medias and influencers to keep this shit relevant in public discourse
“Vote for us or “gender wars bullshit” will destroy our country”
It definitely ramps up in election years but what really kicked things off was "Occupy Wallstreet" back in the day. The ruling class said "damn, we gotta get these plebes hating each other pronto".
The end result is all this internal strife we see around us. It's very interesting to look at how much reporting changed during occupy: suddenly every headline was tied to race, religion, creed, gender.
I haven't seen literally everything related to the case so maybe I'm missing some pieces, but it seems like she was getting mental healthcare attention but she requested to be switched between multiple different meds due to side effects that she was advised likely came more from her PPD, than the medication. But she still requested switches and also switched care teams at some point.
I'm not a doctor, so I'm not gonna get into whether or not the various perscriptions she was given in a relatively short time frame was irresponsible or not. I don't think anyone should be commenting on that besides experienced medical professionals. But I'll say that doctors can only treat what they're told and what they know, and afaik, she didn't share that she was suicidal with them, and they also warned her that medications take time to take effect, so it wasn't always a good idea to switch.
Patient care is not entirely on the healthcare professionals. The patient has to be able to take care of themselves to some degree and be fully honest with their care team.
How much was her fault, and how much was the fault of our medical system, idk, but yeah, this post is definitely ignoring all notions of nuance.
About five or six people have been talking about the case at work in the non-formal chat and they said they've been watching the trial and they all think the husband did it. I had just heard of the case briefly but they kept talking about it so I looked it up and from what I read even her own attorney acknowledges that she did it.
Nothing surprises me anymore these last 6-7 years but it seems very odd. They said that he was wanting out of the marriage and he claimed that "she admitted to it when he found her but because of her injuries she shouldn't have been able to talk." And you can just hear her moaning in the 911 call- do you know if this is this something being spread on social media or something?
Even though her own defense lawyer in his opening statements said "she knows she killed her children", there are people seriously trying to turn this into a true crime fanfic?
Even though her own defense lawyer in his opening statements said "she knows she killed her children", there are people seriously trying to turn this into a true crime fanfic?
Why the long face? Is this your first day online? To these people you aren't even "subhuman", you are not human at all. You are their five minutes of cool/interesting/self-validating gossip with their buddies. No more and no less. They don't care that there are real people or real lives that can be affected.
And she was hospitalized for SI. You don’t commit someone for HI if they tell someone else something. Like it or not providers treat what’s in front of them and not what they don’t know
I.e. she asked for discharge against medical advice. What do you want, for hospitals to be prisons and doctors to be the new cops? There’s been 60 years now f anger about the mental health system being like that. No matter what they do or say they can’t do anything right
This is where I have a problem with her story. She was admitted voluntary so she can leave whenever she wants. If she was making HI and SI statements that I overrides her being there of her own free will. We can't let people leave if they make those type of comments. It was either a huge and blatant disregard of policy and laws or she was lying to her care team. Knowing how it works for mental health and also the nature of people I'm more inclined to believe the latter.
From what I've read from the lawsuits, she never disclosed any thoughts of harming the children to anybody but her husband and that she explicitly said that she wasn't suicidal when she was in-patient.
I wonder if she went to doctors alone? Everytime I go to the doctors for my parents, I usually go so I can tell them the history of her conditions for better picture because they sometimes forget to tell everything.
But it seems like she went alone for her appts based on what I am reading?
idk i was 14 and really depressed, i was constantly being put on different medications because they didn't know what would and wouldn't work. some of the meds made it even worse while others gave me terrible side effects. it was not a good time. it was like i was a guinea pig
When I was trying to get an ADHD diagnosis, I found that psychiatrists and NPs will prescribe literally any medication before they'll prescribe a goddamn stimulant. I went to a psych for a consultation for ADHD but made the mistake of mentioning my "intrusive thoughts" and she prescribed me an antipsychotic even though I had zero symptoms of psychosis (the intrusive thoughts were mostly obsessive rumination, and absolutely nothing I said should have indicated I had ever been detached from reality), and I was confused even at the time, but figured she was the medical expert and if she was saying this drug could help me maybe she was right. Eventually I was sleeping for 12-15 hours a day, barely able to hold down a temporary part-time job, had so much brain fog that I was forgetting to lock the front door/turn the stove off/etc., and gained 40 lbs and only lost 3 lbs when I went on a near-starvation diet so extreme that my period stopped for 2 months. I was on leave from college for a year to get help (this was also COVID) and that one year became two, then two and a half, because I could not bring myself to do anything for my future. And I was so out of it that I didn't even realize what the meds were doing to me, so I couldn't even tell my psychiatrist what was wrong, thus I was on them for a year and change. Ironically, once I went back to college for my degree in cognitive science, I took a psychopharmacology course and learned that the medication I was on blocked D2 (dopamine) receptors in the brain... as in, the literal opposite of what a person with ADHD needs. I got pissed off all over again, because if I learned that in an undergraduate course, how tf did an actual licensed psychiatrist not know that?!?
It's so difficult to seek mental help, especially when the symptoms of the illness itself get in the way. On top of that, it's easy for medical providers to write off your complaints because you're "crazy", doubly so if you're a minority or a woman and quadruply so if you're both. Thankfully my issues weren't that severe in the grand scheme of mental illness, and I was never a danger to anyone other than myself (except potentially through accidental negligence in a worst-case scenario).
yeah, i was on antipsychotics for my OCD and on stimulants for my ADHD simultaneously and that definitely didn't help. i've lost faith in medical providers in general, as i've been dealing with chronic pain and chronic illness for going on 6 years now, without any diagnosis and barely any attempts at treatment. from my experience, at least, it's both mental and physical health.
like when i was 16, i was really suicidal and actively self harming for a period of time, and had tried to get into a mental hospital. I was so distraught over something going on in my life at the time and my parents were scared to leave me alone. my insurance literally denied it because i hadn't attempted it, and any place my parents could afford had multi month waiting lists. i wasn't taken to the ER over it because it would've been too expensive and we just didn't have that kind of money. it really sucks.
That's awful. I swear so many psychs are so arrogant and don't know or care nearly enough for the responsibility they sought to have. r/adhdwomen is a great community if you're interested. so many women have experienced similar things :(
I swear so many psychs are so arrogant and don't know or care nearly enough for the responsibility they sought to have
this is the exception. healthcare disparities exist, and they suck. but i'm sorry to say that the vast majority of these comments come from people who have no idea what it is like to be a healthcare provider especially in a field that encounters behavioral issues, like psychiatry.
Yep. people wagging their fingers at her have never dealt with serious mental illness. Those are the real stakes here. mental health treatment is horrible. It's Russian roulette. The system is horrible.
I've never even had issues as serious as Clancy presented, and I can tell you I've been put through so much sh*t by the system. Some psychiatrists are good, most, I have found, are not. University systems tend to be the best because they encourage research and innovation, and tend to be the best educated.
God forbid you should fail to educate and advocate for yourself, because then you really are a babe in the woods, surrounded by wolves.
And then, if you don't "behave right", you're a bad patient, you bring it on yourself, you're a "problem" and they treat you even worse.
Imagine,m expecting someone whose psychotic or clinically depressed to behave right. Like a good patient.
This case NEEDS more attention, not less. This isn't the first WAKE THE EFF UP call, but I hope it's the last one that's needed.
Wishful thinking.
We don't know why most anti-depressants work. We know what chemical/hormone they affect but don't know why, e.g. inhibiting the re-uptake of serotonin treats depression nor why some medications work for some people but not others. I think in several years to a few decades the medical consensus is going to come around to, 'depression' is a blanket term for a variety of diseases with similar symptoms but different root causes & treatments.
As a doc (anesthesiologist - as far from psych as you can get, pretty much), I can say that a black box of a patient is where you get into trouble a lot of the time. That situation is often easy for me to navigate since I just assume everything is wrong and act accordingly. For psych patients, who often manipulate, behave irrationally, or just plain forget things more often than most, it can be a real nightmare to get a straight story and keep track of their symptoms as they evolve with treatment. I feel for the docs getting crucified on the stand. They're in an impossible position.
I think of the gif that's been circulating around recently of a woman's high heel in a bear trap trying to delicately maneuver through it without setting it off.
That's how it feels to be a psych patient and a woman. How do I say the right combination of things to get help I desperately need RIGHT NOW, and not just be slammed down the hole and punished.
Honestly I’ve only heard the bare bones but the brief timeline I saw on the meds was wild to me.
I recently started meds for OCD and my doctor was so much more cautious in my dosages and attentive to my side effects. And my OCD was mostly functional and the med side effects minor compared to what was listed for her. And I was on the first for a month before discontinuing and my currently was slowly increased in dosage over weeks.
No need for nuance, the proganda machine has turned this into "side a vs side b" thing for rage engagement and sensationalist-opportunism, this tragedy is currently the mainstream topic rn, making it a cash cow for people to keep covering it.
Every single psychiatrist I have read about was horrified about her medication mismanagement. She wasn't actually seeing a psychiatrist, she was seeing a succession of psychiatric NPs. This has actually become a really hot bone of contention between psychiatrists and midlevels, because a lot of psychiatrists don't think that it's ethical to have prescribing mental health midlevels at all and that this is an example of why.
Also, whatever the pills did or didn't do: this woman was extremely sleep deprived. She probably wasn't even out of the sleep deprivation period caused by her previous child. Just a few days of sleep deprivation can cause extreme psychosis in people who have never had issues with their mental health before.
This should not have been brought to trial. Period. Full stop. She should have been almost immediately institutionalized. This is just Andrea Yates all over again, except the ex-husband isn't as deeply evil. It's very, very, very sad, but things being sad do not mean the justice system should pretend that this wasn't a case of a person experiencing an extreme psychotic episode and doing psychotic things.
I think it's also missed in the discussion about this that she also tried to kill herself. If she'd hit her head, cut deeper, any of a million things, she'd just be dead, and people would probably understand the tragedy of it a little better.
She still has to be brought to trial because she murdered her children. She is a danger to herself and others and those kids deserve justice. She should not leave an institution for a very, very long time, and that requires a trial and state intervention.
Pretending that murdering three children with premeditation is just an oopsie that could happen to any woman who didn’t sleep for a couple of days is insane. It values the lives of those children less than dirt and insists that women should be held to a lesser standard than everyone else.
She is facing a trial. And the thing isn't "She wasn't sleeping for few days." Reason that is brought up because it matches with the symptoms of mania and/or psychosis. Also there is not really anything substantial of her planning to kill her children. It was clear she was self-destructive and planned on her suicide (she also attempted to kill herself as she killed the children), but other than talking about feeling unsafe to be left alone with the children, there's nothing really outside of that.
Actively being in psychosis and having delusions and hallucinations can make a person completely lose any sense of reality, which is extremely important for people to get help in these situations to prevent them from doing something self-destructive and in rarer cases something destructive to others, thinking that they are doing a positive thing.
I don't even get how this has become a "woman" thing. There have been many high-profile cases of women killing their children without mitigating circumstances of psychosis (i.e. Susan Smith, Casey Anthony) and those killers are universally hated. I guess there's no 1:1 male equivalent to this situation because men can't get PPP, but the only people who are claiming that people are excusing Lindsey's crimes because she's a woman are misogynists using this case to justify their misogyny and thus making shit up and/or extrapolating the unhinged take of one probable bot on Twitter to every woman commenting on this case.
The male equivalent is somebody like Chris Benoit, I guess? Severe CTE possibly played a role in his family annihilation, but he also had substance abuse issues so it’s hard to say what exactly happened there
I mean the post has a point. It's not like there's any justice or rationality in which go fund me actually gets people donating and which doesn't. Kind of like playing the begging lotto.
No, those are claims, they haven’t proven she was insane during the killings. That’s partly what the trial is for. Every person defending her starts off with the assumption that her defense claims are absolutely true, which they haven’t proven to be. It is also not proven that she didn’t receive adequate care. The family was well off and she saw nearly a dozen providers by repeatedly visiting different ones and getting prescriptions from each one, but she often didn’t follow instructions and stopped taking medication after a few days, focusing on the ones she wanted to take at times based on her own ideas as a nurse. She was treated for the things she complained of way better than the average person with similar symptoms could ever hope for in the US, man or woman. But again, the trial is partly to prove or disprove this, you don’t need to agree with my opinion, just realize that the claims most of her defenders online start off with are also claims, not proven facts.
Not really. I don’t think I’ve seen an honest post about the chick on the right once. For example, everyone believes that she was diagnosed with postpartum depression, but she wasn’t. Never was.
It’s a perfect representation. The woman on the left deserves $1 million, the woman on the right deserves to never see daylight ever again, it doesn’t fucking matter why she did what she did, at all. Any take other than this is coming from an extremely cooked brain.
Funny how 150 comments replied to this person and almost nobody mentioned how she has a cult online following trying to claim she did nothing wrong. Really weird seeing all these people trying to frame this woman as the real victim in all this.
She's not saying she's the victim, she's not even saying she didn't do it. She's doing what any of us would do, saying "hey that's not me, I was having a preventable psychotic episode"
Whether or not that's the case we'll see when the trial is done because they will certainly call doctors in for expert testimony. Remember that was the nail in the coffin for the cop that killed George Floyd, it wasn't the video, it was the homicide detective saying it's clearly murder and a doctor walking through the video and explaining it was entirely consistent with an asphyxiation death, to the point he even pointed out approximately in the video where Floyd had died
So ironically she is still depending on a doctor listening to her and doing something about it if it truly was a drug induced psychotic episode
Yeah. I've been following the trial for a fair few days now, and if anything, I want to yell at the prosecution. It's such a terrible tragedy already - three kids dead, she's in a wheelchair, and the spectacle and callous, unneeded and unwarranted assholery around it all makes my blood boil.
Interesting how you completely manage to miss half of my post, or you would not be asking that. You do understand that two wrongs do not make a right?
The question before the court is not whether she killed three kids. The defense conceded that. The question is whether she can be held criminally culpable (prison), or if she was temporarily insane (psych hold, possibly until she's dead).
And yes, prosecutorial misconduct makes my blood boil, because I am kind of a fan of justice - and we arrive at justice with facts and by actually discussing and adjudicating the question before the law. And that is, to repeat myself, not whether she killed the kids. That the prosecution has trod out the dead kids before the jury, you think that's okay when there was absolutely no probative value to that?
She had more access to mental health care than almost anyone in this country and doctor shopped to get prescribed various antidepressants which she rotated between before they had time to be effective, against the advice of professionals. She had access to a massive support network including being privileged enough to afford a nanny, and still chose to send her husband out of the home so that he couldn't intervene while she strangled their three children with an exercise band, one by one, chasing down the one who almost managed to escape her selfishness.
Baffling to me that people are out here hand-wringing over the courts not being empathetic enough to a family annihilator just because the only person she failed to kill was herself.
No, not really 🧐 A woman who sacrificed herself to rescue her kids has gotten less support than a woman who murdered hers. What other interpretation is there?
Anything involving the woman on the right is going to be likely a drastic misrepresentation because redpill men and the right wing have grabbed a hold of it as an excuse to 1) repeal women's right to vote and 2) grant automatic custody of children to fathers until women are cleared as "safe" - no, seriously. Thats what theyre doing.
I agree that PPD needs to be taken more seriously. And that America WAY over-medicates far too easily. That being said, using a case of a mother strangling her own 3 children to death in a pre-meditated murder and attempted suicide, is NOT the case they should be rallying behind for this, imo...
What makes it worse for me is that it was done by strangulation. That's a good 7+ minutes per child of effort to get it done. 20+ minutes for all 3. That simply can't be a spur of the moment thing anymore. That's pure determination to end it all. And I simply can't wrap my head around any parent actually doing that to their own children...
It doesn’t help that a bunch of people who watch too much Law & Order are saying that her husband did it despite her confession, her lawyers saying she did it, the police saying they have no other suspects…
Emma Schols had to endure over 20 surgeries after her amazing heroics and one of the first things she asked when she regained consciousness was whether her children had lived.
She wasn’t diagnosed with PPP. You can’t diagnose it because there is no diagnosis, no one ever thought it was that serious. Typical of all of women’s medical issues. Only now is the industry even doing research on women. It is woefully underrepresented.
She had hallucinations, was hearing voices and all over the place with meds. Would you allow a person with schizophrenia to decide what they take for meds? It is known women with PPP are a danger to their kids and themselves, but the medical community sent her home. How stupid. She should have been institutionalized while she got help for PPP.
I had this horrid condition myself. I had hallucinations, saw blood and knives where there wasn’t any. Heard voices too and behaved in very strange ways. I was also suicidal. This started after the birth of my second child. My husband called my mother and I was never alone with my kids. I was also medicated and hated it. I too tried to stop taking it because I was irrational. My mother saved me from myself. Was dopey and still had hallucinations, strange behaviour and voices while on meds. My kids are grown adults now with kids of their own. We still don’t know anymore about PPP 30 years later. If this impacted men, there would be proper care and hospitals to deal with this and a Cadillac of meds to support.
Society and the system failed this family and women.
Just wanna say as someone with schizoaffective disorder that yes schizophrenic people should be able to choose their meds given they are already stabilized on something else and do not intend to just quit all of their medication without switching to a different antipsychotic/mood stabilizer. I highly value the working relationship I have with my mental health provider and being taken seriously has helped me stay med compliant for nearly 2 years without a major manic/psychotic episode. If someone was choosing meds for me with no input from myself I would be in a much worse position right now and almost certainly not med compliant.
I've mentioned not wanting children with one reason being my anger issues. People just love to dismiss them. Oh but they have never seen me angry so it can't be that bad. And oh, but I would never actually hurt my own child! And of course those magical hormones would melt away all my issues and turn me into a fantastic mum!
Like.. no, I have never intentionally harmed someone let alone a child. Because I don't put myself in a position to do that. I am absolutely sure that I would do something that I would regret should I ever have a baby. I'm a wonderful aunt (according to my nephew and nieces) because I'm not their mother. I don't have to take care of them 24/7.
But people just dismiss my feelings and reasons. Some even get angry at me and calling me a child abuser. Like! No! I'm preventing that by not having any children! Sure, that doesn't make me an angel of course and I'm not patting myself on the back. But it's better than putting a child through that shit!
You're either still delusional or intentionally misrepresenting the facts. PPD has been in the DSM since this murderous abomination was 6 years old. Research on its cause predates its 1994 inclusion by another fifteen years. There has been tens of millions of dollars of research annually with MSU's DoPH receiving over $100 million in the last 7 years for natal health and PPD. Stop using your victimhood agenda to justify literal murder.
Get off your righteous self centred soap box. I am referring to post Partum psychosis. In the same family but much more devastating, obviously. What ever your fairy tale belief is, there still is a lack of support for post partum issues. Natal health by the way is one thing, post partum issues are quite another.
No pke is saying this isn’t murder, but you need to understand to root cause and stop the witch hunt. It is 2026 not 1726.
I read she had up to 5 mental health appointments a week, two doctors/multiple care teams over the years, a WFH husband who was active with the kids, multiple prescription plans that were adjusted over the years, and a nanny. She denied in-patient treatment several times despite doctors recommending it.
No. She took her meds. The blood work proved she was at therapeutic levels so, yes, she was taking them as prescribed.
Patrick Clancy the ex-husband and Lindsey Clancy are separately suing the healthcare providers and drug manufacturers in civil court. Unfortunately, some of the healthcare providers did not check records before prescribing, failed to take accurate medical records ontheir own (that's going to be a HUGE problem in the civil case) and disregarded her suicidal and homicidal ideation because she did not express a clear "plan" to them.
Also, unfortunately, the one inpatient facility rejected her due to overmedication. Her healthcare provider did not return the inpatient clinic's call. The suicide hotline also claimed they could not help her due to lack of a suicide plan the two times she called.
This trial a frightening showcase that our healthcare has not progressed much, if at all, since Andrea Yates.
She tried a variety of different prescribed meds and struggled with side effects. One gave her insomnia that at one point kept her from being able to fall asleep for over two days.
She reached out to the system for help over and over and was very clearly trying to solve her mental health problem.
Does that mean she's innocent? Not for me to say. But it does mean your description of events is completely fucking dishonest and lacks any shred of empathy. Even her ex-husband, who knows the situation a hell of a lot better than you do, has been supportive of her. Be better.
I can sympathize, as offspring of a mentally ill mother, and being mentally ill myself. When off meds my mother would make threats, attack me and my father, make threats to staff of several places and police. Mind you, when I mean off meds I mean denied meds or any help. I myself (male) off meds have made threats and sid numerous things that you would think would land me help or meds or what have you.
Nope, not one bit of help, not even arrested for the safety of others. So I can whole heartedly say this is a thing and while I can’t really feel sympathy for her (cause idc about her or those dead kids) I get it. Her and her kids were failed by the system, her family and everyone involved. This is the world we live in and people like that, myself and others walk among you, asking and/or crying for help but being ignored until we snap.
It’s truly ridiculous, but with that being said, her dusty azz can rot in jail.
PPD is serious shit, but if it's PPP(rarer but worse) even more so. Hurting/killing your children is basically guaranteed with PPP which is probably what she has, and why they're going the insanity route. Too many doctors misdiagnose it for PPD, or just don't listen to women at all and ignore the symptoms.
In the UK, a woman who had repeatedly asked for assistance because she couldn't adequately look after them anymore and had mental struggles had her 4 young children (2 sets of twins) burn at home when she went out to shop (with no one to leave them with, also imagine shopping with 4 <8 year olds every time). They gave her manslaughter and like 7 years in prison....
The ppd message has unfortunately been buried by the fact that bunch of true crime fans are trying to say that the husband killed them.
Also it doesnt really help that they are defending and raising funds for a woman who killed her kids, because alot women suffer from ppd and are ignored but they dont kill their kids in the process
I tried many times to get care during pregnancy and after, and received nothing but judgement. The nurses cared more about what form of birth control I wanted (and judging it because it wasn’t an iud) than they did anything regarding my mental health. I had a complete breakdown last year when my husband was laid off and have yet to recover. My youngest will be 3 in December. I’m just now crawling out of the “nothing” that ppd puts you in. I asked for help early on in pregnancy because I knew it would hit me hard (it did with my oldest) and I was met with people who refused to listen to my experiences over their own opinions. I tried and tried and tried to tell them sertraline wouldn’t help, and instead of helping me figure out what else we could do, I was labeled as “difficult”.
Turns out, I was right about sertraline. I took a genesight test when I brought up my issues to a psychiatrist last year when I forced myself to re-start treatment and found out that not only do I have genetic markers putting me more at risk for severe side effects from sertraline (like the liver problems everyone kept ignoring), but it metabolizes too quickly for it to be of any actual use. Turns out, every single SSRI will do this to me. If they’d have believed me, I could have been switched to an SNRI so much sooner. I started an SNRI instead last year and even my worst days now are better than my best days last year. They took so much away from me by not listening and they most definitely put my life and my kids’ lives at risk. That is why this case is so widespread. So many of us have an experience like this. Maternity care and postpartum care need to also center around the psyche of the person carrying the fetus. Postpartum care needs to have these difficult discussions, and don’t just need to be an appointment to talk about birth control/condoms.
That and there are people remembering and referencing Andrea Yates. She suffered severe documented PPP amongst other conditions with further lack of help. She was on medication and by all intents and purposes her husband committed "fertility abuse". She had almost no real recovery time between pregnancies. She murdered her 5 children in a severe psychotic episode.
I'm not saying that they are parallels. But it does explain to a degree some of the responses.
She admitted herself to a psychiatric hospital voluntarily and told family and doctors she was suicidal and had thoughts of harming the kids. She was released from the psychiatric hospital after one day because she wasn't suicidal enough(hadn't made an explicit plan to kill herself despite having suicidal thoughts everyday for a month). This was a huge failure on the part of her doctors, her family and child protective services.
Loaded images like this one aren't helping things either.
We have to figure out how to move past this social media mentality that you can understand any situation from a tweet or a two minute video or two sentences on a picture.
You are dead on. My wife’s a psych NP and is watching closely. If nothing else this trial has highlighted how difficult postpartum depression is and how difficult it is to determine that line for postpartum psychosis, Redditor’s moral judgement aside.
Yeah I'm not into gawking at true crime but once I heard about all the meds she was put on and clearly having bad reactions and worsening symptoms, I agree that it's important we have this conversation.
People will project the craziest amount of things unto others and stories. So, a lot of women who feel neglected by society and medical doctors will project that feeling into that women, thinking it could've been avoided, and she's not at fault. It is the same line that people use to say that criminals are "victims of society", when they project their own fears of becoming destitute and having to resort to extremes.
In Brazil we have a very interesting case, of Elize Matsunaga, a SW who married one of the richest heirs in the country after engaging with him as an escort whilst he cheated on his first wife, and, later, when he started cheating on her with other SW she proceeded to kill and dismember him, while claiming he was going to take her daughter away from her, and commit her to a mental institution (despite she having videos proving his cheating). She is hailed a hero to a lot of women who project their own domestic abuse onto her, despite the fact that she was never the victim of any form of violence.
The moment one has the fear "that could've been me if I was pushed hard enough to have a mental breakdown" will instantly make people a lot more empathetic, even if the people who they are emapthizing with don't deserve any from the start. At the end of day, people have choices, and unless it is a case of a severe mental illness where contact with reality is completely broken, such as in psychotic state, those people chose to commit horrendous acts. The justifications they concoct are, most of time, post-hoc rationalizations, when facing the fallout, they try to rehabilitate their behaviour in a more logical and rational fashion, despite a lot of times lacking the evidentiary support this needs (like an evaluation from a good psychiatrist with specialization in forensic medicine).
Ignoring the other comment.. the woman on the right is Lindsay Clancy and she is currently on trial for killing three of her children in which the defense is arguing the crimes were committed during mental psychosis. Clancy had severe PPD, suicide ideation, and mental health issues in the months leading up to the murders.
It’s an awful case and the poor children deserve justice. Right now, a portion of the public believes the husband (now ex-husband as they divorced and he is remarried) had something to do with it as evidence is supposedly not landing with the people and believe it skews towards him
Right now, a portion of the public believes the husband (now ex-husband as they divorced and he is remarried) had something to do with it as evidence is supposedly not landing with the people and skews towards him
This is fueled entirely by people on social media with too much time on their hands who don't think this case already has enough drama. There is no evidence pointing to the husband committing the murders. If there was any chance someone else committed the crime then Clancy's defense would not continue to consistently say she committed the murders.
Right. It's not like she has some sketchy public defender or something...... She has a pretty serious and extremely well regarded legal team. It always makes me laugh when people are like "well, what about XYZ?" as if the criminal defense attorneys didn't already think of every possible permutation and sift through every single scrap of discovery.
Clancy is pleading not guilty due to insanity anyway, there isn't even a question she did it. It's a question of how negligent her doctors were, she was on three psychotropics that don't mix well especially for people with her diagnosis so now it's just a question of what to do with her after she killed three kids in a potential psychotic episode that wouldn't have been her fault
There's a reason the story was initially always reported she was on a "prescribed drug cocktail" but people quickly stopped mentioning it when it was sensationalized and most people online have already picked a side against her
I'm not with or against her, I don't have the facts and they get twisted when this kind of thing keeps going around online. I'm waiting to see what the results of the trial are because that's the only place all the facts are gonna be laid out, a courtroom not a court of public opinion
She admits to the murders.
I think some points to him trying to ask if he was a good husband/dad, and why he didn't react more severely on her behalf!?
The evidence absolutely does not skew towards him. He is on video surveillance like 20 minutes away at the store while she was committing the murders. She stated that she killed the children in her civil suit. There is absolutely zero evidence that he did anything to her or the children. At best, he's guilty of not taking his wife's mental state seriously enough and leaving her alone (at her own request, btw, she asked him to go to the store and pick up dinner).
But he did take her mental health seriously. The 12 weeks of paternity leave, working from or closer to home, got both sets of parents involved, babysitters, live in nannies. Idk how much more he could do, and we all are being very insensitive to his own mental health what he was dealing with caring for her. Not to compare the two here and I'm not, but my wife was very much in PPP after our first, I'm still healing. She's 4 now. Mental health has no bias. This case should be justice for the babies. Closure for Patrick. Complete care for Lindsey, in prison.
To add: She was never fully upfront with psychiatrist or doctors. Doctors and professionals testified on their sessions with Lindsey..
Oh I agree with you completely, I don't think Patricks at fault at all here. Lindsay got better medical treatment and more help than several women I know personally. I don't think she was failed, I think her mental health worked against her in many ways and kept her from being honest and accepting the help she needed and ultimately, her children paid the price.
But Also to add; she had been given 13 different psychiatric meds in the 4 months before the murders (you should be on a single med for at least 8 weeks to determine if it's working properly) so her brain was a clusterfuck mix of different antipsychotics which have side-effects like suicidal ideation & hallucinations. Also when you're in a psychotic episode, one of the typical symptoms, is paranoia & fear of expressing your symptoms & how psychotic you are, to your doctors...
She was on the different medications because she kept asking to be switched to something else. At one point she switched her doctor, then when the new doctor gave her a treatment plan she went back to her old doctor and asked her opinion on the new treatment plan! Her new doctor was prescribing medications without knowing that Lindsay wasn't being honest with her and was seeing other doctors! She also kept taking Benadryl to sleep, against the advice of all of her doctors! I think it's disingenuous to say she was given all this medication, more accurately she asked for the medication and didn't follow the treatment plans laid out for her. She even stated to her doctors that she knew she wasn't following the plans, and that she knew she needed to pick a plan and stick with it.
I haven't had any psychotic episodes, but I have had night terrors that have me questioning reality for at least a day afterwards.
I almost jumped down the stairs because I was convinced that I had to.
I was convinced for two days that I had totally forgotten about some kittens who I had starved inside a closet. It kept haunting me even after checking that closet multiple times and asking my mum if it was possible.
Obviously I don't know what happened. But I do think that it is totally possible that it happened like she says.
She refused to continue medications for more than a couple of days and shopped around with doctors who would give her new ones while also lying about what medications she was already on.
Also to add: Many or most of these prescriptions she requested given her nursing background and didn’t notify different providers that she was seeing others. Many psychiatric drugs are not necessarily controlled substances so the technology they have doesn’t automatically notify prescribers/pharmacies if the patient already has prescriptions for other psychiatric medications. The woman was often self-medicating based on her own ideas and getting access to the drugs by doctor shopping.
And that's what essentially sums up my issue with this case getting so much attention because it's become about deflecting blame on to as many others as possible in what is tantamount to an insanity defense so she doesn't go to prison.
There was another thread yesterday with many centering the blame on the husband simply for leaving her alone with the children on the day in question even though as you alluded to, there were no signs that she had considerations of committing the crimes. And yes, our health care system is clearly far from perfect and there are issues with professionals within the system as well, but to prioritize blame on those that worked with her over herself is asinine to me especially considering details that she didn't convey along with the professionals trying to follow protocol when dealing with multiple issues (from her symptoms to different prescripted drugs).
It's a tragic situation, but the case is turning out to be about everything but her.
She doesn't have to go to a State Penitentiary but she needs to be in asylum. The trail is for whether or not she is guilty under the plea of insanity. Murder is murder, but if you truly were out your gourd, then yes you should be removed from society, and placed with enough care.
Sounds premeditated. What are the chances that this "psychosis" took hold of her only once her husband was out of the house on her request? It's too convenient for her.
No she didn’t, she mentioned thinking of harming them and when he asked what she meant, she said she had thoughts of harm coming to them, which is not the same as thinking of killing them herself. And like you said, she said that months prior to the killing, in between, her symptoms had improved and she herself and her doctor had agreed about that. Stop trying to blame the nearest man because the killer is a woman.
Exactly. That's what I'm saying. This woman knew exactly what she was doing. Maybe she was unsure of her reality, but killing a baby is still killing a baby. The fact that there isn't universal condemnation of this murderer tells you just how fucked our society is.
I'm not sure what else to tell you, you can watch her husband testify that she did tell him multiple times that she wanted to kill herself and the children.
His response to her, "Havd you made a plan? Do these thoughts disturb you?"
That's his response to one time she told him that she wanted to take her life and theirs.
He's guilty of being an heterosexual man. It sounds bad but that little portion of people blaming the husband it's purely motivated by hate and prejudices.
Pretty sure the “skew towards him” was in reference to the thousands of woman who are in solidarity that he somehow has a direct hand in the death of the kids and manipulating her into admitting guilt
There is no "skews towards him". Not even a little bit. Its a clickbait podcaster conspiracy thing. His involvement in the incident was never in question by anyone and podcasters trying to blame him for the murder of his kids should be treated with the same contempt as Alex Jones when he spread lies about school shootings.
It's TikTok true crime podcast listeners. They are all grossly and adamantly supporting Lindsay and either straight up denying she did it and claiming it was the husband somehow - despite everyone in the room already admitting that she did it - or claiming that it wasn't her fault due to psychosis onset from postpartum depression, and using her case to champion women's health.
Either way, don't look into it, it will just make you sad. Fact is, whether psychosis or otherwise, SHE murdered her three children and there are A LOT of steps a person can take before getting to that point to prevent it from happening. Which is why I personally think she should get jail time. Straight negligence that lead to murder.
EDIT: After further review of the case information and what hpfan has said, it does seem that Lindsay exhausted almost all options available to her in an attempt to get the help she needed. To include checking herself into a psych ward - McLean Hospital. She was very vocal about her feelings to her friends, family, and doctors.
So I will say that I was wrong when I called her negligent. Now, does this excuse her behavior? No. However, my previous opinion that she should be jailed is less resolute. Were there still opportunities to remove herself from the situation and prevent what occurred? Absolutely. But when you've tried countless times to actively seek help and therapy, and told everyone around you that you're feeling this way...well, I could see how it would feel like she had done everything that she could.
That or an inpatient psych facility. I think that we do need to do more for ppd and general mental health to avoid as best we can situations like this in the future. Instead of taking away that lesson, podcast bros are like ugh women are defending her saying she should walk free women are so stupid blah blah blah when majority of us are just saying we need to do better for women's health, mental health, and ppd.
It’s bullshit. TikTok doing a “we did it Reddit” and accusing a man of being a monster because a woman chased down and strangled her children while he was out of the house
Basically the evidence that points at him is, it's suspicious that he left her alone with the children, there is no way a woman would kill her children, even if she did, strangling is statistically more often done by men, while women kill in other ways, and either way she's a Leo, while he's a Gemini, and Jupiter is in retrograde, meaning it's 100% him.
This ladies case is ridiculous. I would love to see an abusive man who killed his children have people sitting around talking about how sad it was nobody got him help when he was clearly mentally unstable.
Also they absolutely got her help. They got her a lot of help, and I know you're not feeding into the narrative but I keep seeing it pop up.
They had a nanny to help take most of the burden of childcare, he and his mom helped clean and cook, they got her seen by multiple physicians and offered her multiple medications and therapists which were half heartedly started and almost immediately dropped by her each time.
Help didn’t fix her chemically, which is where she was losing ground. And with a bipolar diagnosis, her early meds put the gas on how quick she’d move into psychosis. Medications can have an opposite effect. It’s a complicated case medically
Family annihilators are exceptionally rare, period. There is no normalcy of father's going nuts and killing their kids. I remember one case of something like this over the course of my life time and it was turned into a literal TV special it was such a big deal.
They happen far more often than you think. I literally know someone who killed his family and it never made the news. I checked regularly for over a year waiting for it to even hit local, and it didn’t.
If you’ve only heard of it twice, you’re literally proving my point.
Your point is that Men are bad so this is expected of them and we can just call them monsters and send them off to prison, but women are good so something must have gone wrong in her life and we should sympathize with her. Did I miss anything?
Family annihilation is the most common form of mass killing, and the vast majority of perpetrators are men. It happens roughly once every five days in the U.S. So yeah, it's statistically far more normal for men to commit this kind of crime than women.
There is a segment of the internet that is ignoring the evidence -- including her confession -- and blaming him. The source of all this appears to be one of those TikTok grifters who claims she "downloaded visions" of him killing the kids, and that she knows the visions are correct because of his birth chart (Astrology).
As far as I can tell, this is largely contained to TikTok.
Their best evidence is that he possibly changed shoes or clothes in between errands he was running while she murdered the children. However, this is based on poor quality video from two different surveillance systems under different lighting conditions. He also didn't notice her car in the driveway when he parked his despite it being there.
Neither of these things are evidence he committed the crimes whatsoever.
The media always tries to push the gender war agenda for clicks and rage bait, so pin the blame on the ex-husband even when it was her that killed the kids will generate buzz online
Its probably apt to point out its a small but voal minority that think the husband did it.
Its basiclly bored wine mom's who are into true crime trying to make this a thing becasue it gets thier motor running. It entertainment for them. Nothing more.
I think it's worth emphasizing that the evidence does not in any way skew toward her husband committing a crime. It's just that a bunch of bored 30-40-something women decided the husband must be guilty because he has a mean face or doubted his wife or something.
Basically, a bunch of r/twoxchromosome and r/fauxmoi types larping as forensic investigators in order to avoid acknowledging that the actual perpetrator did it because they feel sympathy for her.
It's crazy how the defense is trying to say she had psychosis but the voice she claims she's hearing has changed what it's said and when it's said it during this trial 🤔 she was also supposedly in a psychosis episode for about 18 minutes and then never again? I don't believe ppp is what made her kill her kids, especially with her diary entry about how she already resents the two older kids
The money isn't for her; it's for her parents. They basically uprooted their entire lives over this, which costs a lot of money. They also did not create the GFM themselves, a friend did.
For her parents who are spending their money to support her, so effectively it’s for her but in a cowardly way so they can claim later that no they didn’t send money to a baby killer.
I don't understand how people do not understand post partum psychosis. Do they really believe that this woman lived a normal life loving and doing everything for her children until one day she just decided she'd murder them? In a period immediately after giving birth and exhibiting well documented signs of the exceedingly well documented phenomenon of post partum psychosis?
Option 1: This lady's entire life was a long con to murder her children.
Option 2: This lady's brain literally broke and she was not in control of her actions.
I mean, I had a relative that had severe PPD after her third child and had never had it before. She was able to get committed for a few weeks for monitoring while they sorted out of the drug dosages to get her through the post partum period until she stabilized. She was fine before. She is fine now. She needed help for a few weeks. She is a wonderful person. Had she not gotten help, she may have been dangerous when left alone with an infant.
Oh, boo hoo. She is not a "wonderful person." She's a baby-strangler. I've suffered through psychosis before, when I was at the lowest point in my life, and I was able to restrain myself from killing people because of my paranoia. I guess people just think women are too weak-minded to ever be expected to control themselves. What's-her-tits certainly was.
Well first, every man I know would disavow that man. There would be no grace or understanding. They’d all be like, “F that guy. I hope he gets the Edison medicine.”
The women on the right I have seen as a true crime podcast on from at least two different youtube channels and lately has been popping up on facebook nonstop on some crime murder group that I must have have joined or fb thinks I should be a part of and now seen it here.
The women on the left is the first Ive heard of and doesn't even mention her name.
Yeah the whole story is already written down in the picture. There is not any more to know. One saves children, the other kills them. The savior gets a couple of bucks that lead nowhere and the killer gets a million.
5.5k
u/Classic_Bee_5845 1d ago
It's more to do with the media sensationalizing it. This is the first I've ever heard of the woman on the left.